Interesting performance comparo between F3 and Indian

[petegtsv10]

My wife's F3 weighs 50 pounds more than my 2014 Indian Vintage. I weigh 50 lbs more than her, so the weight difference is a wash. The Indian has more a lot more TQ and it arrives sooner. The F3 has more HP in the upper rpm range. Given the weight, TQ and HP specs I just shared, the results were exactly as I would predict. From any lower rpm roll-on (top gear at 55-60 mph), the Indian jumps ahead right away and the F3 stays a constant distant back as it's rpm increases. At higher rpm rolls, it's almost a dead heat with the Indian just a bit stronger. We didn't test at all beyond maybe 90 mph because that's not where we usually ride. our results also make sense since the two machines have similar 0-60 and quarter mile specs. Similar fun runs between vs her 2012 RT embarrassed the RT badly. (more weight, less power, etc)

[Chupaca]

interesting..thanks for the investigative report on the two. Must have been fun but who was ryding which..??

[Wildrice]

My wife's F3 weighs 50 pounds more than my 2014 Indian Vintage. I weigh 50 lbs more than her, so the weight difference is a wash. The Indian has more a lot more TQ and it arrives sooner. The F3 has more HP in the upper rpm range. Given the weight, TQ and HP specs I just shared, the results were exactly as I would predict. From any lower rpm roll-on (top gear at 55-60 mph), the Indian jumps ahead right away and the F3 stays a constant distant back as it's rpm increases. At higher rpm rolls, it's almost a dead heat with the Indian just a bit stronger. We didn't test at all beyond maybe 90 mph because that's not where we usually ride. our results also make sense since the two machines have similar 0-60 and quarter mile specs. Similar fun runs between vs her 2012 RT embarrassed the RT badly. (more weight, less power, etc)

Run a comparison with the Spyder in a lower gear. The Indian peaks at 5500 rpm versus 8100 on the Spyder. Porsche has low power in low rpm but accelerations change after higher rpm. The F3's top end is close to 130mph & the Indian approx 110mph---. 50-55 mph in 6 th gear isn't a good comparison. Apples to oranges :-) My Hayabusa's rpm goes to 11,000 rpm. at 3000 rpm any Harley or Indian will pull away---after 6000 rpm on the Hayabusa--the big twins are in my rear view mirror.
But thanks for the input anyway,
Darrell

[petegtsv10]

Run a comparison with the Spyder in a lower gear. The Indian peaks at 5500 rpm versus 8100 on the Spyder. Porsche has low power in low rpm but accelerations change after higher rpm. The F3's top end is close to 130mph & the Indian approx 110mph---. 50-55 mph in 6 th gear isn't a good comparison. Apples to oranges :-) My Hayabusa's rpm goes to 11,000 rpm. at 3000 rpm any Harley or Indian will pull away---after 6000 rpm on the Hayabusa--the big twins are in my rear view mirror.
But thanks for the input anyway,
Darrell

Valid point, but I wanted to do a real life comparo in the rpms we'd likely be in at the same time. Years ago I owned that torque-monster Vulcan 2000 (141 TQ) My son had a Kawi ZX10 (bike does over 100 mph in 1st gear!) I told him I could beat him. We got side by side in TOP gear at 30 mph and rolled on from there. I easily beat him for a while and then.......

[Bob Denman]

Let that Indian get on the warpath, and nice things happen!

[Xyzzy]

The F3's top end is close to 130mph...

My F3 can't get anywhere near 130 MPH.

6th @ 6650 = 113
5th @ 7850 = 113
4th @ 8100 = 99

[ARtraveler]

Sounds like you have two good ones in your stable. I am a fan of the new Indians.

[Bob Denman]

I am a fan of the new Indians.

I kind of like the OLDER ones...

[bmccaffrey]

Not buying the 130 mph. Would need proof.

Don't thinh top end would be any better then the RSS or RS. Better lower end torque not on high end.

Sorry JMO.
Seeing believing. And i have rode a couple F3

[Rogue Hawk]

My wife's F3 weighs 50 pounds more than my 2014 Indian Vintage. I weigh 50 lbs more than her, so the weight difference is a wash. The Indian has more a lot more TQ and it arrives sooner. The F3 has more HP in the upper rpm range. Given the weight, TQ and HP specs I just shared, the results were exactly as I would predict. From any lower rpm roll-on (top gear at 55-60 mph), the Indian jumps ahead right away and the F3 stays a constant distant back as it's rpm increases. At higher rpm rolls, it's almost a dead heat with the Indian just a bit stronger. We didn't test at all beyond maybe 90 mph because that's not where we usually ride. our results also make sense since the two machines have similar 0-60 and quarter mile specs. Similar fun runs between vs her 2012 RT embarrassed the RT badly. (more weight, less power, etc)

Circle the F3's when the Indians are coming

[Pirate looks at --]

I kind of like the OLDER ones...

[petegtsv10]

Not buying the 130 mph. Would need proof.

Don't thinh top end would be any better then the RSS or RS. Better lower end torque not on high end.

Sorry JMO.
Seeing believing. And i have rode a couple F3

I agree.......with 850 lbs, the aero of a brick and only 115 hp I don't believe the laws of physics will allow any near 130 mph.

[Colin]

I have only ridden around 1300kms (about 800 miles)on my F3 SM6 due to rubbish weather here at the moment, and I still havent really had a proper play, but I can tell you in 3rd gear my rev limiter kicked in at 158kph which is a tad under 100mph. With 4th and 5th gear still to be used I can see 130mph as a realistic speed for my F3, as long as BRP hasnt put the 180kph Speed Limiter on it like our other models. Also we have the smaller rear cog on our F3 so we probably get a bit more top end speed

[Bob Denman]

. Also we have the smaller rear cog on our F3 so we probably get a bit more top end speed

Interesting; The Canadian bikes also get the RT gearing...
I was under the mistaken impression that only the European F-3s were so-equipped.

[Colin]

Interesting; The Canadian bikes also get the RT gearing...
I was under the mistaken impression that only the European F-3s were so-equipped.

European and Australasian Models Bob.
Im in New Zealand

[Xyzzy]

With 4th and 5th gear still to be used I can see 130mph as a realistic speed for my F3, as long as BRP hasnt put the 180kph Speed Limiter on it like our other models. Also we have the smaller rear cog on our F3 so we probably get a bit more top end speed

The gearing doesn't matter if the aerodynamic drag is too high. I can't redline mine in 5th, let alone sixth.

6th @ 6650 = 113
5th @ 7850 = 113
4th @ 8100 = 99

[Colin]

The gearing doesn't matter if the aerodynamic drag is too high. I can't redline mine in 5th, let alone sixth.

You realise now you have convinced me I have to go out and see what it will actually do now

[Bob Denman]

European and Australasian Models Bob.
Im in New Zealand

That's NOT part of Canada??

[bmccaffrey]

You realise now you have convinced me I have to go out and see what it will actually do now

Still not buying it.
Go for it and go pro the speedo.

I believe my RS will out run the F3 .
I HAVE DRIVEN the f3. Impressed with low end not so much on the upper

[Colin]

Still not buying it.
Go for it and go pro the speedo.

I believe my RS will out run the F3 .
I HAVE DRIVEN the f3. Impressed with low end not so much on the upper

I will do it, when the time is right, but I don't own a go pro and dont intend to in the near future.
And at the end of it all, it doesnt bother me if it is faster or slower than anything else, I bought
it because I like it, I am really just interested in knowing what the difference in performance is between
our European/Australasian models and the Northern models, to maybe figure out why they changed the rear sprocket,
and I also enjoy entering into discussions on here and giving my opinion.

[Xyzzy]

FWIW

I have access to a place where I can open up my toys for a very long stretch*. The F3 is a barn door. I have tested it against a head wind and barely broke 105 MPH in 5th. I have never tested it with a tail wind. The max speeds I posted are in still air. The RPM readings I posted are not instant values. They are sustained for 30 seconds or more. In fourth it will actually bump 8150 RPM but then the rev limiter softly kicks in and it stays at 8100 RPM. I do not tuck in when I do my testing and I don't have a windshield.

*Professional driver on a closed circuit course. Or something like that.

YMMV

I have no need to go super fast so the design as-is works for me. It pulls reasonably well up to 100 MPH. If there was an insurance discount that limited my toys to 100 MPH I would accept that trade!

I'd certainly rather have the low end torque of the 1330 rather than the upper end hit of the older engine. The fuel economy alone makes a huge difference.

At first I thought having the higher "Not North American" gearing would be better but after riding a lot at 55 MPH I feel the "North American" gearing is perfect WRT power developed. (In another thread a guy mentioned trying to swap out the pulleys and belts and the F3 went into limp mode.)

I am really just interested in knowing what the difference in performance is between our European/Australasian models and the Northern models, to maybe figure out why they changed the rear sprocket, and I also enjoy entering into discussions on here and giving my opinion.

My uneducated guess is they are trying to "sell" the bike to people (Americans?) who don't rev out the bike. I know I have a tendency to run at lower-than-optimal RPMs.

[BajaRon]

My F3 can't get anywhere near 130 MPH.

6th @ 6650 = 113
5th @ 7850 = 113
4th @ 8100 = 99

That means that my 2008 GS is faster than your F3!

Hard to believe...

[Wildrice]

I agree.......with 850 lbs, the aero of a brick and only 115 hp I don't believe the laws of physics will allow any near 130 mph.

I have had a few Harley's & I know what bad aerodynamics feels like at top speed. But the 2014 Harley street glide special weighed over 850# with approx. 75 HP & if that pig could hit 115 why couldn't the f3's hit 127 mph as per magazine articles? I have had it past 112 due to road traffic but the tach showed 6200 rpm with the max hp rated at 115 at 7500. The F3's was pulling strong at 112. I will follow up & retest when road conditihttps://youtu.be/UK72YSeIFeIons permit. By the way---the 2015 Z06 can't hit 200 mph in the mile & we can:-):-)

[DrewNJ]

I have had a few Harley's & I know what bad aerodynamics feels like at top speed. But the 2014 Harley street glide special weighed over 850# with approx. 75 HP & if that pig could hit 115 why couldn't the f3's hit 127 mph as per magazine articles? I have had it past 112 due to road traffic but the tach showed 6200 rpm with the max hp rated at 115 at 7500. The F3's was pulling strong at 112. I will follow up & retest when road conditihttps://youtu.be/UK72YSeIFeIons permit. By the way---the 2015 Z06 can't hit 200 mph in the mile & we can:-):-)

The main difference is how your looking at HP. BRP HP is "claimed" HP and likely at the crank. Nobody that I'm aware of has actually dyno'd one and posted the real numbers.
Harley HP is a true dyno HP at the wheel with, as you know, a ton of dyno graphs.
I'd think they are likely very close if measured the same.

Also, little odds and ends..... aerodynamics imho are still better on the Harley, and less rolling resistance, and dry weight is closer to 810lbs wet. Vs. The f3 at 850lbs dry.

[petegtsv10]

I have had a few Harley's & I know what bad aerodynamics feels like at top speed. But the 2014 Harley street glide special weighed over 850# with approx. 75 HP & if that pig could hit 115 why couldn't the f3's hit 127 mph as per magazine articles? I have had it past 112 due to road traffic but the tach showed 6200 rpm with the max hp rated at 115 at 7500. The F3's was pulling strong at 112. I will follow up & retest when road conditihttps://youtu.be/UK72YSeIFeIons permit. By the way---the 2015 Z06 can't hit 200 mph in the mile & we can:-):-)

The tests you've seen are probably for a ZO7. The ZO7 is 10-15 mph slower than a ZO6 due to massive downforce.