A while back it was generally accepted that Castrol was the supplier and that the summer BLEND was a 10-40 and the winter SYNTHETIC was a 5-40.
Castrol is one of the few that make a motorcycle synthetic in 5-40. However, not long ago when I mentioned the above, someone (forget who) corrected me and said BRP had changed their supplier a couple years ago. Thats why I mentioned Bel Ray above.
How long ago was it that you saw the pallet of Castrol?
Do I believe BRP makes their own oil? Absolutely not!
Do I believe they spent a million or so developing it? Absolutely not...marketing hype is the name of the game.
How will we know how good their Blended oil is? When DocHumprey gets his lab report back, that will go a long way to tell us what the quality is. If it comes back showing the viscosity is still 40W or near that, I'll post an apology to everyone and beg BRP's forgiveness for doubting them!
Furthermore, I'll provide a prepaid test kit to anyone who does their own oil changes and has 9000 miles on the Blend if they will send it in and post the results here.
You'll need to get the sample immediately when it starts draining (not out of the drain container as that would be contaminated), or preferably siphon some out with a clean hose.
Any takers?
PS: I'm not knocking BRP oil. I'm saying that I firmly believe that NO approved motorcycle oil, whether its Blended, full synthetic, or Dino, will make it to 4000 miles maintaining its viscosity of 40W in either the 998 or 1330 motor.
In answer to your question -
I started this thread about the results of BRP's blended oil after 6000 miles. Every thing looked good, but it sheared DOWN TO 20w.
It did not hold it's 40w rating!
In one week I will be changing my oil again and sending in a sample of Mobil 1 10-40 full synthetic that will also have 6000 miles on it to be tested. I will report the results when I receive that report back.
At this oil change I will be trying the BRP full synthetic 0-40w oil and will do the same in 6000 miles. The results of this one will not happen until next year as winter is fast approaching.
The reason I am doing this is to find the best oil for me to use.
I am very interested in hearing Doc's results as well.
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Isn't it weird that in AMERICA our flag and our culture offend so many people...... but our benefits don't?
So what about full synthetic being to slick for the clutch? Or is that a bunch of ?
5800 miles on full synthetic with out any issues and yesterday I purchased BRP's full synthetic from the lead Spyder tech at the dealer and he sure did not give me any BS about it not working with the clutch.
Short answer to your question is - Yes it is a bunch of
2021 Sea To Sky, 2020 RTL
Isn't it weird that in AMERICA our flag and our culture offend so many people...... but our benefits don't?
APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil is recommended for liquid or air-cooled 4-stroke engines. It meets SAE 80W/90, API GL-1 gear oil requirements and is recommended for transmissions on both 4- and 2-stroke motorcycles. AMSOIL MCF is recommended for Honda®, Kawasaki®, Yamaha®, Suzuki®, BMW®, Husqvarna®, Victory® and other motorcycles where 10W-40 or 20W-40 engine oils or SAE 80W/90, GL-1 gear oils are used. Not recommended where an API GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil is required. Provides Excellent Wet Clutch Performance
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil contains no friction modifiers and promotes smooth shifting and positive clutch engagement. AMSOIL MCF controls heat and prevents slippage and glazing, helping improve clutch life. AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil meets the wet clutch frictional requirements of JASO Standard T903: 2006, MA/MA2 and ISO-L-EMA2 of ISO Standard 24254:2007.
.10w40 cycle.jpg
I got the kit from Napa. In the container there were 3-4 different addresses that you could use to ship to. I figured that the lab in Ohio would be the closest, so the report would come back quicker. Still waiting...... The actual name of the lab is down at the shop. I'll post it tomorrow. They need to hurry up!
APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil is recommended for liquid or air-cooled 4-stroke engines. It meets SAE 80W/90, API GL-1 gear oil requirements and is recommended for transmissions on both 4- and 2-stroke motorcycles. AMSOIL MCF is recommended for Honda[emoji768], Kawasaki[emoji768], Yamaha[emoji768], Suzuki[emoji768], BMW[emoji768], Husqvarna[emoji768], Victory[emoji768] and other motorcycles where 10W-40 or 20W-40 engine oils or SAE 80W/90, GL-1 gear oils are used. Not recommended where an API GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil is required. Provides Excellent Wet Clutch Performance
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil contains no friction modifiers and promotes smooth shifting and positive clutch engagement. AMSOIL MCF controls heat and prevents slippage and glazing, helping improve clutch life. AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil meets the wet clutch frictional requirements of JASO Standard T903: 2006, MA/MA2 and ISO-L-EMA2 of ISO Standard 24254:2007.
.10w40 cycle.jpg
Amsoil is not a full synthetic it is 100% synthetic.Does anyone in really know the difference between the full and the 100%?
Not sure if your question is straight up or rhetorical. I'll treat it as the former.
After the Castrol vs Mobil 1 lawsuit decision, this has become a very murky subject.
Before the lawsuit an oil had to be specifically 'Engineered' at the refining stage to be called 'Synthetic', which Mobil 1 (and a few others) were.
Castrol started taking standard, Type III mineral based oil and combining it with an additive package. Kind of like taking standard oil and adding Slick 50 or STP to it. A bit crude but it gets the general point across. Castrol marketed this product as 'Synthetic'. Since this required a less expensive production process, Castrol was able to sell this oil for less than the True Synthetics like Mobil 1, Amsoil, etc.
So, Mobil 1 sued Castrol for misleading marketing and false advertising. At the time everyone thought it was a slam dunk for Mobil 1 since it was considered ridiculous that a non-synthetic oil could be marketed as 'Synthetic'. But, to the surprise of many, Castrol prevailed. So now you have 2 very different oils both being marketed as 'Synthetic'. Very confusing. This is only legal in the US. No other country allows a Castrol like product to be marked as 'Synthetic'.
The quality of what I call Doctored Dyno Oil depends on the additive package which is designed to protect the inferior Type III mineral oil because it breaks down too quickly. When the additive package goes away, so does your lubrication. Some additive packages are very good. Others are not. But they will all be sold as 'Synthetic'.
Since engineered synthetic oils like Mobil 1 and Amsoil are much stronger, they need little or no additives or modifiers.
All of today's modern oils are light years ahead of lubricants from the past. And a good thing too because the stress placed on lubricants from today's power plants is much greater than in the past. Most any 'Synthetic' oil will do a good job regardless of which method of production is used as long as you change it frequently enough.
Typically, a Type IV, engineered synthetic will out last and out lubricate a Type III additive package synthetic oil.
Just and FYI, many of the products Mobil One markets are now Type III. Some are Type IV but not all. The old Mobil lubricants division is long gone. Mobil One is just a marketing brand for ExxonMobil now. They now market a range of products under that label.
Through testing, we have also found that not all Type IV synthetics are necessarily 'better' than all Type IIIs. Case in point for our shop was Mobil Delvac One vs Shell Rotella T6. The Delvac One used to be a terrific product up until the time Exxon took over. Long about 2001 or 2002, the quality changed and so did the lab results. (This was also about the time of the marketing scandal lawsuit previously mentioned) Many guess that Exxon changed the formula of Delvac One from a true type IV to a type III (which they had very little experience with having always marketed Type IV full synthetics). No one outside the company really knows. Lots of folks were warned by several of the testing labs based on very poor test results to switch brands. This is how we started using Rotella T6 (was called Rotella Synthetic back then) and have since with great lab results histories to show for it.
The point of all this rambling is, its not as simple as Type IV is great, Type III is not so good. There are great Type III Synthetics and there are poor Type IV oils. Oh, and Type III oils are not simply conventional oils with an additive package. They are much more highly refined than that, the difference is Type IIIs are indeed refined from crude oil stocks. Type IV oils are refined from various 'plastics' (esters).....which were themselves refined from crude oil and natural gas stocks. Very different processes and the type IIIs are indeed cheaper to produce, but again, not necessarily not as good.
Just and FYI, many of the products Mobil One markets are now Type III. Some are Type IV but not all. The old Mobil lubricants division is long gone. Mobil One is just a marketing brand for ExxonMobil now. They now market a range of products under that label.
True.
Originally Posted by jcthorne
Through testing, we have also found that not all Type IV synthetics are necessarily 'better' than all Type IIIs.
True.
Originally Posted by jcthorne
The point of all this rambling is, its not as simple as Type IV is great, Type III is not so good. There are great Type III Synthetics and there are poor Type IV oils. Oh, and Type III oils are not simply conventional oils with an additive package. They are much more highly refined than that, the difference is Type IIIs are indeed refined from crude oil stocks. Type IV oils are refined from various 'plastics' (esters).....which were themselves refined from crude oil and natural gas stocks. Very different processes and the type IIIs are indeed cheaper to produce, but again, not necessarily not as good.
True.
Not attempting to be the final word in any oil conversation as there are a lot of details in all of this. And things are changing all the time. Just saying that my research agrees with yours.
I did, admittedly, paint with a broad brush in my post. Results can buck the trend on a product by product basis.
Just and FYI, many of the products Mobil One markets are now Type III. Some are Type IV but not all. The old Mobil lubricants division is long gone. Mobil One is just a marketing brand for ExxonMobil now. They now market a range of products under that label.
Through testing, we have also found that not all Type IV synthetics are necessarily 'better' than all Type IIIs. Case in point for our shop was Mobil Delvac One vs Shell Rotella T6. The Delvac One used to be a terrific product up until the time Exxon took over. Long about 2001 or 2002, the quality changed and so did the lab results. (This was also about the time of the marketing scandal lawsuit previously mentioned) Many guess that Exxon changed the formula of Delvac One from a true type IV to a type III (which they had very little experience with having always marketed Type IV full synthetics). No one outside the company really knows. Lots of folks were warned by several of the testing labs based on very poor test results to switch brands. This is how we started using Rotella T6 (was called Rotella Synthetic back then) and have since with great lab results histories to show for it.
The point of all this rambling is, its not as simple as Type IV is great, Type III is not so good. There are great Type III Synthetics and there are poor Type IV oils. Oh, and Type III oils are not simply conventional oils with an additive package. They are much more highly refined than that, the difference is Type IIIs are indeed refined from crude oil stocks. Type IV oils are refined from various 'plastics' (esters).....which were themselves refined from crude oil and natural gas stocks. Very different processes and the type IIIs are indeed cheaper to produce, but again, not necessarily not as good.
....Thanks JC for confirming my choice in oil....Rotella T-6..............At Walmart approx. $23 per Gallon, I don't think you can buy a better Full Syn Oil for less..Mike
....Thanks JC for confirming my choice in oil....Rotella T-6..............At Walmart approx. $23 per Gallon, I don't think you can buy a better Full Syn Oil for less..Mike
I use it in everything we own EXCEPT our 2013 Spyders. Lab results always great. Still unsure about its use on the older Spyders with the centrifugal clutch. Not enough data either way and its a small amount of oil in the overall scheme of things. We will stick with the Valvoline Motorcycle Synthetic there for now. In your 1330, I don't think you could pick a better oil. It will stand up to shear as well as any out there. Diesels are tough on oils and contain as many gears as your transmission and under much higher load to shear the oil. Its nothing new in that market. There are other good oils out there too, but its nice to be able to stock ONE and use it in most everything. Lawn mowers to my GT and everything in between......
Napa couldn't tell me the name (yet) and I cannot find my paperwork. I may be out that $15. I sent a request in to Blackstone for a container. May have to send in the sample I have in the bike now. Oil and filter will need changed within 1200 miles. Soon after Spyder in the Smokies I will do so.
Napa couldn't tell me the name (yet) and I cannot find my paperwork. I may be out that $15. I sent a request in to Blackstone for a container. May have to send in the sample I have in the bike now. Oil and filter will need changed within 1200 miles. Soon after Spyder in the Smokies I will do so.
Pretty sure NAPA sells the Wix kit and Wix uses "ALS" which is a major lab with test centers in several states. Since I live nearest to the one in Atlanta Ga that is where I send mine. It has taken up to two full weeks or a little more at times but normally about 10 working days to get an email report. If you sent it in the container it may have got lost or misrouted by the PO. Again, that happened to one of my first ones and from then on I put them in a brown envelope and have had no problems. If you can find where you sent it, email them or call with the report number and you should get a reply.
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2014 RT(white)
2016 F3T(red)
2022 RT current ride(silver)
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Pretty sure NAPA sells the Wix kit and Wix uses "ALS" which is a major lab with test centers in several states. Since I live nearest to the one in Atlanta Ga that is where I send mine. It has taken up to two full weeks or a little more at times but normally about 10 working days to get an email report. If you sent it in the container it may have got lost or misrouted by the PO. Again, that happened to one of my first ones and from then on I put them in a brown envelope and have had no problems. If you can find where you sent it, email them or call with the report number and you should get a reply.
i followed up with the main number to the lab and the guy had no record. He did say that they have problems with the PO only delivering them when they have several. He said my best bet was to use Fed-ex or Ups next time. I'm going to give it another week then check again. Probably in 2 weeks it will be time to change the oil and filter again. If nothing else, I should have the Blackstone container by then. Would have been nice if they had rec'd UPS in the instructions.....
It's been long enough now that the have obviously lost my oil sample. I received the Blackstone labs sample bottle and will use it the next time I change oil, probably next week. When sending off to Blackstone, what carrier should I use? Obviously, USPS is not a reliable option. I have about 5,500 on this oil and am getting close to 9,300 on the filter by next week. Bike is still shifting great (SE6) and checking the oil yesterday it looks almost brand new. Not going to take chances, though on the shearing, so I'll change and send it in.
It's been long enough now that the have obviously lost my oil sample. I received the Blackstone labs sample bottle and will use it the next time I change oil, probably next week. When sending off to Blackstone, what carrier should I use? Obviously, USPS is not a reliable option. I have about 5,500 on this oil and am getting close to 9,300 on the filter by next week. Bike is still shifting great (SE6) and checking the oil yesterday it looks almost brand new. Not going to take chances, though on the shearing, so I'll change and send it in.
Doc I use UPS and I put the bottle into a small box to ship as I do not trust that a bottle that size will make it to them wihthout getting lost. If fact I sent them a sample yesterday of the Mobil 1 with 6235 miles on it. I will report that after I get the results back.
I agree about the shearing as my BRP oil sheared down to 20w at 6000 miles. I am very interested in what your report shows.
2021 Sea To Sky, 2020 RTL
Isn't it weird that in AMERICA our flag and our culture offend so many people...... but our benefits don't?
Doc I use UPS and I put the bottle into a small box to ship as I do not trust that a bottle that size will make it to them wihthout getting lost. If fact I sent them a sample yesterday of the Mobil 1 with 6235 miles on it. I will report that after I get the results back.
I agree about the shearing as my BRP oil sheared down to 20w at 6000 miles. I am very interested in what your report shows.
.....Sorry but I've lost track ( so many posts etc. ) which BRP oil did you have tested regarding above ( Blended or Full Syn ? ) ...................Thanks ......Mike
.....Sorry but I've lost track ( so many posts etc. ) which BRP oil did you have tested regarding above ( Blended or Full Syn ? ) ...................Thanks ......Mike
Blended.
I now have their full Syn in my Spyder and will test that in 6000 miles also, but since winter in knocking on the door here it will be next year before I have those results.
In order to keep this post small I will start a new post each time I get a report back.
2021 Sea To Sky, 2020 RTL
Isn't it weird that in AMERICA our flag and our culture offend so many people...... but our benefits don't?
It's been long enough now that the have obviously lost my oil sample. I received the Blackstone labs sample bottle and will use it the next time I change oil, probably next week. When sending off to Blackstone, what carrier should I use? Obviously, USPS is not a reliable option. I have about 5,500 on this oil and am getting close to 9,300 on the filter by next week. Bike is still shifting great (SE6) and checking the oil yesterday it looks almost brand new. Not going to take chances, though on the shearing, so I'll change and send it in.
Doc, I have been using USPS for my Blackstone samples for a few years with no problems. I put the Blackstone packaging in one of the USPS Express mail envelopes for their flat rate and the lab has it in 3 days.
Doc, I have been using USPS for my Blackstone samples for a few years with no problems. I put the Blackstone packaging in one of the USPS Express mail envelopes for their flat rate and the lab has it in 3 days.
CJ JAX
Ditto. I use a brown puffy envelope and send it Priority so I have a tracking number.
Two Wheelers from 1963-2011
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2014 RT(white)
2016 F3T(red)
2022 RT current ride(silver)
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2019 Slingshot
Finally got the results back and they are cautioning me on the BRP oil. Since this oil only had 4,000 miles on it and had dropped down into a 20 weight, if nothing else I will not be changing at 9,300 miles. Here are the reports and a copy of Bob the oil guys chart (thanks, Bob!) oi.1.jpg oil.2.jpg
Not sure what I am going to do. Thinking about Mobil 1 full syn for motorcycles, but if there is any chance of an issue with the clutch on the SE6, I won't. All I know is that this oil has halved it's viscosity in 4,000 miles. I will send in the new sample when I change it next week which is BRP oil. Maybe one of you guys with more experience in this than me can give me some ideas.
Last edited by Roadster Renovations; 10-26-2014 at 10:43 AM.
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Originally Posted by ulflyer
?
have obviously lost my oil sample. I received the Blackstone labs sample bottle and will use it the next time I change oil, probably next week. When sending off to Blackstone, what carrier should I use? Obviously, USPS is not a reliable option. I have about 5,500 on this oil and am getting close to 9,300 on the filter by next week. Bike is still shifting great (SE6) and checking the oil yesterday it looks almost brand new. Not going to take chances, though on the shearing, so I'll change and send it in.
I will start a new post each time I get a report back.
