Optimal shifting range for the 1330

[Roadster Renovations]

I have been experimenting on higher shift points on my '14 RTS. It takes a little getting used to, but I am usually shifting at around 3,500 to 4,500. This seems a little strange tooling around town 35 mph in 2nd gear, or riding in 4th at highway speeds 50-65 mph, but the machine performs better, I like to added power availability if needed, and I find I am using the brakes much less, especially on curves. Setting up for the curves it allows me to quickly back off the throttle to hit the correct speed for the curve, and then plenty of power to accelerate out of the curves. I now have over 3,000 miles on the new machine and am loving the ride. I have also noticed that the higher RPM has almost completely stopped the belt vibration that I used to feel. What do the rest of your new '14 owners shift and run your machines at?

[PMK]

It just depends, but I certainly do not lug the engine to avoid rpm. I ride it more based on feel rather than science and overall am shifting similar to yourself.

Also, the only time it sees eco mode is after the toll plaza or on ramp on a bigger highway.

PK

[sddinnh]

I'm an old BMW rider, so I hate lugging engines. I shift between 3-4000, downshift by feel, and generally shoot for running at 3000. That makes it easy and keeps the engine in it's sweet spot. I used eco mode once when it was new and haven't used it since. I'm getting 200+ miles to a tank and that's fine with me. It stops me from staying on the bike too long

[lockwing]

I'm an old BMW rider, so I hate lugging engines. I shift between 3-4000, downshift by feel, and generally shoot for running at 3000. That makes it easy and keeps the engine in it's sweet spot. I used eco mode once when it was new and haven't used it since. I'm getting 200+ miles to a tank and that's fine with me. It stops me from staying on the bike too long

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ferrerid=12858
You will find lots of useful info here including shifting

[Myron Ah]

I bought a 2013 RT-S with the 998 this spring. The salesman said shift between 4000 and 5000 rpm and keep in that range. Was hard to do but I did it after awhile and went to 91 octane. My bike seems to run better and smoother and my mpg is around 31 steady. It is strange riding around in the lower gears but worth it.

[Bob Denman]

"Low & Slow", for my 2014 RTL...
I grab 2nd & 3rd at 2,000 rpm
4th, 5th & 6th at a touch under 2,500 rpm.
I don't understand the aversion to what is called "lugging" these engines.
It WON'T let you shift too early!
This seems far more like an exercise in rationalizing the higher shift point for performance reasons, and little else.
(Which is STILL fun; just call it what it is...)

[Topshotta]

At what RPM does the ACE 1330 idle?

[Roadster Renovations]

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ferrerid=12858
You will find lots of useful info here including shifting

Very good information there, Lockwing! I did however have some confusion about the difference between the 900 and the 1330. Probably old person brain fog! Anyway, I thought I would start this thread so I could see specifically what the other riders were doing with the new motor. It is said that the clutch does not fully lockup until 3,500 RPM, so I would think that should be the minimum regardless of the gear or speed to keep from premature clutch wear.

[SpyRyd]

At what RPM does the ACE 1330 idle?

900.

[PMK]

"Low & Slow", for my 2014 RTL...
I grab 2nd & 3rd at 2,000 rpm
4th, 5th & 6th at a touch under 2,500 rpm.
I don't understand the aversion to what is called "lugging" these engines.
It WON'T let you shift too early!
This seems far more like an exercise in rationalizing the higher shift point for performance reasons, and little else.
(Which is STILL fun; just call it what it is...)

Bob, sorry for the word lugging, you are correct it will not shift if the computer says no. The lugging term as I used is based not so much on the shift, but rather the ability to pull the gear. I know, I am going to get hammered about downshifts. I do and am not afraid to twist the grip.

Unlike a car, it can not auto downshift to unload the engine. The result is probably the computer sees the parameters such as selected gear, throttle position, and maybe manifold pressure, then watches knock sensors. Balancing all this, the computer decides how much power the engine is allowed to make by altering timing and fuel.

I am very comfortable on the KTM, pin the throttle, work the clutch and let dirt fly. I am comfy on the Spyder, sometimes long pulls in a gear, other times, short shifted and both having fun.

It's all good.

PK

[Bob Denman]

Actually; it kind of does!
I have had mine downshift as I roll the throttle on for an incline... Since I'm normally at the bottom end of the rpm range; I believe that BRP programmed this function in a couple of years' ago in an attempt to salvage some clutch life...

Try it! I'd suggest a sixth gear pull at 38 or 39 mph, and then roll it on hard! Let us know what it does.
My guess; it'll kick down.

[retired1]

Very good information there, Lockwing! I did however have some confusion about the difference between the 900 and the 1330. Probably old person brain fog! Anyway, I thought I would start this thread so I could see specifically what the other riders were doing with the new motor. It is said that the clutch does not fully lockup until 3,500 RPM, so I would think that should be the minimum regardless of the gear or speed to keep from premature clutch wear.

Doc;
The 3500rpm is referring to those with the 990. The 1330 has a different transmission behind it, which doesn't require the higher rpm's to avoid doing damage to the transmission.

[Roadster Renovations]

Doc;
The 3500rpm is referring to those with the 990. The 1330 has a different transmission behind it, which doesn't require the higher rpm's to avoid doing damage to the transmission.

Ahh, so has anyone figured out the most optimal way to shift these new trannys? And what is the best engine RPM to reduce bearing wear due to lugging?

[Bob Denman]

Nobody has worn one out yet... Bearing wear?
A lot of folks are hitting the paddles between 2,500, and 3,000 rpm.
I shift mine a lot lower than that, but give that range a try, and see if you like it!

[Roadster Renovations]

Shifting the 1330 models:

The “ECO” mode shift coach suggests shifting at the following rpm’s:
1st to 2nd: 1,800 rpm’s
2nd to 3rd: 1,950 rpm’s
3rd and up: 2,200 rpm’s

Most owners, and my personal experience, indicate shifting at or near 2500 rpm’s seems to be the preferred shift point; and it also happens to fall right at the beginning of the first-level power band. (Funny how that seems to work! See below.)

1330 Engine Power Band (Dyno-Chart Data):

1st level power band begins at approximately 2,500 — 2,700 rpm’s and remains flat until 4,000 rpm’s.
2nd level power band begins at approximately 4,500 — 4,700 rpm’s and peaks at 5,000 rpm’s.
After 5,000 rpm’s the power declines slightly until reaching 6,000 rpm’s; where the power rapidly declines; thus proving any increase in rpm’s above 6,000 rpm’s on the 1300 is inefficient and fruitless with regard to obtaining additional power and torque.

What does this mean?
It means shifting below 2,500 rpm’s can put an extra load on the machine when accelerating above a relaxed pace. While it may appear the engine has plenty of power below 2,500, it, in fact, is not producing peak performance power at that point, thus, shifting below the power band makes the engine work a bit harder. While the manual suggests shifting below 2,500 rpm’s, it is doing so with the thought the operator is accelerating at a very relaxed pace.
Some have a misperception with regard to shifting a machine within its peak power band. It is often perceived to require harder/faster acceleration; when, in fact, that is not the case.
It simply means you hold the machine in a gear longer before shifting. One does not have to takeoff from a dead stop like a drag racer to shift within a vehicle’s power band. Again, you simply hold it in each gear for a bit longer until the rpm’s reach the power band.
American’s have long been known to have a preference to low-torque machines. With that often comes the tendency to want to shift to a vehicle’s highest gear as soon as possible, and leave it there… at least until the engine begins to shake and shudder. Not a good idea with any vehicle.

Why is this important?
Over a short period of time and mileage, there would probably be little noticeable affect or damage to a machine operated below its power band under normal, relaxed conditions; however, over a longer-term, there certainly can be a excessive wear along the machine’s drivetrain.
In addition to seeking peak vehicle performance, expert/professional drivers & riders always operate their machines within its power band at all times for added control and handling. Consider it a safety precaution.
Any vehicle operated outside of its peak performance band is operated with some loss of control and efficiency — varying, of course, to the degree it is operated out of its power band.
For most owners of the 1330 engine, its lower torque seems to satisfy the inherent American “need” for an engine operating at a lower rpm.
NOTE: There is not a “Trailer Mode” for the 1300 model.

This information pretty much sums it all up! Very good stuff!

[Bob Denman]

Whatever it takes, to float your boat...
It's just my in-expert opinion; but you're over-thinking this...

[mindman]

I'm an old BMW rider, so I hate lugging engines. I shift between 3-4000, downshift by feel, and generally shoot for running at 3000. That makes it easy and keeps the engine in it's sweet spot. I used eco mode once when it was new and haven't used it since. I'm getting 200+ miles to a tank and that's fine with me. It stops me from staying on the bike too long

I've experimented a lot with the 1330 and I agree with you. It just doesn't FEEL right to shift under 3,000. It might be ok to do so, and it might be the way BRP designed it but I generally am pretty hard on the throttle. I don't pin it, but I enjoy rabbit starts. Iff I were to try to shift at 2500 I would probably have to go from 1st to 4th within a few seconds.

[Illinois Boy]

I have been experimenting on higher shift points on my '14 RTS. It takes a little getting used to, but I am usually shifting at around 3,500 to 4,500. This seems a little strange tooling around town 35 mph in 2nd gear, or riding in 4th at highway speeds 50-65 mph, but the machine performs better, I like to added power availability if needed, and I find I am using the brakes much less, especially on curves. Setting up for the curves it allows me to quickly back off the throttle to hit the correct speed for the curve, and then plenty of power to accelerate out of the curves. I now have over 3,000 miles on the new machine and am loving the ride. I have also noticed that the higher RPM has almost completely stopped the belt vibration that I used to feel. What do the rest of your new '14 owners shift and run your machines at?

Despite some on here that admit they do not think... I can see where you are wanting to operate your Spyder with some thought about performance and safety; and in a fashion other than as a golf-cart or a glorified 'Hoveround'.

The clutch lock-point at at 3200 (+/- 200) is not applicable to the 1330.

Enjoy your ride.

[robtdonna]

Can I presume the shift points are same for the SM6 as well as the SE6 ?

[The-BigDog-30]

I've experimented a lot with the 1330 and I agree with you. It just doesn't FEEL right to shift under 3,000. It might be ok to do so, and it might be the way BRP designed it but I generally am pretty hard on the throttle. I don't pin it, but I enjoy rabbit starts. Iff I were to try to shift at 2500 I would probably have to go from 1st to 4th within a few seconds.

I agree, I hardly ever shift below 3,000, it would take forever at a slow pace to get somewhere shifting under 2,500

[PMK]

Actually; it kind of does!
I have had mine downshift as I roll the throttle on for an incline... Since I'm normally at the bottom end of the rpm range; I believe that BRP programmed this function in a couple of years' ago in an attempt to salvage some clutch life...

Try it! I'd suggest a sixth gear pull at 38 or 39 mph, and then roll it on hard! Let us know what it does.
My guess; it'll kick down.

I will. This is something I had not heard. Kind of has me wondering then, why when this came up before about roll on and more power, I wonder if it will do an auto downshift at a given throttle setting.

I appreciate your knowledge and new things for me to test. Maybe later today if th rain stays away.

PK

[3 Wheel Addict]

I have only had mine for a very short time but I'm liking it a lot! In my opinion they have got real close to the Goldwing as far as power and delivery of that power, it's real impressive the low end pull it has.

[ARtraveler]

I have mentioned my shift points in other threads, but seems appropriate here also.

I don't like Eco mode--so do not use it.

I am one who has now gone to between 2500 - 3000. Mostly 2750 +. I like the sound and feel of the engine at the 3000 point. It also seems to me that is where the engine is "waking up."

Fuel economy wise, on a 168 mile trip yesterday I got 40 mpg. I am now getting consistent 40 mpg readings. 5500 miles on the odometer. When climbing a steep incline, I usually keep the machine at the 3000 rpm range and do not shift up to the next highest gear. This gives a pulling feel, rather than a lugging feel.

Thanks to others for input also. I may experiment with slightly higher shift points because of my liking of the power band.

[MidTNDawg]

but with my 2014 RT Ltd, I shift up and down whenever I want to do so. I never really liked having to shift by a computer. I just really enjoy my ride now.

[Bob Denman]

Can I presume the shift points are same for the SM6 as well as the SE6 ?

They are...

The 998s with the SM-5 tranny could also shift wherever they felt like... The "Keep it about 3,200 (3,500 whatever!) rpm level" caveats, only applied to the SE-5s. That was only to preserve the clutch plates; it had little or nothing to actually do with the engine.