What did Can-Am do to the 2013s?

[wiredgeorge]

Newbie questions... I have a 2010 RT. No heat or gas odor. What did Can-Am do to the basic 2010/11/12 machine in the 2013 model that caused the gas smells and heat? Just a bit of history for the curious. From the little I have been able to gather as far as the RT model progression, Can-Am made incremental improvements from 2010 till 2012. Better suspension, right-sized windshield, etc... that sort of thing.

[Pennyrick]

Newbie questions... I have a 2010 RT. No heat or gas odor. What did Can-Am do to the basic 2010/11/12 machine in the 2013 model that caused the gas smells and heat? Just a bit of history for the curious. From the little I have been able to gather as far as the RT model progression, Can-Am made incremental improvements from 2010 till 2012. Better suspension, right-sized windshield, etc... that sort of thing.

They re-designed the chassis to accept the 1330 engine for 2013. Unfortunately the engine was not ready for market and they used the 998 instead. The tupperware and chassis was not designed for that engine and the airflow caused overheating problems.

[Chupaca]

I was told that the thirteen was being modified for the 1330 ACE engine which made for many changes in the engine compartment , frame etc. Still using the 998cc V-twin that year made for some unforseen problems. Once they installed the new engine no more problems. Unfortunate but this seems to be corrected with the recall mods...

[Bob Denman]

The 2013s were "tweeners"...
That had the new frame and running gear, which gave MUCH better handling.
But were left with the older engine...
Now that the recall for them is proving to be very effective; they may just end up being the best of the 998-equipped bikes!

[Pampurrs]

They re-designed the chassis to accept the 1330 engine for 2013. Unfortunately the engine was not ready for market and they used the 998 instead. The tupperware and chassis was not designed for that engine and the airflow caused overheating problems.

If that's the case, I wonder how practical it would be to replace the 998 with a 1330

Pam

[ARtraveler]

If that's the case, I wonder how practical it would be to replace the 998 with a 1330

Pam

I believe someone quoted a $8,000 price tag for a new engine. If my memory is correct--not worth it in my opinion. A correction will be coming shortly if I am wrong on the price.

[Huddleston]

My dealer opined that the relocation of the battery blocked airflow to the engine.

[Bob Denman]

I believe someone quoted a $8,000 price tag for a new engine. If my memory is correct--not worth it in my opinion. A correction will be coming shortly if I am wrong on the price.

That's not counting the new transmission or bodywork either...

[DrewNJ]

It was fueling. Everyone around here complained about poor fuel economy so BRP leaned them out to squeeze out a few more additional mpg's. In doing so, they leaned them out so much they were making a motor that is already known for running a bit hot, run even hotter.

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[wiredgeorge]

Wow... who woulda thunk it? Hard to believe the design engineers didn't foresee heating issues with leaning the FI or not having the correct cooling for the old engine in this platform. Thanks for the info.

[Dan McNally]

It was fueling. Everyone around here complained about poor fuel economy so BRP leaned them out to squeeze out a few more additional mpg's. In doing so, they leaned them out so much they were making a motor that is already known for running a bit hot, run even hotter.

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I don't think it was that simple, or they would have just reflashed the computer to run richer rather than doing all the recall modifications . . . the earlier comments about the new frame and the old engine are spot on.

[DrewNJ]

I don't think it was that simple, or they would have just reflashed the computer to run richer rather than doing all the recall modifications . . . the earlier comments about the new frame and the old engine are spot on.

Think what you want.....There IS more to it but not into discussing it fully anymore. We've been over all of this before and most of us are over it.
However, it has nothing to do with the frame. A frame has nothing to do with cooling.
If you want a good read then do some research on the difference, pros /cons between dead head vs. Return fuel setups and rails which is one of the mods.


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[robmorg]

...However, it has nothing to do with the frame. A frame has nothing to do with cooling.
If you want a good read then do some research on the difference, pros /cons between dead head vs. Return fuel setups and rails which is one of the mods.

I would agree that the frame would have nothing to do with it. But I do think that there were changes in the chassis and internal body design that contributed to the heat problem on the 2013 RT, in addition to the fuel system configuration. Whatever it was, I'm glad they seem to have gotten it straightened out.

Now that the recall for them is proving to be very effective; they may just end up being the best of the 998-equipped bikes!

I think you are absolutely correct about that!!

[Peter Aawen]

If that's the case, I wonder how practical it would be to replace the 998 with a 1330

Pam

While the frame & suspension etc were set up for the new motor, because it wasn't ready yet & the 2013's went ahead with the 'old' twin, they also got to keep a lot of the 'old' Tupperware, just modded inside/underneath enough to fit around the 'unplanned for' combination of new frame & old engine.... & thereby keeping some 'new' bits for the 2014 release besides just the motor! The Tupperware on the 2014's with the new motor underneath has some readily visible differences & is significantly wider than earlier models (2013 included) & while the 2013 Tupperware is similar in many ways to that sported by the earlier & later models, it's ended up being not necessarily 100% interchangeable with either.

Sooo, I'd suggest it was the mix of old & new in the 2013 RT's that contributed most to causing the over-heating concerns! And the 'fix' has ended up being a bit of a mix too, having to address the engine tuning as well as modifying internal & external Tupperware & the resulting air-flows.

It wouldn't be a simple or straight-forward thing to fit the 1330 motor into a 2013 RT as it currently exists; from what I've seen of it, I reckon it'd require almost a complete replacement of the 2013 Tupperware, (possibly with the exclusion of the tail light surround) on top of changing the engine, the transmission, the canbus wiring & computer (& probably the controls too, because of the canbus changes), and even the ABS, VSS, & EBD etc controllers & computers (or at least re-calibrating the existing units to suit the differences in weight, torque, gear change points, etc between the different motors & year models)

When it comes down to the nitty gritty, I reckon the quickest & cheapest way to 'fit' the 1330 motor into a 2013 frame & tupperware would probably be to simply throw out the 2013 entirely & replace it with a new 2014 Spyder.... & somehow, I don't see BRP footing the bill for that!! Besides, I quite like the twin motor, & appreciate the improved ride & handling the 2013 frame & suspension brought with it!! I too think it may well end up being the best 998 Spyder ever!!

[Bob Denman]

It probably wasn't the frame that caused the overheating; but it sure might have been the re-packaging of components on it, that led to the reduced airflow...
(have we split that hair "fine enough" yet?)

[Dan McNally]

I don't think it was that simple, or they would have just reflashed the computer to run richer rather than doing all the recall modifications . . . the earlier comments about the new frame and the old engine are spot on.

Think what you want.....There IS more to it but not into discussing it fully anymore. We've been over all of this before and most of us are over it.
However, it has nothing to do with the frame. A frame has nothing to do with cooling.
If you want a good read then do some research on the difference, pros /cons between dead head vs. Return fuel setups and rails which is one of the mods.


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Thanks for the permission to think what I want.

I have been following these posts, as well. So, once again, why did BRP spend so much money to increase the airflow under the Tupperware if "It was fueling . . . so BRP leaned them out to squeeze out a few more additional mpg's. In doing so, they leaned them out so much they were making a motor that is already known for running a bit hot, run even hotter."

Please enlighten us all.

[Bob Denman]

That may have been due to the reduced airflow afforded by the re-packaging... Trapped heat couldn't get out, and was damaging hidden components.
It wasn't to help with the engine itself; it helped everything else!

[DrewNJ]

Not into talking much tech around here anymore, to many haters. If you really want to learn, the TUNING info is out there. Info a lot of people used to take care of the issues well over a year ago and have been happy since. Others decided to dig their feet in the sand and wait for a BRP fix. It's not rocket science and I feel no need to feed the grumpy trolls.
Glad everyone with their 13' machines are finally able to ride comfortably with the BRP recall fix.

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[Dan McNally]

Not into talking much tech around here anymore, to many haters. If you really want to learn, the TUNING info is out there. Info a lot of people used to take care of the issues well over a year ago and have been happy since. Others decided to dig their feet in the sand and wait for a BRP fix. It's not rocket science and I feel no need to feed the grumpy trolls.
Glad everyone with their 13' machines are finally able to ride comfortably with the BRP recall fix.

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Apparently your idea of haters and trolls are people who don't agree with every word you type.

[DrewNJ]

Apparently your idea of haters and trolls are people who don't agree with every word you type.

Whatever you say, not trying to convince you of anything. Honestly, I don't care. Your the one that seems to be upset because I dont want to talk about tuning anymore.
So, I take it you did some reading yourself? Reading off the site?
Best of luck!

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[wiredgeorge]

My question initially was innocent. I have seen soooo much talk about the 2013 RT that I wondered what actually kicked off the eventual fix. I gathered poor air circulation leading to heating and some folks have complained of smelling gas. My query seems to have kicked off a urinary olympics so never mind... perhaps some of you folks have too much personality invested to talk about this subject without getting heated so I have gotten more than enough info to satisfy me. In the end, I have a 2010 so the question was academic.

There were comments about how the suspension was improved for 2013; how was this done? Was the basic frame changed? Shocks? Anti-sway bar?

[Commander]

And this my friend is the short version!!!!!!!!

[Bob Denman]

There were comments about how the suspension was improved for 2013; how was this done? Was the basic frame changed? Shocks? Anti-sway bar?

The entire front suspension was replaced; new A-arms, shocks, brakes, wheels, and tires...
In order to handle all of this; they changed to a new frame design.

[jcthorne]

My question initially was innocent. I have seen soooo much talk about the 2013 RT that I wondered what actually kicked off the eventual fix. I gathered poor air circulation leading to heating and some folks have complained of smelling gas. My query seems to have kicked off a urinary olympics so never mind... perhaps some of you folks have too much personality invested to talk about this subject without getting heated so I have gotten more than enough info to satisfy me. In the end, I have a 2010 so the question was academic.

There were comments about how the suspension was improved for 2013; how was this done? Was the basic frame changed? Shocks? Anti-sway bar?

Yes the frame, a arms, shocks, sway bar, hubs, bfakes, etc. All new and much improved in 13. Was all uvershadowded by the heat and fume issues that are finally solved. The 13 rts are great bikes.....now.

[napper39]

since i do have a 2013 rt,i found out that some of the heat was from the kat was put under the tupewer thus cassing extra heat the 2012 s were out side the tupwer thus less heat and cooler under the tup.and ,im happy with my spyder and ride ever day it dont rain. but i still would like that 2014 or 2015 rt for the engine and 6 speed tranney.