GAS CAP

[Bob Denman]

Joy,
Thanks for the update!
Have they got any idea what is causing this?

[Yazz]

Joy,
Thanks for the update!
Have they got any idea what is causing this?

Not at this point. Never look a gift horse in the mouth...

The locks are on order and when the job is done, will grill the dealer guys about what the problem is.

[Lamonster]

I think I have a fix for this and I should have the prototype this week.
For now if you spray WD40 around the rubber and spring it will help. that rubber gasket pushes in and I think that's where it's hanging up.

[OJ UK]

I smeared good 'ol Vaseline Petroleum Jelly sparingly over the rubber seal and sprayed silicone into the gas cap mechanism.
I agree with Lamont that the rubber seal is "picking up" on the filler tube preventing the cap from latching.

[lou49]

Got a update from our dealer...

BRP is going to replace the gas lock and the ignition lock, so the F3 will need only one key.

Sorry to hear about all your troubles! But at the same time it gives me more reason to keep my rt!
The f3 is a gorgeous looking bike though!

[Yazz]

Sorry to hear about all your troubles! But at the same time it gives me more reason to keep my rt!
The f3 is a gorgeous looking bike though!

The RT is a great Spyder. Enjoy! Each new Spyder model that's introduced is going to have quirks to get ironed out. Funky gas locks is small potatoes compared to other problems that have happened. I feel lucky and blessed with my F3 and GS.

Have my F3 back home with the two new locks installed. Cost to me? Nada!

Tried both keys opening the gas cap and turning on the F3. All worked well and the gas cap lock mechanism is smoother, but you still have to give that two-handed push to get the cap closed.

Thank you Wild West crew and BRP for helping out!

[SpyderGTL]

I think I have a fix for this and I should have the prototype this week.
For now if you spray WD40 around the rubber and spring it will help. that rubber gasket pushes in and I think that's where it's hanging up.

Lamont - do you think this improved the latching of the gas cap over time? We dropped off my F3-S for a new tire and the seat post recall today and the wife had the 3,000 mile service done today on her F3-T. She noticed her gas cap being difficult to close a few times last week during a trip to the Smoky Mountains. After dropping my Spyder off at a dealer 80 miles from our house this afternoon, we stopped and filled up her Spyder. We struggled for 10+ minutes getting her gas cap closed. A guy at the next gas pump was curious to know what we were trying to do. He then started Googling the F3 gas cap issue... I could only get it to latch after using my Butler mug to give me some leverage on forcing the cap closed. She's now very worried about riding by herself, concerned she could run into a similar situation. I've had several instances where it was difficult to get the cap to latch on my F3-S as well, but none this bad/difficult. I'll give the WD40 a try - was just curious if you thought it was a long term solution. Thanks!

[Mike,P]

I think I have a fix for this and I should have the prototype this week.
For now if you spray WD40 around the rubber and spring it will help. that rubber gasket pushes in and I think that's where it's hanging up.

I used a Teflon lubricant in the key hole / A couple of spriztes n it's been fine..

[GaryTheBadger]

Lamont - Rhetorical question: Why are you working on a fix for a BRP design issue, especially if your fix results in something we have to buy? Can you and Len use your factory connections to encourage them to resolve this properly?

[BLUEZL600EFI]

I think I have a fix for this and I should have the prototype this week.
For now if you spray WD40 around the rubber and spring it will help. that rubber gasket pushes in and I think that's where it's hanging up.

You should use a silicone based lubricant.
WD-40 is a solvent and dissolves rubber o-rings, I assume the one in the cap is impermeable to fuel but WD will "eat" most rubber and silicone over time even if then are made resistant to them.

I used liquid silicone and it helped a lot.

[Darren111]

I think I have a fix for this and I should have the prototype this week.
For now if you spray WD40 around the rubber and spring it will help. that rubber gasket pushes in and I think that's where it's hanging up.

WD40 was the way forward for me. A few months ago sprayed a little WD40 around the rubber and since then haven't had a problem closing fuel cap it.

[SpyderGTL]

As a design engineer (fighter aircraft), it seems to me that the gas cap mechanism has a minor design flaw or too tight of a tolerance build up (or both). On the surface, it seems like a functional design - rubber gasket cap combination compresses on the top of the fill tube and the beveled tab in the cap center post locks into a slot on the fill tube when pushed deep enough into the fill tube. (See the pictures below)

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The issue is getting the beveled tab deep enough into the fill tube to engage the slot in the tube. To do this, the gasket cap combination slides up a center post, compressing an internal spring, best I can tell.

image.jpg


image.jpg


While that's pretty straight-forward, the issue seems to me to be that the action to close the gas cap and compress the gasket cap combination on top of the filler tube so that the center post with the beveled tab will drive deeper into the tube and engage the slot isn't straight-forward. What's required is a straight push on the gas cap, in line with the center of the gas cap mechanism and center post. What you're really doing when pushing on the back edge of the gas cap is applying a rotational force, rather than an axial push, since this gas cap assembly is pivoting about its hinge. It's pretty darn close to a straight axial push, but close doesn't seem to work all that well here all of the time. I suspect that since the rotational action on the gas cap results in both the axial force, which is what you need to slide the gasket cap combo up its axis (or conversely, drive the center post down its center axis), and a small side force, the small side force is what is preventing the gasket cap combo from sliding as much as it needs to. With a close-tolerance mechanism, which is what you want when sealing a gas tank, I think that any friction between the gasket cap combo and its center post is causing binding, preventing the center post with the beveled tab from driving deep enough into the tube to engage the slot, which allows you to turn and remove the key. Any rotational force on the gasket cap combo perpendicular to the center axis and the desired direction of travel will inherently cause some binding. I think that's the minor flaw in the design, considering the needed close tolerances between the gasket cap combo and its center post to seal the gas tank. Note that when I refer to the center post, that center post isn't a simple round shape or rectangular shape. There appear to be numerous elements and shapes comprising that center piece, providing many different surfaces about which it could bind.

Based on others recommendations, I sprayed some lubricant around the center post area that is exposed when you compress the gasket cap combo as shown in the fourth picture. Hopefully, this alleviates some of the friction induced by the rotation when pressing on the back edge of the gas cap to get it to close. After doing that, it did feel like it closed a bit easier, but I suspect this isn't a permanent solution. I imagine that I'll periodically have to lube it. In the mean time, I hope it works well enough that my wife is no longer concerned about riding her Spyder alone. I think she has a legitimate concern about not being able to close the gas cap when on her own at some remote/random gas station.

I looked at this design a bit more critically, as an engineer, when it took me the better part of 15 minutes to get the gas cap closed on my wife's newish (3,100 miles) F3-T and considering the fact that the effort required to close the gas cap was nowhere near consistent on both of our F3's. Anyway, my two cents as a design engineer of nearly 35 years... This and lots of spare change will get you a cup of coffee!

[Peter Aawen]

....., until I've reached my " Oh, !" point!

That's when you use 'The Ultimate Solution'..... you get a bigger hammer & apply repeatedly until the gas cap is shut!! (or was that 'shot'??? ) Oh well, either way!

[Wildrice]

I had a franchised auto repair business for 7 yrs too long. If anyone ever puts oil in the brake fluid reservoir the end result with be the rubber parts swelling and deforming after a month or more. Brake fluid on the rubber would be the best--but--the problem with brake fluid is that it is a paint eater---thus I suggest the laying down a circular protective barrier around the gas cap opening should a few drops overshoot the gas seal rubber.

[BeRight]

This is what I use:

DuPont Silicone Lubricant with Teflon Fluoropolymer waterproofs, protects, lubricates and preserves rubber, plastic, vinyl, leather, metal and wood. This silicone-rich formula is a great all-purpose lubricant around the home, shop and worksite. Use on treadmills, sliding parts, windows, doors, rubber door gaskets and much more. Formulated with Teflon fluoropolymer to outperform other Silicone Sprays in terms of longer lubricant life, enhanced wear protection, better high and low temperature range and increased resistance to water. Performs in extreme temps from -40-Degree F (-40-Degree C) to 400-Degree F (204-Degree C).

[Wildrice]

Mea Culpa .. Mea Culpa #1. I only look at " What's New "..........#2. He doesn't provide any info about His Spyder, not even on His Bio page.............#3. I try to spread Knowledge everywhere I can ......Mike

That reply by Mike was the worse possible mistake I have ever seen in my entire life---I'm considering erecting a freeway billboard to share this grievous act with the rest of the world.... Well--now--that thought has passed --on to the weather report..
Darrell