Front scrapping on driveways

[dginoregon]

Hi all, I have been riding my ST L for about a month and find that when I am going out a driveway from say a store, the front hits on the ground. Would stiffening the shocks (assuming this can be done) help? The tire pressures are correct. Or is this just the way it is? Thanks, Dean

[stevedfive]

You need a SpyderPops BumpSkid.

[FullCircle]

I have the same problem but if I enter and exit the roadway at an angle it helps.

[bmccaffrey]

I have the same problem but if I enter and exit the roadway at an angle it helps.

He is correct

[Chupaca]

the bumpskid is great protection but is pretty thick and will bump even more. Coming at them at an angle will help considerably and finding a better entrance/exit would be better. There are some stiffeners being tested and will work for your model. This could also help. He just posted..check with him..Doc Humphreys...

[spacetiger]

You are close to bottoming, the driveway transitions push you the rest of the way to allow the scraping to happen. You have to stiffen up the front end - that means stiffer springs. You can do this 2 ways, buy the nice aftermarket shocks (~$ 1,500 + for the pair) with the damping adjustability and stiffer springs OR change the springs for about $120. Here is a thread on how I approached the problem: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ont-Suspension

You did not indicate your weight - I am 205 without riding gear and I was bottoming out... I have not bottomed out since swapping out the front springs.

Post back what you do.

Jerry

[Netminder]

My 2012 RT bottomed out all the time, until I put elka shocks on! Have not scrapped since, and spyder pops bumpskid adds to the protection if you do, plus protects against critters!

[bscrive]

I just put in a couple of rubber spring spacers on my wife's STL and it lifted the front end about 1" and made the suspension a lot stiffer. They are only about $50 a pair and you can get them at any place that sells ATV parts.

[spacetiger]

The rubber wedges keep the spring from compressing between the coils they are wedged in between. That can help keep the bike from bottoming out (scraping the bottom of the chin of the bike), but the bike is still is in effect bottoming out as the wedges are simply reducing the amount the springs can compress. The use of rubber reduces (a bit) the impact you and the bike are going to experience every time you hit that new limit. You should know, since the wedges don't change the spring rates, you are going to "bottom out" a lot more often.

That said, these wedges are better to get than a bumpskid: The actually keep you from scraping the bottom. are cheaper, and easier to install; the downside, they don't solve the soft oem spring rate and don't look as cool as the bumpskid.

Edit: This is what changed springs look like. May not be as cool as the bumpskid, but it is probably the only spyder with this look... plus they are cheaper and actually keep you from bottoming + the bike handles in turns better...

Jerry

[Cruzr Joe]

Spyderpops bumpskid and take all driveways at an angle.

Cruzr Joe

[spacetiger]

Cruzr Joe - why would you tell someone to spend money that doesn't solve the problem and tell them to take these kinds of pavement transitions at an angle???? They could take these transitions at an angle without spending any money...

The bump skid only reduces the existing ground clearance so you are going to scrape a lot more if you don't address the problem.

[Roadster Renovations]

I have to take some spots at an angle. I also have the bumpskid (wouldn't be without it). It is substantially thicker (a good thing), but it will reduce the ground clearance. These units I am testing will be available next week after I ride the Dragon with them installed. So far they have exceeded my expectations. Each one will be hand made by me and will come with a lifetime warranty against defects. BRP actually reduced the diameter of the springs for the 2013-14. I checked these with a dial caliper. The 12's and under not only had adjustable springs, they were thicker. Problem softer ride and $$$ was the reason for the change. Which is great for someone weighing 100 lbs and just cruises. The baja ron sway bar was the best mod I put on there. Helped with the curves and air wash from semi's.

[Cruzr Joe]

Cruzr Joe - why would you tell someone to spend money that doesn't solve the problem and tell them to take these kinds of pavement transitions at an angle???? They could take these transitions at an angle without spending any money...

The bump skid only reduces the existing ground clearance so you are going to scrape a lot more if you don't address the problem.

I am a firm believer in the bumpskid, i have had one on all three of my Spyders and i know of at least two people who spent more than $1,000.00 fixing the front end of their Spyder after hitting curbs and busting up the front end. That is why i recommend that everyone put a bumpskid on their Spyder. There are several others out here that know the benefits and would recommend a Bumpskid.

Cruzr Joe

[spacetiger]

I am a firm believer in the bumpskid, i have had one on all three of my Spyders and i know of at least two people who spent more than $1,000.00 fixing the front end of their Spyder after hitting curbs and busting up the front end. That is why i recommend that everyone put a bumpskid on their Spyder. There are several others out here that know the benefits and would recommend a Bumpskid.

Cruzr Joe

Fair enough, I understand the logic of making that recommendation, but I think the best option is one that addresses the problem so you don't bottom out anymore. If you want to add the bumpskid you still can for the "insurance".

[PMK]

The rubber wedges keep the spring from compressing between the coils they are wedged in between. That can help keep the bike from bottoming out (scraping the bottom of the chin of the bike), but the bike is still is in effect bottoming out as the wedges are simply reducing the amount the springs can compress. The use of rubber reduces (a bit) the impact you and the bike are going to experience every time you hit that new limit. You should know, since the wedges don't change the spring rates, you are going to "bottom out" a lot more often.

That said, these wedges are better to get than a bumpskid: The actually keep you from scraping the bottom. are cheaper, and easier to install; the downside, they don't solve the soft oem spring rate and don't look as cool as the bumpskid.

Edit: This is what changed springs look like. May not be as cool as the bumpskid, but it is probably the only spyder with this look... plus they are cheaper and actually keep you from bottoming + the bike handles in turns better...

Jerry

Jerry, some of this info is not accurate.

First off, the most accurate is installing proper springs. Eibach makes a quality product and properly selected will give the means to a quality ride and good handling.

To better state some of your post,

The rubber wedges keep the spring from compressing between the coils they are wedged in between. (This increases the springs rate by manipulating active number of coils) That can help keep the bike from bottoming out (scraping the bottom of the chin of the bike), but the bike is still is in effect bottoming out as the wedges are simply reducing the amount the springs can compress. (You may be referring to coil bind as opposed to true bottoming on the cushion) The use of rubber reduces (a bit) the impact you and the bike are going to experience every time you hit that new limit. You should know, since the wedges don't change the spring rates, you are going to "bottom out" a lot more often. (Depends upon where the rubbers are positioned and explained below)

When rubbers or other devices are installed between coils, the effective length of wire is reduced and the spring rate will increase. If the rubber is positioned under the end of the spring or preload collar is adjusted to shorten the spring, the springs rate is unchanged since all coils and wire length are still active.

This was not meant to slam or discredit your post, rather the opposite. Your method of installing proper springs is, in my opinion the best means to a quality ride feel and handling. However preload increase or decrease is an extremely important tuning tool to fine tune ride height or sag.

Good choice on the Eibach, Hypercoils if available in the right dimensions are good also. FWIW, many suspension companies such as Race Tech will sell Eibach springs powder coated and badged as their own.

PK

[Duffer]

I don't think the OP is talking about bottoming out like hitting a bump too fast. He is talking about having insufficient clearance under the nose to maneuver a transition in the road without scraping. Same problem folks have when trying to drive onto the ramp of a trailer.

A skid plate will help protect the tupperware from damage as it will drag instead.
Approaching the 'ramp' at an angle helps as it gets one front tire climbing the ramp earlier.
Raising the front end with stiffer springs will help but will change your alignment so bear that in mind

and fyi....

Adding those rubber spacers under (or over) the spring will raise the ride height without changing the spring rate.
Adding those rubber spacers BETWEEN two coils will raise the ride height, but less so, and DOES change the spring rate. The springs get stiffer because rate is wire diameter X number of coils. Adding a block between coils eliminates the function of those coils as they can no longer flex. You now have a spring with the same wire diameter but effectively less coils = stiffer springs

Awwww, ya beat me to it!!!

[Bob Denman]

Just slow down, and "walk" the bike through the low spots at an angle...
These bikes aren't exactly blessed with an abundance of ground clearance; ride them as such...

[Magdave]

I don't think the OP is talking about bottoming out like hitting a bump too fast. He is talking about having insufficient clearance under the nose to maneuver a transition in the road without scraping. Same problem folks have when trying to drive onto the ramp of a trailer.

A skid plate will help protect the tupperware from damage as it will drag instead.
Approaching the 'ramp' at an angle helps as it gets one front tire climbing the ramp earlier.
Raising the front end with stiffer springs will help but will change your alignment so bear that in mind

and fyi....

Adding those rubber spacers under (or over) the spring will raise the ride height without changing the spring rate.
Adding those rubber spacers BETWEEN two coils will raise the ride height, but less so, and DOES change the spring rate. The springs get stiffer because rate is wire diameter X number of coils. Adding a block between coils eliminates the function of those coils as they can no longer flex. You now have a spring with the same wire diameter but effectively less coils = stiffer springs

Awwww, ya beat me to it!!!

So who makes a block to insert into the Spyder coils vs. a spacer. I do not want to raise the height but would like to stiffen up the spring?

[bscrive]

So who makes a block to insert into the Spyder coils vs. a spacer. I do not want to raise the height but would like to stiffen up the spring?

BajaRon is testing a product right now to do just this. Check out his thread on needing a test pilot.

[Bob Denman]

Ron's got something cooking... if you can be patient for a little while!

[coz]

put on a set of adjustable rt shocks. they will raise your front end and improve handling, they do ride rough though, at least they did on my gs.

[Bob Denman]

No doubt; a good set of Elkas can be set up to raise the front end a bit...
But if you're trying to work within a budget...

[mtdoragary]

The offset lower shock mounts not only improved my RT's handling, but also added about a half-inch clearance in front. Haven't scraped or scooped a dead possum since I installed them!

[spacetiger]

Jerry, some of this info is not accurate.

First off, the most accurate is installing proper springs. Eibach makes a quality product and properly selected will give the means to a quality ride and good handling.

To better state some of your post,

The rubber wedges keep the spring from compressing between the coils they are wedged in between. (This increases the springs rate by manipulating active number of coils) That can help keep the bike from bottoming out (scraping the bottom of the chin of the bike), but the bike is still is in effect bottoming out as the wedges are simply reducing the amount the springs can compress. (You may be referring to coil bind as opposed to true bottoming on the cushion) The use of rubber reduces (a bit) the impact you and the bike are going to experience every time you hit that new limit. You should know, since the wedges don't change the spring rates, you are going to "bottom out" a lot more often. (Depends upon where the rubbers are positioned and explained below)

When rubbers or other devices are installed between coils, the effective length of wire is reduced and the spring rate will increase. If the rubber is positioned under the end of the spring or preload collar is adjusted to shorten the spring, the springs rate is unchanged since all coils and wire length are still active.

This was not meant to slam or discredit your post, rather the opposite. Your method of installing proper springs is, in my opinion the best means to a quality ride feel and handling. However preload increase or decrease is an extremely important tuning tool to fine tune ride height or sag.

Good choice on the Eibach, Hypercoils if available in the right dimensions are good also. FWIW, many suspension companies such as Race Tech will sell Eibach springs powder coated and badged as their own.

PK

PK,

No worries on the clarification; I didn't state this as clear as I could have. And, yes, it makes a difference where you place the isolators (at end of spring or somewhere away from the spring ends) thanks for making that point.

Agree, preload changes to fine tune the suspension is important. My first try to sort out the suspension was to add an additional spacer to the front shocks. This did get the sag in an acceptable range, but the max load the front spring was not able to keep the front from bottoming out under certain conditions. For me, that was the signal to get better springs on the bike.

I wish there was more discusion like this to address all aspects of the bike to advance the "motorcyclist" that ride this bike. When the cost of putting the right springs on the bike is so cheap ($116), I cannot understand why no other rider has done this...

Jerry

[PMK]

PK,

No worries on the clarification; I didn't state this as clear as I could have. And, yes, it makes a difference where you place the isolators (at end of spring or somewhere away from the spring ends) thanks for making that point.

Agree, preload changes to fine tune the suspension is important. My first try to sort out the suspension was to add an additional spacer to the front shocks. This did get the sag in an acceptable range, but the max load the front spring was not able to keep the front from bottoming out under certain conditions. For me, that was the signal to get better springs on the bike.

I wish there was more discusion like this to address all aspects of the bike to advance the "motorcyclist" that ride this bike. When the cost of putting the right springs on the bike is so cheap ($116), I cannot understand why no other rider has done this...

Jerry

Not many riders fully understand suspension, let alone understand how to tune it. For many years I have always said, good suspension is simply the best compromise of each setting.

Spring swaps for different rider weights is not difficult and honestly should be worth considering for optimum safety and control.

PK