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  1. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    .Speaking from experience, once this starts - it doesn't cure itself - it just gets worse. Some here say you need to have a PIC to show your Dealer that it occurred .....BS.... it's in the computer, whether they can find it is another thing ....... You have a PIC, so demand they fix this problem....... OR at some point IT MAY NOT CLEAR ITSELF and you will need to go thru the "tow it to a dealer" nightmare (and HUGE expense . My DESS module is (now) bolted under the right headlight, so changing it is a 5 minute job. Yours will take 2 shop hrs......................Good Luck,...............Mike
    Thank you Mike, I will have the dealer check my bike in the next few weeks.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:07 PM.
    2016 Spyder F3 Limited, black, Special Edition, SE6, belt tensioner, Bajaron swaybar, AKARAPOVIC, F4 windshield with vent. Previous 2015 RTS in black and 2011 RT Limited, SE5 with Bajaron Swaybar and Bumpskid

  2. #577
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    Had my 2014 RTS back to my dealer today and they installed a NEW 4916 module, NEW Ignition Switch with New Keys & locks...

    Leaving Sunday (10/16/16) for my 2000 mile trip down Skyline Drive/Blue Ridge Parkway/Floyd Garretts Muscle Car Museum/Smokey Mountains & visiting a friend in GA...

    A BIG THANK YOU to BRP for stepping up and approving the repairs... Hopefully this will be the end of this problem for me... larryd
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:08 PM.

  3. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanna777 View Post
    Jerry, *** Temporary fixes that work : Turn on/off immediately, DO NOT LET YOUR SYSTEM SHUT DOWN for 4 to 5 cycles. ***
    t

    The permanent fix is: getting the dess module & switch replaced. I have a 2014 RTS-SE6. The first time I had the ( July 14,2015 ) dess module replaced, the 2nd time was ( on Aug. 28th, 2015) I had the dess module( part # 710004190) & the switch( part # 710004413) replaced, and it has been 1 year & 1 month since I have had the dess error show up. I know the above part #'s are not the current part #'s.

    The current/up to date part # is 710004916.
    Deanna

    Thanks for the help. Dealer heard back from BRP and was told to install a new module in both Spyders. I told them that others were saying that didn't fix the problem and that the ignition switch also had to be replaced. They said they can only do what BRP authorizes them to do. So we will have to go down the route of having the new modules fail again and then hopefully they would replace the ignition switch as well. What seems odd to me is that BRP hasn't figured out exactly what the problem is and then we can all get the same fix the first time around. Jerry

  4. #579
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobsonjerr View Post
    Thanks for the help. Dealer heard back from BRP and was told to install a new module in both Spyders. I told them that others were saying that didn't fix the problem and that the ignition switch also had to be replaced. They said they can only do what BRP authorizes them to do. So we will have to go down the route of having the new modules fail again and then hopefully they would replace the ignition switch as well. What seems odd to me is that BRP hasn't figured out exactly what the problem is and then we can all get the same fix the first time around. Jerry
    .....Jerry, I think what happens is there isn't a single entity at BRP who makes the decision as to what the FIX for this should be .... So it depends on who gets asked by the dealer as to what the FIX will be ...... remember we are dealing with a CORPORATION here .............. The windshield ARM (breakage) has been a problem since 2010 and the FIX is so simple it's laughable (a new SAND mold) ..... but BRP - REFUSES - to fix it, and they don't care how much it costs them... Mike
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:09 PM.

  5. #580
    Very Active Member Peteoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    .....Jerry, I think what happens is there isn't a single entity at BRP who makes the decision as to what the FIX for this should be .... So it depends on who gets asked by the dealer as to what the FIX will be ...... remember we are dealing with a CORPORATION here .............. The windshield ARM (breakage) has been a problem since 2010 and the FIX is so simple it's laughable (a new SAND mold) ..... but BRP - REFUSES - to fix it, and they don't care how much it costs them... Mike


    They would indeed care how much it costs them, Mike...... that's what it's all about.

    They would have financial modelling figures from their CFO showing that the cost of tooling up for the new sand mold, thus virtually admitting there is currently a faulty production process and paying for replacing all brackets produced under the old production process, is potentially more expensive than replacing only those that break and self insuring for any damages claims that might arise. Corporate management these days is all about the gamble and the annual bonus if you pull it off...... Hey, even if you don't pull it off and it backfires, you still get your golden handshake and move to another corporation, so what do you have to lose?

    Pete
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:10 PM.
    Harrington, Australia

    2021 RT Limited
    Setup for Tall & Big.... 200cm/6'7", 140kg/300lbs, 37"inleg.

    HeliBars Handlebars
    Brake rubber removed to lower pedal for easier long leg/Size 15 EEEEW boot access.
    Ikon (Aussie) shocks all round.
    Russell Daylong seat 2” taller than stock (in Sunbrella for Aussie heat & water resistance)
    Goodyear Duragrip 165/60 fronts (18psi) - provides extra 1/2” ground clearance.
    Kenda Kanine rear.
    2021 RT Limited , Brake pedal rubber removed for ease of accessing pedal with size 15 boots. Red

  6. #581
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    The windscreen arms are not sand cast. The process is too slow and labor intensive. From a cost stand point if the part was produced by this method, they would easily run away from that type of prodution method. No doubt, like the high quality billet windscreen arm produced in Austrailia, the best arm can be machined from billet. Less labor, with a tradeoff of time on the machining center.

    Recently, I noticed another brand of windscreen arms. For some reason this latest entry costs 30% more than the Australian version and omits the details of the hexagon shaped bore to match and properly support the arm onto the torsion shaft.

    Ironically, I have read many times the cause for failure is the arm is not capable to have the windscreen positioned in the full up or full down position. Myself, this concept of failure does not seem viable, however, I would consider that front tire vibration is absorbed into the arm causing the failure.
    .........If they aren't SAND CAST .... then I'm interested in how you think they are made ??? ...................Thanks ...... Mike
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:11 PM.

  7. #582
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    .........If they aren't SAND CAST .... then I'm interested in how you think they are made ??? ...................Thanks ...... Mike
    Die casting. Explained here pretty well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_casting. There's a pretty high up front capital cost and subsequently a low per item cost. BRP isn't going to make a change until there's an overwhelming economical benefit to doing so, like maybe when the rate of part failure and warranty costs exceed the cost of forged parts. There's no question forged parts would be stronger, but cost a lot more to make.

    Sand casting is used mostly for iron based alloys for large items.

    2014 Copper RTS

    Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.
    2014 RTS , Copper! (officially Cognac)

  8. #583
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder View Post
    Die casting. Explained here pretty well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_casting. There's a pretty high up front capital cost and subsequently a low per item cost. BRP isn't going to make a change until there's an overwhelming economical benefit to doing so, like maybe when the rate of part failure and warranty costs exceed the cost of forged parts. There's no question forged parts would be stronger, but cost a lot more to make.

    Sand casting is used mostly for iron based alloys for large items.
    I read your LINK and agree with the EXPENSE part ..... If they are made this way ??? ....... How's this for a possibility ....3D - carbon fiber ......!!!!!!!.........Mike
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:12 PM.

  9. #584
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    Bump

    Deanna




    Current Spyder - 2023 F3 LTD Special Mineral Blue

    Red LED NANO Saddlebag Marker Lights with Full Illumination
    Sequential Fender LED'S (Amber/Red) with Safety Reflector
    Dual Power Plate (12 V & USB ports)
    Gremlin Bell
    Rear Trunk Organizer (4 holders, 2 Elastic Holders)
    Lamonster "Top Cuff" with adjustable drink Holder
    SpyderPops Missing Guard Belt
    Console Accent Trim (Carbon Fiber Domed Black)
    Ultimate F3 Floorboards
    Front Fairing Service Access Door Covers (Carbon Fiber Doomed Black)
    Sway Bar with Links
    Rolo Laser Alignment
    Half Cover


    Former Spyder - 2014 RTS SE6 Cognac SOLD
    2023 F3 LTD Special Series , N/A N/A Mineral Blue

  10. #585
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    Hi there. When I was volunteering to do demo rides here in Victorville Cal. the rep. from BRP's ad company said you can start the bike without waiting for the info screen. He proved it to me on a new 2016 F3, Ok fine. I tried it 2 times on my 2015 RTS and got a DESS fail both times. I went back to waiting for the info screen, hit the mode button, it started right up. I have determined that it is software dependent. At least in my case i have to be patient and let the software do its thing. Also harder to steal that way. Hope this helps everyone.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:14 PM.

  11. #586
    Very Active Member Trbayth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kc6wfi View Post
    Hi there. When I was volunteering to do demo rides here in Victorville Cal. the rep. from BRP's ad company said you can start the bike without waiting for the info screen. He proved it to me on a new 2016 F3, Ok fine. I tried it 2 times on my 2015 RTS and got a DESS fail both times. I went back to waiting for the info screen, hit the mode button, it started right up. I have determined that it is software dependent. At least in my case i have to be patient and let the software do its thing. Also harder to steal that way. Hope this helps everyone.
    Only F3's can do that.
    Trb-- (Roger)

    2014 Cognac STL:Ultimate Seat, Nelson Rigg Tail Pack, Nelson Rigg RS/ST Half Cover, TL fender lights, Squared Away Laser Alignment, BajaRon sway bar and links, Akropovic Sport Silencer
    2022 White Pearl F3T
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  12. #587
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    I have contacted my Congress Representative about this issue. The DESS ERROR is BRP's problem, not ours. BRP should be held responsible for all costs related to the problem.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

  13. #588
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    After sending a second email to BRP, I had BRP approve the parts to be sent prior to my appointment. I took the bike last week to have my bike repaired but the parts were not arrived yet. I asked them why they could not order the parts prior for me getting there, and the answered from the dealer was that if they order parts prior to them to "troubleshooting" the bike and the order the wrong parts, then BRP will not let them return the part. Only time they can return the parts if they get prior permission from BRP. Oh well my bike will be ready next Friday. I ordered the new upgraded BRP rear shock, and the dealer needed the extra days for the order to arrive. I will let you know when I pick up my bike next week.
    2016 Spyder F3 Limited, black, Special Edition, SE6, belt tensioner, Bajaron swaybar, AKARAPOVIC, F4 windshield with vent. Previous 2015 RTS in black and 2011 RT Limited, SE5 with Bajaron Swaybar and Bumpskid

  14. #589
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wengerda View Post
    After sending a second email to BRP, I had BRP approve the parts to be sent prior to my appointment. I took the bike last week to have my bike repaired but the parts were not arrived yet. I asked them why they could not order the parts prior for me getting there, and the answered from the dealer was that if they order parts prior to them to "troubleshooting" the bike and the order the wrong parts, then BRP will not let them return the part. Only time they can return the parts if they get prior permission from BRP. Oh well my bike will be ready next Friday. I ordered the new upgraded BRP rear shock, and the dealer needed the extra days for the order to arrive. I will let you know when I pick up my bike next week.
    Good luck! Keep us posted! Deanna




    Current Spyder - 2023 F3 LTD Special Mineral Blue

    Red LED NANO Saddlebag Marker Lights with Full Illumination
    Sequential Fender LED'S (Amber/Red) with Safety Reflector
    Dual Power Plate (12 V & USB ports)
    Gremlin Bell
    Rear Trunk Organizer (4 holders, 2 Elastic Holders)
    Lamonster "Top Cuff" with adjustable drink Holder
    SpyderPops Missing Guard Belt
    Console Accent Trim (Carbon Fiber Domed Black)
    Ultimate F3 Floorboards
    Front Fairing Service Access Door Covers (Carbon Fiber Doomed Black)
    Sway Bar with Links
    Rolo Laser Alignment
    Half Cover


    Former Spyder - 2014 RTS SE6 Cognac SOLD
    2023 F3 LTD Special Series , N/A N/A Mineral Blue

  15. #590
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    The dealer called me this morning to pick up my bike, the Dess module was replaced, now cross my fingers that I wont have the same issue again.
    2016 Spyder F3 Limited, black, Special Edition, SE6, belt tensioner, Bajaron swaybar, AKARAPOVIC, F4 windshield with vent. Previous 2015 RTS in black and 2011 RT Limited, SE5 with Bajaron Swaybar and Bumpskid

  16. #591
    Very Active Member Peteoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wengerda View Post
    The dealer called me this morning to pick up my bike, the Dess module was replaced, now cross my fingers that I wont have the same issue again.
    Only the DESS module, Wengerda? Aren't they supposed to replace both the DESS module and the ignition switch to cure it completely? Or is that what you mean by the "module"?
    Last edited by Peteoz; 11-19-2016 at 06:39 PM.
    Harrington, Australia

    2021 RT Limited
    Setup for Tall & Big.... 200cm/6'7", 140kg/300lbs, 37"inleg.

    HeliBars Handlebars
    Brake rubber removed to lower pedal for easier long leg/Size 15 EEEEW boot access.
    Ikon (Aussie) shocks all round.
    Russell Daylong seat 2” taller than stock (in Sunbrella for Aussie heat & water resistance)
    Goodyear Duragrip 165/60 fronts (18psi) - provides extra 1/2” ground clearance.
    Kenda Kanine rear.
    2021 RT Limited , Brake pedal rubber removed for ease of accessing pedal with size 15 boots. Red

  17. #592
    Very Active Member Peteoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kc6wfi View Post
    Hi there. When I was volunteering to do demo rides here in Victorville Cal. the rep. from BRP's ad company said you can start the bike without waiting for the info screen. He proved it to me on a new 2016 F3, Ok fine. I tried it 2 times on my 2015 RTS and got a DESS fail both times. I went back to waiting for the info screen, hit the mode button, it started right up. I have determined that it is software dependent. At least in my case i have to be patient and let the software do its thing. Also harder to steal that way. Hope this helps everyone.
    The F3 and the RT are indeed different at startup, Kc......The F3 will start immediately, the RT won't start without waiting, so there was nothing untoward there
    Harrington, Australia

    2021 RT Limited
    Setup for Tall & Big.... 200cm/6'7", 140kg/300lbs, 37"inleg.

    HeliBars Handlebars
    Brake rubber removed to lower pedal for easier long leg/Size 15 EEEEW boot access.
    Ikon (Aussie) shocks all round.
    Russell Daylong seat 2” taller than stock (in Sunbrella for Aussie heat & water resistance)
    Goodyear Duragrip 165/60 fronts (18psi) - provides extra 1/2” ground clearance.
    Kenda Kanine rear.
    2021 RT Limited , Brake pedal rubber removed for ease of accessing pedal with size 15 boots. Red

  18. #593
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wengerda View Post
    The dealer called me this morning to pick up my bike, the Dess module was replaced, now cross my fingers that I wont have the same issue again.
    What is the dess module part #?

    I hope the dess module that was replaced was under warranty.

    Deanna




    Current Spyder - 2023 F3 LTD Special Mineral Blue

    Red LED NANO Saddlebag Marker Lights with Full Illumination
    Sequential Fender LED'S (Amber/Red) with Safety Reflector
    Dual Power Plate (12 V & USB ports)
    Gremlin Bell
    Rear Trunk Organizer (4 holders, 2 Elastic Holders)
    Lamonster "Top Cuff" with adjustable drink Holder
    SpyderPops Missing Guard Belt
    Console Accent Trim (Carbon Fiber Domed Black)
    Ultimate F3 Floorboards
    Front Fairing Service Access Door Covers (Carbon Fiber Doomed Black)
    Sway Bar with Links
    Rolo Laser Alignment
    Half Cover


    Former Spyder - 2014 RTS SE6 Cognac SOLD
    2023 F3 LTD Special Series , N/A N/A Mineral Blue

  19. #594
    Active Member ndspyderlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peteoz View Post
    The F3 and the RT are indeed different at startup, Kc......The F3 will start immediately, the RT won't start without waiting, so there was nothing untoward there
    My 2016 rtl will start right away with no wait necessary.

  20. #595
    Very Active Member Peteoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndspyderlover View Post
    My 2016 rtl will start right away with no wait necessary.
    Yes, but Kc is talking about a 2015 RT.
    Harrington, Australia

    2021 RT Limited
    Setup for Tall & Big.... 200cm/6'7", 140kg/300lbs, 37"inleg.

    HeliBars Handlebars
    Brake rubber removed to lower pedal for easier long leg/Size 15 EEEEW boot access.
    Ikon (Aussie) shocks all round.
    Russell Daylong seat 2” taller than stock (in Sunbrella for Aussie heat & water resistance)
    Goodyear Duragrip 165/60 fronts (18psi) - provides extra 1/2” ground clearance.
    Kenda Kanine rear.
    2021 RT Limited , Brake pedal rubber removed for ease of accessing pedal with size 15 boots. Red

  21. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanna777 View Post
    What is the dess module part #?

    I hope the dess module that was replaced was under warranty.

    Deanna
    710004916
    2016 Spyder F3 Limited, black, Special Edition, SE6, belt tensioner, Bajaron swaybar, AKARAPOVIC, F4 windshield with vent. Previous 2015 RTS in black and 2011 RT Limited, SE5 with Bajaron Swaybar and Bumpskid

  22. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peteoz View Post
    Only the DESS module, Wengerda? Aren't they supposed to replace both the DESS module and the ignition switch to cure it completely? Or is that what you mean by the "module"?
    They only authorized the module #710004916.


    2016 Spyder F3 Limited, black, Special Edition, SE6, belt tensioner, Bajaron swaybar, AKARAPOVIC, F4 windshield with vent. Previous 2015 RTS in black and 2011 RT Limited, SE5 with Bajaron Swaybar and Bumpskid

  23. #598
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peteoz View Post
    Yes, but Kc is talking about a 2015 RT.
    2015RT
    will do the same. It was new for the 15s.

    Blue Flame Spyder F3-S
    2015 F3S , Blue Flame

  24. #599
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wengerda View Post
    They only authorized the module #710004916.


    Sent Pm. Deanna




    Current Spyder - 2023 F3 LTD Special Mineral Blue

    Red LED NANO Saddlebag Marker Lights with Full Illumination
    Sequential Fender LED'S (Amber/Red) with Safety Reflector
    Dual Power Plate (12 V & USB ports)
    Gremlin Bell
    Rear Trunk Organizer (4 holders, 2 Elastic Holders)
    Lamonster "Top Cuff" with adjustable drink Holder
    SpyderPops Missing Guard Belt
    Console Accent Trim (Carbon Fiber Domed Black)
    Ultimate F3 Floorboards
    Front Fairing Service Access Door Covers (Carbon Fiber Doomed Black)
    Sway Bar with Links
    Rolo Laser Alignment
    Half Cover


    Former Spyder - 2014 RTS SE6 Cognac SOLD
    2023 F3 LTD Special Series , N/A N/A Mineral Blue

  25. #600
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    After a week of sitting with the cover on, I went out this morning, and fired up the bike just like normal, no DESS ERROR!!!! Fixed itself!!!

    One great thing that has come of this, I've found out that I have towing coverage in my State Farm Comprehensive coverage, I have towing coverage from my AMA membership, and as long as my BRP Warranty is in place, I have $200 per incident towing coverage from BRP. I don't recall that ever being mentioned by the salesman, but after sending a nasty gram to BRP, that was the reply I got from them! I also don't recall ever seeing that mentioned in any of the threads on this forum, but I could have easily missed it!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:15 PM.

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