GUN CONTROL,,, lets see if we can discuss this w/o me pulling the post

[Gray Ghost]

Two points that are usually brought up when gun control is spoken of in terms of background checks, the so called gun show loophole and online sales.

In most states I am aware of, when you purchase a weapon at a gun show from someone who makes a certain percentage of their income from gun sales they are required by federal law to perform a background check before completing the sale. Private sellers are not required to do that. The point of concern with some proposed legislation is that anyone transferring a weapon to any other individual would be required to perform a background check. That would apply to loaning a hunting rifle to a relative or neighbor.

Online sales are often presented as being a problem. The rules are that I could sell a weapon to someone in my own state and ship it to them without having to go through to background check process. If I want to sell one to someone in a different state I have to ship it to a federally licensed person, usually a dealer, and the person can pick it up once they have passed a background check performed by the licensed person. If I want to buy a weapon from an online dealer they have to ship it to a licensed person and I pick it up from them after passing a background check. So the only way you can purchase a weapon online without having to go through a background check is to purchase it within the same state from a non-licensed person.

[MMMII]

Some politicians said we need guns and arm our self to protect us. So far these ideas have not work for centuries in Israel. Maybe we don't need guns so far Love is all we need. All We Need is LOVE (BEATLES).

Peace to all and May we all have loving Holiday season.

The Beatles also said that 'happiness is a warm gun'.

Happy Non-denominational December Celebration(s).

[DR Buck]

"....... the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."


And if you find this is confusing, here is what it means :

INFRINGE : act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on. "his legal rights were being infringed"
synonyms: restrict, limit, curb, check, encroach on; undermine, erode, diminish, weaken, impair, damage, compromise. ....


By definition ALL gun laws are a constitutional violation.

[Bob Denman]

So You Think You Know the Second Amendment?
http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-...cond-amendment

This is a very tired and incorrect argument.
When the Bill of Rights was being written; the people were the Militia...
And this argument has been upheld in Court.

Every other one of those Rights was an Individual's right...
Why would the Second Amendment be a collective right?

[Mcubed45]

Just as the first amendment does not give you the right to yell "fire" in a crowded theater or slander your neighbor, the second amendment should not allow those with known terrorist ties, mental deficiency, or criminal history the right to buy guns openly and legally. Background checks and more attention to mental health should be at the forefront of gun control.

then, we, as citizens have a duty to speak up when anyone starts making noises or taking actions that endanger the community as a whole. I also think that those without the right to have a gun who get caught with a gun should spend a very long time in custody of the state.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

how about since we won't get rid of legal guns we actually make laws the help eliminate illegal guns. life in prison without parole. perhaps if you use a gun while
committing a crime life in prison without parole in solitary no exceptions & selling a gun illegally(straw) is treated the same.

[Orange Spyder Man]

Gun control ... is putting 2 shots 1" apart directly in the heart !!

osm

[Bob Denman]

An entire inch apart?
I'd say that you missed, with your second shot...

[TommyBwell]

how about since we won't get rid of legal guns we actually make laws the help eliminate illegal guns. life in prison without parole. perhaps if you use a gun while
committing a crime life in prison without parole in solitary no exceptions & selling a gun illegally(straw) is treated the same.

That is so funny, you never hear about doing anything about the illegal guns, just the legal ones. Very good point.

[PrairieSpyder]

how about since we won't get rid of legal guns we actually make laws the help eliminate illegal guns. life in prison without parole. perhaps if you use a gun while
committing a crime life in prison without parole in solitary no exceptions & selling a gun illegally(straw) is treated the same.

There already are laws against illegal guns. That's how they're known as "illegal". They just need to be enforced.

[ES44AC]

This is a very tired and incorrect argument.
When the Bill of Rights was being written; the people were the Militia...
And this argument has been upheld in Court.

Every other one of those Rights was an Individual's right...
Why would the Second Amendment be a collective right?

Rock on Bob !


Gun control advocates can never get the reality that criminals will ALWAYS have a gun ,because they don't care if they break the law or not.

[flaggerphil]

I have no problem with gun ownership, but this thought crossed my mind the other day...

I lived in New Orleans when I was in junior high and high school. New Orleans then had a thriving organized crime operation...even though old J. Edgar said there was no organized crime in the U.S. But that's another story.

Anyway, I took creative writing in school and on one assignment wrote a kind of Steven King story about a guy who was in a department store and picked up an item that had a sign that read "do not touch." As soon as he picked it up he fell through a trap door into a spooky basement where he was attacked by some kind of mutant monster (remember, I was 16). He saved himself by pulling out his trusty .38 revolver and shooting the monster, before escaping though a back door.

I got a "C" on the story. You know why? Because my teacher said "regular people don't carry guns as a matter of course." And other kids and adults said it was crazy that someone would just be carrying a gun around like it was normal. This was in 1967...in a New Orleans that was quite a bit wilder than it is now.

Before then I also lived in Seattle, Utah, Delaware, and Alabama. In all those places many people had long guns as a matter of course. But carrying hand guns was not considered "normal."

You can take that as you wish...

[PrairieSpyder]

I have no problem with gun ownership, but this thought crossed my mind the other day...

I lived in New Orleans when I was in junior high and high school. New Orleans then had a thriving organized crime operation...even though old J. Edgar said there was no organized crime in the U.S. But that's another story.

Anyway, I took creative writing in school and on one assignment wrote a kind of Steven King story about a guy who was in a department store and picked up an item that had a sign that read "do not touch." As soon as he picked it up he fell through a trap door into a spooky basement where he was attacked by some kind of mutant monster (remember, I was 16). He saved himself by pulling out his trusty .38 revolver and shooting the monster, before escaping though a back door.

I got a "C" on the story. You know why? Because my teacher said "regular people don't carry guns as a matter of course." And other kids and adults said it was crazy that someone would just be carrying a gun around like it was normal. This was in 1967...in a New Orleans that was quite a bit wilder than it is now.

Before then I also lived in Seattle, Utah, Delaware, and Alabama. In all those places many people had long guns as a matter of course. But carrying hand guns was not considered "normal."

You can take that as you wish...

When I was younger, I knew of lots of people who carried weapons. I don't know what the laws were then, but I know people did it. Once the cops were chasing a guy and one of them came into the bar where the local folks hung out (as opposed to the bars frequented by the GIs in this army town), and asked my brother if he was "packing" and to come help them. (Our police force was a lot smaller then.)

Also, when I was a kid there was a "boys gun club" at the police station shooting range in the basement of the municipal building. You'd see boys about 8-12 years old walking through town carrying a .22 rifle and a box of ammo to go shoot.

It seems odd to me that people are so alarmed by the sight of any kind of gun.

[Bob Denman]

I live 8 miles from a Medium Security State Prison, and 15 miles from a Maximum Security Prison...
A while back; there was an escape from the "Max..."
The escapee made the mistake of trying to break into a house just outside of Town...
...and took six rounds in his chest; ending his exciting time on the run!

The Homeowner was just a regular guy, with no ties to Law Enforcement.
When the word got out that there had been an escape; he did what he thought was the reasonable thing to do: he armed himself.
End of Story...

[bmccaffrey]

That's funny u bring that up

When i was in junior high i belong to a rifle club and we would shoot in the basement.

Nobody thought about using the gun on students.

We also had religous ed classes back then that u attended during regular school hrs.

Is it the gun or LACK OF RESPECT FOR LIFE ITSELF

[Bob Denman]

We had a rifle range underneath the stage in the auditorium...

[SmoovOpRatoR]

Here in Canada we have guns, lots of them, regular bolt action rifles from. 22 up to 50BMG. Semi Auto rifles, shotguns both pump and semi auto, as well as hand guns, revolvers, semi autos, and of course "assault rifles" AR15, Tavor, CZ858, Mini14 etc. Civilians have access to just about all types of the same firearms as our friends in the USA exemption of course is full auto. We have laws in Canada that don't make sense, a. 22 has no mag capacity restrictions and there are those people here who own 100rnd drum mags for their 22s where as most centre fired rifle or hand gun mags are restricted to 10rnds.
What we do have is a legal frame work where anyone who wants a gun has to take a safety course. Once the safety course is complete one can apply for a license which entails a criminal history check and a reference check. This may not be a perfect system, and gun violence does occur in Canada but not anywhere close to the levels in the USA.

[bmccaffrey]

Here in Canada we have guns, lots of them, regular bolt action rifles from. 22 up to 50BMG. Semi Auto rifles, shotguns both pump and semi auto, as well as hand guns, revolvers, semi autos, and of course "assault rifles" AR15, Tavor, CZ858, Mini14 etc. Civilians have access to just about all types of the same firearms as our friends in the USA exemption of course is full auto. We have laws in Canada that don't make sense, a. 22 has no mag capacity restrictions and there are those people here who own 100rnd drum mags for their 22s where as most centre fired rifle or hand gun mags are restricted to 10rnds.
What we do have is a legal frame work where anyone who wants a gun has to take a safety course. Once the safety course is complete one can apply for a license which entails a criminal history check and a reference check. This may not be a perfect system, and gun violence does occur in Canada but not anywhere close to the levels in the USA.

Maybe that's why we don't have a lot of hunting accidents witj half million in the woods during the season.
You have to take hunter safety course before buying a hunting license.

Got it. Like u said everyone has to take a safety course before u buy.
That way they get screened the same time. Boy i'm smart should run for office

[Bob Denman]

I actually didn't know this about Canada.... Thanks!
I did fly to the Ungava Bay on a Caribou hunt once. We drove up to Montreal, and had an..."interesting" conversation at the Border about our hunting rifles...

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The way I see it most people, especially gun rights advocates, are missing two points. One, the population of this country is steadily increasing and that means changes will be coming, changes of all sorts. The second is the word amendment. I think that in something like 50 to 100 years from now the population of this country will have increased to the point that the majority will demand some sort to action to reduce the proliferation of guns. The more dense the population, the more rules are needed to assure everyone can get along. Everyone will have fewer rights of all sorts. The man in the middle of a major city does not have near the freedom to act as he wishes as does the man in the middle of the Arizona desert.

The 2nd Amendment is just that, an amendment. The Constitution can be, has been, and will be changed by amendment. There is no quarantee anywhere in the Constitution that will prevent the 2nd Amendment from being repealed or modified. It won't happen for many years, probably not within any of our lifetimes, but I predict that some day, maybe in a hundred or so years, it will be.

In my opinion, if the NRA was wise, it would start looking toward the day when in 50 to 100 years things will change. They view the gun rights issue with an "all or nothing" attitude, that there can be no compromise whatever. The problem with this attitude is that it sets them up so that quite possibly one day they will lose the whole loaf, not just 2/3 of it. If the NRA wants to make sure that 150 years from now people will still be allowed to own guns, they need to start working now toward some day giving up 2/3 of the loaf they now have. Otherwise they will lose it all.

[Bob Denman]

If it's just an "Amendment"; what do you plan to do with the rest of the Bill of Rights?

[BajaRon]

The way I see it most people, especially gun rights advocates, are missing two points. One, the population of this country is steadily increasing and that means changes will be coming, changes of all sorts. The second is the word amendment. I think that in something like 50 to 100 years from now the population of this country will have increased to the point that the majority will demand some sort to action to reduce the proliferation of guns. The more dense the population, the more rules are needed to assure everyone can get along. Everyone will have fewer rights of all sorts. The man in the middle of a major city does not have near the freedom to act as he wishes as does the man in the middle of the Arizona desert.

The 2nd Amendment is just that, an amendment. The Constitution can be, has been, and will be changed by amendment. There is no quarantee anywhere in the Constitution that will prevent the 2nd Amendment from being repealed or modified. It won't happen for many years, probably not within any of our lifetimes, but I predict that some day, maybe in a hundred or so years, it will be.

In my opinion, if the NRA was wise, it would start looking toward the day when in 50 to 100 years things will change. They view the gun rights issue with an "all or nothing" attitude, that there can be no compromise whatever. The problem with this attitude is that it sets them up so that quite possibly one day they will lose the whole loaf, not just 2/3 of it. If the NRA wants to make sure that 150 years from now people will still be allowed to own guns, they need to start working now toward some day giving up 2/3 of the loaf they now have. Otherwise they will lose it all.

An interesting thought. The NRA (and I agree) feels that we will need the 2nd Amendment (as is) until we find a way to rid the world of all crime.

The real problem we are facing (with both the 1st and the 2nd amendments) is that these amendments are not being changed or reascended in a Constitutionally prescribed way. The changes are coming with a pen and a phone.

So we are turning law abiding citizens into criminals with the stroke of a single pen and a call from a single phone.

[PrairieSpyder]

An interesting thought. The NRA (and I agree) feels that we will need the 2nd Amendment (as is) until we find a way to rid the world of all crime.

The real problem we are facing (with both the 1st and the 2nd amendments) is that these amendments are not being changed or reascended in a Constitutionally prescribed way. The changes are coming with a pen and a phone.

So we are turning law abiding citizens into criminals with the stroke of a single pen and a call from a single phone.

[kep-up]

An interesting thought. The NRA (and I agree) feels that we will need the 2nd Amendment (as is) until we find a way to rid the world of all crime.

The real problem we are facing (with both the 1st and the 2nd amendments) is that these amendments are not being changed or reascended in a Constitutionally prescribed way. The changes are coming with a pen and a phone.

So we are turning law abiding citizens into criminals with the stroke of a single pen and a call from a single phone.

AMEN! the processes that were put into place to protect our rights as thinking human beings are being ignored and bypassed by the extremely vocal pro-socialist segment of the "popular" people.

please note inscription on my Clan Campbell badge. I think it would do well for each of us to remember it daily.

[POPEYEART]

MOVE TO PENNSYLVANIA, THE STATES CONSTITUTION HAS WRITTEN IN IT -- THE COMMONWEALTH EXPECTS IT CITIZENS TO KEEP AND BEARS ARMS FOR THE DEFENSE OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA