I need more power, Scotty!

[PMK]

find a bunch of old farts on baggers you will be OK. , Jim.

How to best sum up the reality that a Spyder RT series is no racer, awesome statement Jim.

PK

[sxonwls]

Right on. Add me too !

No, unfortunately Ken is not working on the new 1330, the original motors for the GS were transplanted from the 990 Aprilla street bike. The new 1330 is specific built by Bombardier so Kens wizardry is not applicable..

The best hope for 1330 performance upgrades is going to come from the snowmobile industry when Ski-doo releases it in their sleds, rumor has it they will be in the 2017 sleds. Then it will be how much power do you want because the turbo set ups that will be offered will easily be in the 230hp-260hp range on 92 octane.

[Nemesis]

No, unfortunately Ken is not working on the new 1330, the original motors for the GS were transplanted from the 990 Aprilla street bike. The new 1330 is specific built by Bombardier so Kens wizardry is not applicable..

The best hope for 1330 performance upgrades is going to come from the snowmobile industry when Ski-doo releases it in their sleds, rumor has it they will be in the 2017 sleds. Then it will be how much power do you want because the turbo set ups that will be offered will easily be in the 230hp-260hp range on 92 octane.

This sounds promising... I wonder if any work is being done in preparation for the 1330 being put in the 2017 sleds. Don't want to wait 2+ years lol. One thing I was interested in is the feasibility of a supercharger. It seems like that would be better suited than a turbo for the Spyder.

[jcthorne]

I would be very interested in a well engineered and tested turbo or supercharger kit for my F3. I think as the F3 sales grow, its market demographic will be more attuned to this type of upgrade and they will sell well. IF they are shown reliable.

[Rob Rodriguez]

I'm skeptical the 1330 will make an appearance in sleds. The only reason I say this is, the weight factor. The current crop of Rotax 4-strokes for sleds are too heavy and the 1330 isn't going to be any lighter. In stock form it doesn't put out that great a HP # either (a 600cc 2-stroke will walk all over it). Not much incentive for the sled buyer to move to the 1330 with stats like that.

Just to interject another thought into this. I don't understand why people are so willing to spend more $ (lots more, like thousands) to bring a stock engine (Spyder) closer to its full potential? I mean in my opinion Spyders are priced at a premium already (all models). Shouldn't I be receiving premium engine performance (or closer to it than it currently is) at the buy in price? Some of the responses here say BRP techs have said the motor is reliably capable of higher performance. If I'm paying a premium price for a Spyder shouldn't the factory be delivering that "reliable higher performance" already? No one buys a sports car thinking, "This car will really perform when I spend $5K on aftermarket upgrades on it". They buy the car expecting a certain level of performance out of the box.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I'm skeptical the 1330 will make an appearance in sleds. The only reason I say this is, the weight factor. The current crop of Rotax 4-strokes for sleds are too heavy and the 1330 isn't going to be any lighter. In stock form it doesn't put out that great a HP # either (a 600cc 2-stroke will walk all over it). Not much incentive for the sled buyer to move to the 1330 with stats like that.

Just to interject another thought into this. I don't understand why people are so willing to spend more $ (lots more, like thousands) to bring a stock engine (Spyder) closer to its full potential? I mean in my opinion Spyders are priced at a premium already (all models). Shouldn't I be receiving premium engine performance (or closer to it than it currently is) at the buy in price? Some of the responses here say BRP techs have said the motor is reliably capable of higher performance. If I'm paying a premium price for a Spyder shouldn't the factory be delivering that "reliable higher performance" already? No one buys a sports car thinking, "This car will really perform when I spend $5K on aftermarket upgrades on it". They buy the car expecting a certain level of performance out of the box.

....Rob life's a trade-off on many things ....this is one of them. Think about this, considering the Demographics of the Spyder what % of buyers would be SERIOUSLY interested in a 200 HP engine at the same cost ....if they were told the GAS mileage was going to be ....20 MPG ?????.......The speed limits in this country aren't going to be different for Spyder driver's.......And in the 1/4 mile maybe 1.5 seconds MAYBE !!!!......just my thoughts on this one .............Personally ...I LOVE THE BRAKES ..........Mike

[jcthorne]

Higher HP potential in the same engine and displacement does not necessarily mean lower fuel economy. The engine only makes the HP when the throttle is open. And that is a VERY small part of its operating time. Not Hwy cruising.

[Rob Rodriguez]

I think just as many people would be interested as those who wouldn't. If two Spyders of the exact same model (doesn't matter which model) where in the show room at the exact same price and one had 107 hp and one had 150 hp my guess is 75% of the people would go with the higher horsepower unit. They may not use the power but that's the one they would choose. If BRP only offered a 150 hp Spyder would you not buy it because it had 150 hp?

Currently BRP doesn't break up models by performance. It may say the RSS is the "performance" model but........... In reality Spyders are categorized by how you sit on them or what you can carry/store on them. Really, the performance of an RS, ST, RT or F3 is "about" the same.

One of the most common statements made about the F3 is, "its faster, or has more torque, or pulls harder than my old Spyder". So weather or not people want to admit they like that "more power" feeling it seems like most of them do. On the flip side, the HP rating of the 1330 isn't much different than the 990. I'm not saying I need 200 HP. Maybe 120 or 140 or 150 or maybe it doesn't need any more all at. I'm saying I want it to perform (accelerate, pull) better. I'm not looking to break the speed limit (although I typically do and that is because the limits are unrealistic) I'm saying I want to get to that speed limit faster.

If BRP offered me an RSS that had the same HP rating as the current model, had a top end of 100 mph, was the same price as the current model but accelerated with attitude between the speeds of 25 and 75 mph then I'd go buy one today. I agree this line of thinking may not be in line with the current Spyder demographic but maybe the current Spyder demographic is what it is because this line of thinking isn't being followed?

[Nemesis]

I want pavement wrinkling acceleration! I don't care about breaking 100 MPH. It's the 0-100 MPH that's the thrill

I agree that selling a detuned engine is unfair to the buyer. I assume BRP wants to sell a tamer product because it is safer and there is a lower chance of legal issues... It may also be cheaper to produce.

[Bob Denman]

I think just as many people would be interested as those who wouldn't. If two Spyders of the exact same model (doesn't matter which model) where in the show room at the exact same price and one had 107 hp and one had 150 hp my guess is 75% of the people would go with the higher horsepower unit. They may not use the power but that's the one they would choose. If BRP only offered a 150 hp Spyder would you not buy it because it had 150 hp?

Currently BRP doesn't break up models by performance. It may say the RSS is the "performance" model but........... In reality Spyders are categorized by how you sit on them or what you can carry/store on them. Really, the performance of an RS, ST, RT or F3 is "about" the same.

One of the most common statements made about the F3 is, "its faster, or has more torque, or pulls harder than my old Spyder". So weather or not people want to admit they like that "more power" feeling it seems like most of them do. On the flip side, the HP rating of the 1330 isn't much different than the 990. I'm not saying I need 200 HP. Maybe 120 or 140 or 150 or maybe it doesn't need any more all at. I'm saying I want it to perform (accelerate, pull) better. I'm not looking to break the speed limit (although I typically do and that is because the limits are unrealistic) I'm saying I want to get to that speed limit faster.

If BRP offered me an RSS that had the same HP rating as the current model, had a top end of 100 mph, was the same price as the current model but accelerated with attitude between the speeds of 25 and 75 mph then I'd go buy one today. I agree this line of thinking may not be in line with the current Spyder demographic but maybe the current Spyder demographic is what it is because this line of thinking isn't being followed?

Rob,
When have you EVER seen a Company fire all of it's best shots at once?
Give the 1330 a chance to grow...
Incremental changes always look better; they help to increase sales!
And Mike is right; it's all about balance...
They could EASILY pull an extra 50 or 60 horsepower out of this engine.
But would it give the same service life, and would you want to live with it on a daily basis?

[Wildrice]

I have a F3-S SME and I love it, but it really sucks that all my 2 wheel buddies just smoke a 1330cc bike with only 200lbs difference, whats up with some mods I am really looking at a Aerocharger with exhaust and power commander V.

Ideas? possibilities?

I've had 3 Hayabusa's 2003 on engine, 2006 on NOS, & currently considering selling my 2007 turbo busa with 340 rwhp & 200lb torque. I remember when the 186 mph speed de-restrictor mod came out & was back ordered by everyone. This kid comes into the owners speed shop & says he's got to have one now. the shop owner told him to take his bike out to 180 mph a few times & if he liked it--come back :-) Never saw the kid again :-) There's a lot to be done with ecu flashing but the remainder of the package also needs upgrades. The 1330 compression is too high to allow more boost--turbo or charger.repace the pistons-rods-valve springs, etc--Then the tranny needs reinforced, then the suspension. C16 fuel is $19/gal. endless $$ upgrades on a machine not designed for "Fast". Get another 10 hp with a better exhaust & have fun on a reliable ride.

[Rogue Hawk]

I want pavement wrinkling acceleration! I don't care about breaking 100 MPH. It's the 0-100 MPH that's the thrill

I agree that selling a detuned engine is unfair to the buyer. I assume BRP wants to sell a tamer product because it is safer and there is a lower chance of legal issues... It may also be cheaper to produce.

The F3 has the muscle bike look, but not the power. I would like to see a F3 that is like the VMax http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/mod...20max%2015.htm

[Nemesis]

I called DynoJet to ask about developing a Power Commander for the F3. They are looking for someone in the Las Vegas area with an F3 that they can borrow, in order to collect data. Any F3 is fine (either stock or with aftermarket enchancements).

You would just stop by their shop, they would hook up a data logging computer, then you would just ride over the next few days collecting data. In exchange they would give you a free Power Commander, set it up for you, and give you a custom map/tuning (probably a $1000+ deal).

If you are interested, call Dusty (the R&D lead) at 1-800-992-4993 ext: 1110

I am sorely tempted to take a week off work and travel down to Las Vegas... Unfortunately it would be a 2500 mile round trip.

If any of you live near Las Vegas and are willing to work with DynoJet to get a free Power Commander and custom tuning, give them a call. The sooner this gets done, the sooner the rest of us will have access to this tuning solution!

[Wildrice]

The poor man,s performance.
Some one will develop a nitrous kit and we'll get crazy power.
Some engines will have to be sacrificed n the process!

After all this takes place; some kid on a used cycle of some sort will blow us away.

We'll do it for fun ----- and not to be the fastest! It's the wrong device to be the fastest!

Thanks for listening
Carl

I've blown qty2 Hayabusa engines doing the 1 mile race using NOS during last 1/2 mile. To save the engine--one needs to back out 3-4 degrees of timing in the upper RPM range unless its just a short blast & the remainder of the engine--heads--rods--valves-trans--holdup

[Diamond Dave]

This might work

at 165-170 mph thats going to be real Sketchy !

[DrewNJ]

It's a shame to see an almost 2 year old thread that has basically gone unchanged.
You 1330 guys need to find a good tuner and get some performance out of that lawn mower.

We've been running a modified ECU for 2 seasons now and everything is very good. This is essentially a reflashed OEM ECU on a basically stock 990 that very closely mimics the Aprilia RSV Mille tune with a few tweaks, mainly to adjust to some hardware differences and to move the power lower in the rev range. It pulls hard and leaves a stock Spyder WAY behind. The best thing is that it's completely tame when needed too. Which is good because I don't ride it much anymore since my wife got her license.


Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[philkin]

I have a F3-S SME and I love it, but it really sucks that all my 2 wheel buddies just smoke a 1330cc bike with only 200lbs difference, whats up with some mods I am really looking at a Aerocharger with exhaust and power commander V.

Ideas? possibilities?

If you are expecting to run will sport bikes, it isn't going to happen! Relax, enjoy your Spyder for what it is.

[latinojj]

I come from the racing cycle world and was surprised how completely different the motors feel in an F3 and an RT with both being 1330cc. At spyderfest 2015 there was a very busy can-am tech guy and we got down to the bones about this motor. Here is what he shared. This motor is capable of spining an easy 10,500 to 11,00 rpm with the existing cam and bucket valve set up. With ECU, exhaust and intrack changes he says this motor has been getting 150 hp in factory testing. In a snowmobile motor they have gotten 175 hp.
He said, Both the F3 and especially the RT retard the timing to restrict power after 6,000 rpm where in the racing world you advance timing to get a compounding difference in engine performance. Kind of a liability thing.
He said, bottom line is this motor can dependably deliver easy 135 hp @ 10,500 rpm. It all starts with convincing company's that do ECU reflashing that there is enough interest to take on our system. And we need to convince company's like Dyno Jet to support our bikes with a product. Right now I don't find one on their site
Next winter I am sending my 2015 RT ECU out to my contact for the following changes.
1. get rid of the wait period before you can start the RT.
2. Change nanny to the F3 specs so I can lift a wheel in a corner.
3. knock out the government mandated fuel cut on closed throttle
4. Smooth out the timing curves to the suggested 7,500 redline. Mine is a touring bike after all

For your F3 want list it is no different than racing cycles.
1. Kill nanny and live on the edge. ECU
2. No cat and a good header and muffler.
3. 10,500 red line with full power curves in all gears. ECU
4. Knock out fuel cut. ECU
5. Fuel management system set up on a dyno machine. I can' find one for can-ams??

If we all call companys like this: http://ecunleashed.com/ and talk to tuners like this: http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/index.htm we can get the ball rolling and the rest will follw the money with the supporting products we need.

Just thought I would share what the tech told me not to do. Wink Wink

I am 100% with you Dennis!!!! I for one will be heading to those companies!!!!!! AGAIN... RIGHT ON !!!

[JayD]

I did not buy my RTS for speed. Maybe that's because I am an old guy. There is plenty of power to carry me, the bike and a loaded trailer up and down the Smoky Mountains.

[cmungen]

Look for nitrous kits that could be retro fitted to spiders fuel injection. Nitrous is the poor mans horsepower.

I have a F3-S SME and I love it, but it really sucks that all my 2 wheel buddies just smoke a 1330cc bike with only 200lbs difference, whats up with some mods I am really looking at a Aerocharger with exhaust and power commander V.

Ideas? possibilities?

[Bowtie41]

It's a shame to see an almost 2 year old thread that has basically gone unchanged.
You 1330 guys need to find a good tuner and get some performance out of that lawn mower.

We've been running a modified ECU for 2 seasons now and everything is very good. This is essentially a reflashed OEM ECU on a basically stock 990 that very closely mimics the Aprilia RSV Mille tune with a few tweaks, mainly to adjust to some hardware differences and to move the power lower in the rev range. It pulls hard and leaves a stock Spyder WAY behind. The best thing is that it's completely tame when needed too. Which is good because I don't ride it much anymore since my wife got her license.


Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Drew,
Please tell me more of the ECU upgrade!
Recently bought a bone stock '12 RT and would like a little more umph when riding 2 up.Unlike what some of the posters in this thread think,I am not looking to be the fastest or the quickest,but our bike lacks with 2 large riders trying to get on the interstate.Not looking for 150mph,or best 0-60 times,just better real world 30-80mph performance.Also don't want to have to change out pistons,cams etc.,just let it reach it's potential in stock engine form if possible.Thanks!

[CA Railwhale]

Add one of these.

Alright, who's sailing a Newport 41? I used to race on one of those. Nice boats.

[bobfeeney]

how about we just run 50% air plane fuel? truthfully my 550 1979 suzy can run away from the 1330

[MrBones]

Also alot is the driver. How well he or she knows how and when to race to get the most out of the machine. If it were easy we would all be #88.