BRP's Speaks Out On Some Common Spyder Problems

[KenAcker]

Had my 1,000 km service appointment yesterday at my Spyder dealer. Three of the problems I was having are shared with many of you so I figured I'd pass along the BRP responses. My mechanic discussed each of these problems with the BRP tech rep (or whatever they're called) and BRP's responses were as follows:

1. Cruising speed lurching (those of you that have it will know what I mean): According to BRP, the Spyder needs to be between 4,300 and 10,000 rpm to have proper power & torque. So, BRP's stand is that the lurching you're experiencing at 55 mph (in 5th gear) is because you're in the wrong gear. I find this very disconcerting. I also find it wrong in-as-much as my Spyder doesn't lurch at all at 2,400 rpm (in 5th gear!).

2. Spyder stalls on take-off unless it is over-reved and you feather the clutch slowly ... but only after it has warmed up (when it's cold, it takes off wonderfully): BRP ignored the caveat and simply said that the Spyder has a different weight/rolling resistance than a standard bike ... it has 3 wheels. I went immediately to the garage and counted. One ... two ... aaaaa ... there is it, three. Good God, they're right! Problem solved.

3. Possible performance degradation (including the aforementioned lurching problem) due to leaking exhaust gasket: No leaks were found and BRP says that they haven't "seen" any exhaust gasket problems in bikes with less than 6,000 miles. Furthermore, they said that a leaky exhaust gasket would not effect 4-stroke performance.

Is this BRP's first 4-stroke engine? That's actually a question ... I'm not trying to be a smartass.

Just letting you all know what BRP's "stand" is on these three issues. Make your own conclusions.

Ken

[NancysToy]

Sorry to hear that BRP was cold and unresponsive to your difficulties. I would like to comment on your issues, if I may.

1. Lurching: BRP is at least partially correct on this matter. Some machines have a pronounced throttle surge at certain rpms. This generally disappears on either side of the problem range. The BMW R1100RT and R150RT motorcycles are renowned for this. I know, I own one, and a friend sold his just because of this problem. Haven't really noticed it on our Spyder, though. The slightest deviation in the throttle body calibration or throttle adjustment makes it far worse. BRPs inabilty for the fuel curve mapping to be modified, even by the dealers, makes a fix nearly impossible. Replacement chips are not available for this machine. Your problem is not common to all Spyders, however, and you may want to keep leaning on the dealer. Try a demo and see if it does the same thing. If not, there's fuel for your fire.

2. Stalls When Warm: This is not the common situation. Most of us have stalling problems when cold, not warm. If you have an SE5, it could be clutch related. May change as the clutch wears. It can also be another symptom of badly out of calibration fuel injection. Same approach as before, try another machine to compare, and keep hammering on them that it is not typical, or right.

3. Leaking Exhaust: First, an exhaust leak is usually very easy to identify and locate, especially one that is large enough to cause problems. I think your difficulties lie elsewhere. BRP is correct in that a leaky exhaust won't directly cause problems in most four-stroke engines. A more free flowing exhaust usually enhances performance. On today's lean burning engines, however, it could have the opposite effect. If it is lean enough, it can be leaned further by an exhaust leak, and performance will suffer. Backfiring is often a symptom of this. Most exhaust related performance problems are due to an exhaust restriction, however, like a plugged cat converter. This will cause serious loss of power, but is more pronounced at higher rpms.

I strongly suggest you compare to another Spyder or two, and work with your dealer to resolve any issues, especially if the other machines don't exhibit the symptoms you have experienced.
-Scotty

[KenAcker]

Thanks, Scotty. I actually feel considerably better about my "ride" after reading your response. I'll see if I can find any other Spyder owners in my area (I don't think there are many, if any).

Ken

[bjt]

Those exhaust leaks really affect the way the engine runs. When they replaced my bad exhaust gasket, my Spyder ran noticeably better. Not just a little bit but a lot better, smoother, quieter. No more backfiring, which had become common with the stock exhaust. Plus I believe that all the extreme heat I was getting on the upper right side panel is gone. I think that all that hot exhaust pouring out from the leak was accumulating under that upper right panel.
It was uncomfortably hot. Almost too hot to touch.

It may not cause damage to the engine but it gives a bad rider experience.

[NancysToy]

Those exhaust leaks really affect the way the engine runs. When they replaced my bad exhaust gasket, my Spyder ran noticeably better. Not just a little bit but a lot better, smoother, quieter. No more backfiring, which had become common with the stock exhaust. Plus I believe that all the extreme heat I was getting on the upper right side panel is gone. I think that all that hot exhaust pouring out from the leak was accumulating under that upper right panel.
It was uncomfortably hot. Almost too hot to touch.

It may not cause damage to the engine but it gives a bad rider experience.

The fact that your engine ran better after the exhaust leak was fixed is probably an indication of an ultra-lean condition. It can also indicate that the leak is directly affecting the O2 sensor, throwing the fuel mapping off. The Spyder ECU's inflexible and narrow fuel mapping program would not let it adjust well to much of a change. The backfiring, or popping in a stock exhaust, is a clue that the exhaust leaks somewhere. If Ken's Spyder is exhibiting any popping, hot spots, or obvious signs of exhaust leaks, he should point that out to the dealer. It sure could provide a reason for his difficulties. If BRP and the dealer are correct, and the exhaust isn't leaking yet, the problems point to the ECU, sensors, throttle bodies, and injection components.
-Scotty

[SpyderByter]

BRP ignored the caveat and simply said that the Spyder has a different weight/rolling resistance than a standard bike ... it has 3 wheels. I went immediately to the garage and counted. One ... two ... aaaaa ... there is it, three. Good God, they're right! Problem solved.

Ken

Ken,

Do I note just a hint of sarcasm?

I got a good laugh anyway. Good to hear from you. I was afraid you sold the Spyder, and we would not hear from you anymore. How’s the job front?

Anyway, I am in your area, Southington, CT. Weathers getting nice, I have had it out quite a bit in the last few days.

I would be willing to meet somewhere if you want to compare. I have an SM5 with stock exhaust.

Mark

[bone crusher]

Scotty,

Your knowledge is impressive! You're a great asset to this board!

Sorry to hear that BRP was cold and unresponsive to your difficulties. I would like to comment on your issues, if I may.

1. Lurching: BRP is at least partially correct on this matter. Some machines have a pronounced throttle surge at certain rpms. This generally disappears on either side of the problem range. The BMW R1100RT and R150RT motorcycles are renowned for this. I know, I own one, and a friend sold his just because of this problem. Haven't really noticed it on our Spyder, though. The slightest deviation in the throttle body calibration or throttle adjustment makes it far worse. BRPs inabilty for the fuel curve mapping to be modified, even by the dealers, makes a fix nearly impossible. Replacement chips are not available for this machine. Your problem is not common to all Spyders, however, and you may want to keep leaning on the dealer. Try a demo and see if it does the same thing. If not, there's fuel for your fire.

2. Stalls When Warm: This is not the common situation. Most of us have stalling problems when cold, not warm. If you have an SE5, it could be clutch related. May change as the clutch wears. It can also be another symptom of badly out of calibration fuel injection. Same approach as before, try another machine to compare, and keep hammering on them that it is not typical, or right.

3. Leaking Exhaust: First, an exhaust leak is usually very easy to identify and locate, especially one that is large enough to cause problems. I think your difficulties lie elsewhere. BRP is correct in that a leaky exhaust won't directly cause problems in most four-stroke engines. A more free flowing exhaust usually enhances performance. On today's lean burning engines, however, it could have the opposite effect. If it is lean enough, it can be leaned further by an exhaust leak, and performance will suffer. Backfiring is often a symptom of this. Most exhaust related performance problems are due to an exhaust restriction, however, like a plugged cat converter. This will cause serious loss of power, but is more pronounced at higher rpms.

I strongly suggest you compare to another Spyder or two, and work with your dealer to resolve any issues, especially if the other machines don't exhibit the symptoms you have experienced.
-Scotty

[max continuous]

I wholeheartedly agree!
Thanks Scotty!

[The Breeze]

Has anyone experienced the gear indicator number fluctuating between your active gear and the "E" indicator?
I've only had my Spyder for 3 weeks. (It's been a great ride!) So, I am new to both the bike and the forum. I've made my dealer aware. They say it's o.k. to still ride while waiting for the replacement part to come in. I'm assuming they're correct.
I haven't seen any other postings for this problem. Has anyone else had this issue?

[spyder13]

I don't have these problems. I have Ken's set up and it illimenates these problems. I am at 63 lbs. fuel pressure and have the o2 sensor in.

[ataDude]

Yes! Read this thread in its entirety.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=7831

.

Has anyone experienced the gear indicator number fluctuating between your active gear and the "E" indicator?
I've only had my Spyder for 3 weeks. (It's been a great ride!) So, I am new to both the bike and the forum. I've made my dealer aware. They say it's o.k. to still ride while waiting for the replacement part to come in. I'm assuming they're correct.
I haven't seen any other postings for this problem. Has anyone else had this issue?

[The Breeze]

Thanks! Very enlightening. Looks like there's no harm in continuing to ride while waiting for the part to come in.
With my not being mechanically inclined , the SL forum will be one hell of a resource for me.

Thanks again.

[ataDude]

Just keep a cautious eye on the steering. The gear position sensor is one of six inputs to it.

.

Thanks! Very enlightening. Looks like there's no harm in continuing to ride while waiting for the part to come in.
With my not being mechanically inclined , the SL forum will be one hell of a resource for me.

Thanks again.