Would *you* have sold the bike?

[daveinva]

Had myself a little moral dilemma this morning.

Readers know I bought myself a new motorcycle a few weeks ago, a Honda CB500F-- that I'm loving, BTW!-- which necessitates me selling my little Ninja 250 (GF won't let me keep *three* bikes in the driveway, I don't blame her, we we're getting to be "that house" ).

Put the Ninja up on Craigslist at a competitive price, or so I thought-- I've only gotten a single hit in the last two weeks, which bums me out, especially since it's less $$$ than other 250s on CL *and* it needs no work at all-- recent tires, fresh oil, clean carbs, etc. I swear, 95% of the bikes for sale on CL are garage queens that were never ridden and need $1000 worth of work to bring back to life... anyway, neither here nor there.

So, I met the one kid interested in my bike this morning (we'll call him Joe). Waited waaay too long for him to show up at the shopping mall lot, but whatever, it was a beautiful morning. When Joe (maybe 22 years old at most) shows up in a car, he hops out in his shirt, shorts and sneakers. No gear, not even a helmet. Okay, whatever, we're just in a parking lot.

I show Joe the bike, point out the scratches, praise it as a great beginner bike. He shows me his license, fresh with a learner's permit stamp. He asks me to ride the bike around the lot a bit, which I do, then when I'm done he pulls out his money to make the deal.

That's when Joe says, "Do you have any pointers for riding?" I'm like, ummm, what kind of pointers do you need? "Like, how do you shift? I drive a manual car, is it like that?"



I stop, look at Joe, and ask, "Joe, have you ever even *ridden* a motorcycle before?"

Nope. Turns out he took the *written* test at the DMV and got the permit, but has never been on a bike before. I asked him about taking an MSF class. "Nah, they charge like $350 for that class, I'd rather save my money."



I tell Joe that the class is the best money he'd ever spend, totally worth it. He nods his head and repeats the request for me to help him learn how to ride it.

You know, in, like, fifteen minutes in a TGI Friday's parking lot.

That's when I couldn't resist my guilt complex any longer. I tell him, "Joe, I'm really sorry to have to say this, but I can't in good conscience sell you this bike today. Here's what I *can* do-- if you go and take the MSF class, and you come back and I still have the bike for sale, I'll knock $200 off the price, the bike will be yours. But you gotta take the class, or at least find someone who can lend you their bike for a couple days in a parking lot."

Now, it was hard to turn down the money-- he was going to give me my asking price, too, no negotiations!! -- but in a way, it wasn't. Yeah, I know, millions of men and women learned how to ride motorcycles without ever taking a class, it happens every day, but I just couldn't bring myself to sell the Ninja to this eager, enthusiastic, and completely unprepared young man. Odds are he'd be perfectly fine getting home, he lived not too far from there, but if he didn't make it home... I'd never forgive myself. I thought about riding to his house and dropping the bike off there, but I long ago made the "no houses" rule of buying & selling on CL, wasn't about to break that one, either.

Anyway... what would YOU have done?

[2dogs]

Exactly what I'd have done. Sleep well my friend.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

" RESPECT ", That's what I have for you Dave. Not everyone would have done it your way. I congratulate you.....Mike

[Cruzr Joe]

Sometime we have to do whats right for others.


Cruzr Joe

[gman214]

I commend you for that! I bought a 1991 Suzuki GS500 before my MSF Class. It needed some work but was in riding condition. The guy I bought it from trailered it to my driveway. I didn't touch it til after my class.

I was standing in my driveway an hour ago and this guy I know(trying to sell his Gixxer) let a "Newbie" ride his bike. I heard a yell and then a crash! The Gixxer ended up under a parked trucked. I saw the Newbie get up off the street. Sometimes you have to make a wise and safe decision. He didn't and you did!

[johnnyrocket]

Had myself a little moral dilemma this morning.

Readers know I bought myself a new motorcycle a few weeks ago, a Honda CB500F-- that I'm loving, BTW!-- which necessitates me selling my little Ninja 250 (GF won't let me keep *three* bikes in the driveway, I don't blame her, we we're getting to be "that house" ).

Put the Ninja up on Craigslist at a competitive price, or so I thought-- I've only gotten a single hit in the last two weeks, which bums me out, especially since it's less $$$ than other 250s on CL *and* it needs no work at all-- recent tires, fresh oil, clean carbs, etc. I swear, 95% of the bikes for sale on CL are garage queens that were never ridden and need $1000 worth of work to bring back to life... anyway, neither here nor there.

So, I met the one kid interested in my bike this morning (we'll call him Joe). Waited waaay too long for him to show up at the shopping mall lot, but whatever, it was a beautiful morning. When Joe (maybe 22 years old at most) shows up in a car, he hops out in his shirt, shorts and sneakers. No gear, not even a helmet. Okay, whatever, we're just in a parking lot.

I show Joe the bike, point out the scratches, praise it as a great beginner bike. He shows me his license, fresh with a learner's permit stamp. He asks me to ride the bike around the lot a bit, which I do, then when I'm done he pulls out his money to make the deal.

That's when Joe says, "Do you have any pointers for riding?" I'm like, ummm, what kind of pointers do you need? "Like, how do you shift? I drive a manual car, is it like that?"



I stop, look at Joe, and ask, "Joe, have you ever even *ridden* a motorcycle before?"

Nope. Turns out he took the *written* test at the DMV and got the permit, but has never been on a bike before. I asked him about taking an MSF class. "Nah, they charge like $350 for that class, I'd rather save my money."



I tell Joe that the class is the best money he'd ever spend, totally worth it. He nods his head and repeats the request for me to help him learn how to ride it.

You know, in, like, fifteen minutes in a TGI Friday's parking lot.

That's when I couldn't resist my guilt complex any longer. I tell him, "Joe, I'm really sorry to have to say this, but I can't in good conscience sell you this bike today. Here's what I *can* do-- if you go and take the MSF class, and you come back and I still have the bike for sale, I'll knock $200 off the price, the bike will be yours. But you gotta take the class, or at least find someone who can lend you their bike for a couple days in a parking lot."

Now, it was hard to turn down the money-- he was going to give me my asking price, too, no negotiations!! -- but in a way, it wasn't. Yeah, I know, millions of men and women learned how to ride motorcycles without ever taking a class, it happens every day, but I just couldn't bring myself to sell the Ninja to this eager, enthusiastic, and completely unprepared young man. Odds are he'd be perfectly fine getting home, he lived not too far from there, but if he didn't make it home... I'd never forgive myself. I thought about riding to his house and dropping the bike off there, but I long ago made the "no houses" rule of buying & selling on CL, wasn't about to break that one, either.

Anyway... what would YOU have done?

Good call!

[spacetiger]

You did more than the right thing. Thing is, if he does the right thing or livs through his way of doing it, he will NEVER forget you. As he ages, so will his respect for what you did for him that day. Of course, if he goes out in a flash, we will not remember you...

BTW, I bought my first new car with a 5 speed and didn't know how to shift. I just waited till the salesman left to go back into the building. I stalled it 3 times going out of the parking lot and the rest is history as far as cars go. 2 years after that, I had the bike itch so bad, I finally bought a Kawasaki from a dealer that made the Saturday evening deposit every weekend (I worked as a teller on the weekends to pay for school). He said come down to the dealership, they have 1 more KZ200... so I did. I bought it and asked the saleman could one of the guys ride it to my house and I'll bring him back in my car. I went home and just looked at it. I had no idea how to ride it. I read the manual, then started it up.. Within 5 min, I was rolling down the hill as there would be no stalling that way. Never did stall out and I have been riding for the last 37 years with maybe a 10 year gap and have only been down once.

So, sometimes the nut doesn't kill himself.

Jerry

[SpyderAnn01]

That was a good thing you did and I hope he does the right thing and signs up for class.

[ARtraveler]

You did the right thing. Sleep well and with a good conscience.

[3 Wheel Rider]

I aplaud your courage, self discipline and sense of responsibility to do the right thing and not sell him the bike until he completes a proper safety course. You may have saved him from his own two worst enemies... immaturity and lack of common sense.

[Chupaca]

You handled it perfectly. If he does and you do sell it to him but otherwise you will have others interested...

[Bob Denman]

Thank you, for doing the right thing!

[DrewNJ]

Yes, I would have sold the bike. Everyone has to learn at some point and at least the kid had enough sense to buy a 250 and even ask for pointers. My answer might be different if you were selling a liter bike.

After money was exchanged I might have offered to spend a bit of time in an empty parking lot with some simple pointers to get him going.
While I am a big fan of the MSF course. Remember, its only the basics. Figure there are a lot of people who learn from a friend or relative in an empty parking lot...and mostly just by doing.

[blacklightning]

I had a similar thing happen to me when I sold a 2002 suzuki katana. The guy claimed that he know how to ride. I offered to let him take it around the neighborhood. He said that he didn't want to ride it until he paid for it. After exchanging money and title, he asked if it was still one down and the rest of the gears up? At that point I realized that he didn't know how to ride. I offered him his money back, and he said "No" he really wanted the bike. I told him to at least let me deliver the bike to him so he could ride it in a parking lot some place. He still said no. As he left my house, followed by his girlfriend (he was a football player with NC State, so he wanted to appear to be a hero as he left), I know it could be trouble. I later found out that after getting up to 4th gear and coming to the stop light, he didn't know how to downshift. So at each stop he rolled the bike foward until he was able to get it going.
3 weeks later I was at the local dealership and I saw the bike in the service bay getting new tires. I mentioned that I know the owner. They said no, they were putting new tires on for a sale. The previous owner had just traded it in for a yamaha R1.

[PrairieSpyder]

I bought my first motorcycle before taking the MSF class. The seller brought it to my house where I lived alone. (Post divorce) Class scheduled over a month out. It just killed me having that bike in my garage & I couldn't ride it. So I called my brother in Arizona and he explained how to start it and how to shift. Then I told he I'm going for a short ride and if I don't call him back in a half hour to please call the cops in my town. I ride about a mile out, turned around in a church parking lot, and cam home. Called my bro, just thrilled. I later took the MSF class. But never got comfy on 2 wheels. So I bought a convertible sports car instead.

[DrewNJ]

Just a thought, maybe give the kid a call and offer to meet him somewhere for an afternoon. Tell him to pick up some gear and youll spend some time with him.
That would be a win/win. You'd sell the bike and he'd have some good pointers and a practice session from a seasoned rider.

Personally, I actually enjoy doing things like that. My son and I had a blast doing the exact same thing after he took the MSF class.

[jaherbst]

Very noble act. I am a self taught rider at the age of eleven and have ridden now for sixty four years. I did learn on a farm/ranch and country dirt roads. I still think one on one parking lot instruction is as good as any. Most of it depends on the judgement of the rider anyway. I finally took my license endorsement at age forty on a Gold Wing. Person giving the test said are you sure you want to take this on that large of bike. Buy this time I had raced M/C for twelve years, been to Sturges at least a dozen times and ridden to Daytona from Minnesota. Needless to say I passed the first time and the guy gave me a WOW.

My Wife went through all the classes when she got her first Harley and I have got to say I disagree with some of their teachings. Out of the four women in the class she was the only one who passed the first time. Three of the men also failed. I did take her to a parking lot first and gave her some instruction on the basics. (no it was on riding the M/C)

I have taught a lot of people to ride including all my kids and numerous "little Brothers" in the Big Brothers of America program and think that just because you have not attended a "class" you do not know how to ride.

There were tens of thousands of us learned to ride before any license requirement or endorsement was even thought of. Yep, some of us are still riding and alive. I think the safety and beginners classes are better after you have learned to ride. There are good instructors and there are bad ones but it all comes down to your personal judgement and safety awareness in the end. I would have sold the bike to him and taken him to the country or a large Wally- World parking lot for some good old down home one on one instruction.

Jack

[AY4B]

I remember buying my first bike when I was like 21. I had never ridden or driven on one and went out and bought a 1975 Kawasaki 900 Z1. I had no one showing me anything. I cant even remember driving it home. I do remember teaching myself by repeatedly stopping and starting to develop muscle memory. I did not want to get it out in traffic and have to think about where the breaks were. I ended up putting about 50 miles on it that first night. The next day, I was going 120 down the highway. A few days later was pulled over doing in excess of 100. The cop did not even give me a ticket, he told me if he did, he would have to throw the book at me. I also only had a learners permit. He said drive it home and dont come back to his area. I did exactly that. We all have to learn the same way, get on and just do it. along the way we make mistakes. we cant blame anyone but ourselfs. I remember taking an s curve a little too fast and going over the handlebars at around 50. good thing I rolled along with my bike on a grassy median. I must have had my angels working overtime in those days.

[blacklightning]

I never took the official MSC, but I did take 2 of the courses taught by the local police, and highway patrol in N.C.. They went way above and beyond what was taught in the class and road work that was done at the local community college. I had a nephew that purchase a 2007 hayabusa new, and wrecked it on his way home. Another friend of mine was given a bike by his brother. I showed him how to ride it and shift gears in his yard. 2 weeks later he showed up at my house on a new $25k harley ultra classic.

[daveinva]

Thanks everybody for the kind words and strong opinions. I'm still torn about my call, but that's what happens with gut calls...

[mowin]

The only way I would have sold him the bike is if I delivered it to his house. I understand your "no house" cl rule, but seeing the kid did show up and had the cash, I'd would have made a exception.

[satownsendsr]

I also commend you for doing what you did. Not many people would have. They would have taken the money and felt fine about it. If he had gotten hurt or worse, they would have just shrugged it off as his fault for not having the experience or training to ride properly. I would have done the same thing. 👍

[jaherbst]

You buy your ticket and you take your chances. Those with poor judgement will die early if not on a motorcycle then an automobile or just walking across the street or die in bed with their best friends wife. I found out early on you cannot save someone from themselves.

Jack

[Dan McNally]

I commend your decision . . . if the kid is going to kill himself, you don't have to be a party to it. Lots of us learned to ride when we were young and dumb . . . and lots of our friends were severely injured or died in the process . . . but that doesn't make it right. I don't understand the "let them sink or swim" philosophy . . .

[ekfraz]

I had this happen before but in my case the young man said he has been riding for years, he did have a helmet with him and seemed like he new thr Ninja 650 so we go through the paperwork, calls his insurance and put liablity on it. He said he was familiar with everything on the bike,we get the paperwork and money exchanged and I told him good luck and be careful, he starts the bike and reves the engine to like 7000 rpm mad pops the clutch and ended destroying the bike when he ren into a large pine tree with the throttle was wide open. The bike was now his and totaled,he was ok but the bike was a 6,000.00 piece of scrap.