Dead Spyder

[jthornton]

My Spyder died on the I-310 bridge yesterday... here are all the symptoms I can remember. First sign of trouble I put it in reverse backed up a bit then it didn't go back into gear, no clunk nothing... then I gave it a bit of gas and got a clunk and it was in gear. I rode the rest of the day with no issues. Sunday morning I came to a stop light and the clutch didn't disengage fully and it was pulling so I put it in neutral and a bit of smoke came out the right side. The oil can came on so I stopped a few hundred yards later and added a bit of oil and checked it was full. Started up the bridge and the oil can came back on and so did limp mode. I had to keep going as the bridge was under destruction and no place to pull off. I finally limped to the other side and was not sounding good by the time I stopped. While waiting for the rescue team to arrive we tried to push it back some to give them a place to pull off in front but it was very hard to push and it was in neutral and the parking brake was off and I checked it to be sure.

Edit: I forgot one important detail, the oil tank was full to the top when I checked after crossing the bridge.

JT

[Bob Denman]

Since it wasn't, "sounding good"; this isn't just an electrical sensor thing going on...
I'm just guessing right now; but I'd take a look at the oil pump.
That would obviously impact the engine and transmission...
Please let us know what you find, and Good Luck!

[Tango]

Not what I expected to read first thing in the morning. No oil pressure? Pump? Glad you weren't injured being on an interstate. Hope you have a good dealer to diagnose the problem. Tom

[Tango]

Bob you beat me to it. We must have been linked by mental telepathy. Tom

[Bob Denman]

Tom, Were that the case; I'd feel really bad for what you have to suffer through...

JT... Any other indications as to what might have happened?

[jthornton]

Tom, Were that the case; I'd feel really bad for what you have to suffer through...

JT... Any other indications as to what might have happened?

At this point I suspect a clog or something restricting the suction of the oil pump, or the oil pump itself failed. See the edit above about the oil tank being full to the top.

I purchased the RT on 2-21-13 so I suspect the warranty is gone and I didn't get the extended warranty so this one is up to me to fix. I do have a good dealer about 75 miles away and an untested dealer here in town.

JT

[IGETAROUND]

OMG, JT I'm feeling your pain, hope this turns out to be something minor; keep us posted as you can.

Al

[Chupaca]

From the last footnote I would say that the return from the oil tank is blocked for some reason. The oil light indicating an oil pressure issue from lack of oil which is now all in the tank and not flowing back to the engine. Have you cleaned the filter screen in the tank..?? I would start there pump seems to be pumping or the tank would be low. Smoke may be from the overflow on the oil tank....

[jthornton]

From the last footnote I would say that the return from the oil tank is blocked for some reason. The oil light indicating an oil pressure issue from lack of oil which is now all in the tank and not flowing back to the engine. Have you cleaned the filter screen in the tank..?? I would start there pump seems to be pumping or the tank would be low. Smoke may be from the overflow on the oil tank....

That sounds logical to me. I assumed the oil pump sucked from the tank by the pressure pump and a scavenging pump emptied the crankcase. Just doing a quick look at the service manual I see the scavenging pump and oil pump in the motor as well as the tank screen. The Spyder is still down on the Bayou, I'll make the 1160 mile round robin road trip tomorrow to retrieve the sick Spyder.

[Chupaca]

First motor I have had with the outside oil tank so not that familiar with it but from the oil measuring system I would say a good part of it is gravity. The screen is very fine mesh . When you get to her next re check the level and if it is down you can confirm...long drive be safe

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

[Lew L]

Good luck and save traveling. Hope this is an easy fix and no permanant damage.

Kaos

[Ex-Rocket]

JT, If you need any help I'm free and can get you if needed. Just let me know.

[Frank G]

My thought process thinks that a clutch plate disintegrated, plugged the oil system which caused oil starvation and more than likely messed up the motor bearings and other components.

Wish you the best of luck, I'm in the same boat you are, without warrentee, just crossed fingers.

By the way, I continuously see salvaged motors on e-bay, might be the cheapest way out.

[billybovine]

I assume you have a RT, 998 engine, SE5 model. Please correct me if any details are not correct.

When you say the oil tank was full to the top. Do you mean to the full mark on the dipstick or overfull to the top of the tank?

Low engine oil pressure can be caused by a blocked oil filter or screen. Leak in the suction line, sucking air. A large internal oil leak. The composite drive gears to the oil pump failed. Rare but has happened. You have already ruled out low oil level.

Smoke on the right side may point to an external oil leak but it can't be very big. I find that symptom curious.

Also I find curious is the shifting and clutch symptoms. The HCM does use engine oil to shift gears and operate the clutch. But it is a separate system with it's own oil pump.

Sorry this happened. Please keep us informed how this turns out.

[IGETAROUND]

For WIW; from the maintenance manual for cleaning of the oil tank strainer: clean and inspect every 14,000 miles or two years.

Hope that this was not the proximate cause of your breakdown.

Al

[Snowbelt Spyder]

That sounds logical to me. I assumed the oil pump sucked from the tank by the pressure pump and a scavenging pump emptied the crankcase. Just doing a quick look at the service manual I see the scavenging pump and oil pump in the motor as well as the tank screen. The Spyder is still down on the Bayou, I'll make the 1160 mile round robin road trip tomorrow to retrieve the sick Spyder.

Well, this sucks.

I believe you have the correct idea of the functions of the pressure pump and the scavenging pump. Since you have a service manual, take a look at the section on the SE5 clutch. The clutch is kinda like two subassemblies. A pressure plate - friction plate section that is operated by a piston with oil pressure from the HCM, and a centrifugal clutch section. As you described this problem, it seemed as though the centrifugal clutch operation was the first indication that something was wrong. And so at this point, who knows what disintegrated clutch parts started getting pumped around in your oil system. The clutch cover and oil line to the clutch piston is on the right hand side of the motor. Possible source of the smoke. Perhaps both filters are clogged as well.

[ARtraveler]

I cannot offer any more mechanical advice other than what has been posted above.

Let us know how this plays out. Good information to know.

[jthornton]

JT, If you need any help I'm free and can get you if needed. Just let me know.

Thanks for the offer, my buddy is retired and is free so I'm picking him up to help with the driving (all I had to do was buy him lunch today). We leave at 3am for Raceland.

JT

[jthornton]

For WIW; from the maintenance manual for cleaning of the oil tank strainer: clean and inspect every 14,000 miles or two years.

Hope that this was not the proximate cause of your breakdown.

Al

I had not quite reached the 14k mark but would have been close enough for the service when I returned from Raceland.

JT

[jthornton]

Well, this sucks.

I believe you have the correct idea of the functions of the pressure pump and the scavenging pump. Since you have a service manual, take a look at the section on the SE5 clutch. The clutch is kinda like two subassemblies. A pressure plate - friction plate section that is operated by a piston with oil pressure from the HCM, and a centrifugal clutch section. As you described this problem, it seemed as though the centrifugal clutch operation was the first indication that something was wrong. And so at this point, who knows what disintegrated clutch parts started getting pumped around in your oil system. The clutch cover and oil line to the clutch piston is on the right hand side of the motor. Possible source of the smoke. Perhaps both filters are clogged as well.

The smoke seemed more like a bit of oil hit one of the exhaust pipes as it didn't last long.

JT

[Vidman]

Hey Cuz,

Sorry to hear this. I think you are going about it correctly. First thing I would check is the filter/screen for clogging. Here's hoping it's that simple/cheap. Good luck.

Chuck

[oldguyinTX]

It can't hurt to try and get a "goodwill gesture" from BRP to get this fixed at no cost to you. They have been known to do this in the past for repairs on Spyders that are out of warranty. As my dad always said, "You can't get what you don't ask for". Good luck to you.

[Bob Denman]

it cant' hurt to ask; Good luck!!

[jtpollock]

I feel your pain! but you don't have enough miles to be having problems,
these things are just full of bug's sorry to here hope all works out.... jtpollock

[spyderCodes]

Here's hoping that it's just an oil screen clog that can be remedied quickly.
And I am keeping good thoughts.

However I doubt it.
The low pressure (oil can) screen has a really low threshold due to the value of oil pressure switch.
I think it's on the order of 5 to 8 psi which basically means if there is that little oil pressure by the time you see it and react it's game over.
It's difficult for me to see how the oil screen could be clogged with only 14K on the clock.
I 'm sure it has had at least one oil change(probably 3).
So, that leaves the oil pump going south.
But a bad oil pump doesn't really explain the full oil tank either.
It sounds like the pickup from the tank was blocked somewhere in the line.
There is a rubber hose that connects the oil tank to the engine and that might have been kinked or obstructed.
All of the above causes really suck.