Hard turning

[ahh-cool]

I'm looking into the anti sway bars but not really sure what they fix.
I feel that during a turn I'm riding a four wheeler. It does not feel smooth.
It seems to be better now that I have some more miles under my seat.
Just trying to figure this all out
Stefan

[sjcpanther]

What model Spyder do you have?

That's what I felt when I first got my 2012 RT. I added the BajaRon sway bar, and it made a world of difference around the curves. I also recently did the laser alignment, and that helped a ton as well.

[Bob Denman]

BajaRon sells the best Anti-SwayBar on the market for Spyders!
They're even pretty easy to install on your bike...
(I managed to nail one into place on my 2010 with VERY little bloodshed! )

[Chupaca]

hard turnning could mean your dps is not working properly. Usually you would have warnings if so but worth checking if this is something new and tire pressure can also cause this. Now as stated above the sway bar is an amazing improvement in the handling while ryding the open road.

[SpyderAnn01]

An alignment will help.

[robmorg]

What model Spyder do you have?

That's what I felt when I first got my 2012 RT. I added the BajaRon sway bar, and it made a world of difference around the curves. I also recently did the laser alignment, and that helped a ton as well.

I'm scheduled to have the laser alignment done next week. The advantage of that makes sense and is easily understood. But as for the BajaRon Anti-sway bar, EVERYBODY says it "makes a world of difference", but nobody ever seems to describe what KIND of difference or exactly what it corrects.

My sentiments (and questions) are exactly like Stefan's. I've got over 1500 miles on my Spyder now, and like everybody else, it took some time to get used to the forces in the turns. But once you learn the basics, like how NOT to grip the bars, how to lean your body forward and into the turn, and how to manage the throttle and brake while turning, etc., riding the Spyder becomes both quite manageable and extremely enjoyable. On the highways and straight-a-ways, my Spyder now runs true and smooth - never sways. In the turns, nobody expects it to turn like a motorcycle.

Please understand that I'm not being critical of the anti-sway bar. In fact, I'm open to anything that will make my Spyder even more enjoyable than it already is. But (other than trying to reduce the heat ) I'm not into throwing money at things without some sense of why I "need" them.

So... could someone please attempt to put into words why Stefan and I (and anyone else who may be wondering) needs an anti-sway bar, and exactly what good things to expect after adding it, once you learn the basics of riding a Syder?

[Magdave]

In short stiffer sway bar prevents the inside tire in a turn from lifting and the need to compensate by leaning. It keeps both tires flat by using Ron's bar and less leaning. Think Corvette vs. Cavalier both have sway bars but the Corvette's is much larger and stiffer so both tires stay flat on the road in a turn. I rarely lean in turns anymore I just lean back on my back rest unless it is a tight one. I always had to lean before the install.

[robmorg]

In short stiffer sway bar prevents the inside tire in a turn from lifting and the need to compensate by leaning. It keeps both tires flat by using Ron's bar and less leaning. Think Corvette vs. Cavalier both have sway bars but the Corvette's is much larger and stiffer so both tires stay flat on the road in a turn. I rarely lean in turns anymore I just lean back on my back rest unless it is a tight one. I always had to lean before the install.

Dave,

Your explanation above was concise and to the point. Thanks much! Also, if a picture is worth 1000 words, then a video is worth 1000 pictures. The video you attached REALLY did a nice job of explaining how a sway bar works. Thanks again! Here is another video that shows "before and after" results on a car, which is also helpful in understanding the dynamics at play here.

Still a bit puzzled by one thing... In looking at the shop manual for my RT, I see that BRP already added a sway bar (which they call a "stabilizer bar") attached to the suspension with a link bar at each end. I don't want to "over-think" this, but I wonder why they didn't just make that one large or stiff enough to do the job?? Is there a trade-off involved here? I wonder if BRP was perhaps concerned that making the stabilizer bar too stiff would induce understeering when turning while adding throttle (which is the natural thing to do on a motorcycle).

[SpyderAnn01]

Yes, your Spyder comes with an anti sway bar but it is a smaller diameter than the Baja Ron bar. It is just - adequate - nothing more. In this case bigger is better!

(The OEM links, however, are barely adequate and should be replaced with the billet aluminum ones that BajaRon sells. Plastic = not good Billet Aluminum = very good)

[robmorg]

Thanks, Ann.

[bruiser]

I agree with what everyone said. There is a world of difference in the turns.

[ahh-cool]

I'm scheduled to have the laser alignment done next week. The advantage of that makes sense and is easily understood. But as for the BajaRon Anti-sway bar, EVERYBODY says it "makes a world of difference", but nobody ever seems to describe what KIND of difference or exactly what it corrects.

My sentiments (and questions) are exactly like Stefan's. I've got over 1500 miles on my Spyder now, and like everybody else, it took some time to get used to the forces in the turns. But once you learn the basics, like how NOT to grip the bars, how to lean your body forward and into the turn, and how to manage the throttle and brake while turning, etc., riding the Spyder becomes both quite manageable and extremely enjoyable. On the highways and straight-a-ways, my Spyder now runs true and smooth - never sways. In the turns, nobody expects it to turn like a motorcycle.

Please understand that I'm not being critical of the anti-sway bar. In fact, I'm open to anything that will make my Spyder even more enjoyable than it already is. But (other than trying to reduce the heat ) I'm not into throwing money at things without some sense of why I "need" them.

So... could someone please attempt to put into words why Stefan and I (and anyone else who may be wondering) needs an anti-sway bar, and exactly what good things to expect after adding it, once you learn the basics of riding a Syder?

I couldn't have said it better.
I will definitely do the laser alignment as soon as I find someone near me that does it
Stefan

[robmorg]

I agree with what everyone said. There is a world of difference in the turns.

Thanks!

[PMK]

An alignment will help.

Agree, actually help is an understatement when going from a darty and sometimes less predictable setup to good handling.

PK

[PMK]

There are several actions and reactions occurring in the front suspension as we ride.

The front spring rate, is preset, and designed around a given weight of rider and payload.

The damping of the shocks is or should be designed around the spring rate.

The steering geometry of the linkage, wheel toe, and other factors contribute to how the machine can feel left or right of straight.

Frame designed stiffness and flex.

And the stabilizer bar diameter and mounting points.

Every motorcycle built, car, truck or whatever starts on a best predictable guess of the items listed above based on the "standard rider, intended use and payload".

If your riding style is less aggressive or more aggressive, something may require a change.

If you are lighter or heavier than the designed rider weight, something may require a change.

If your riding position is full upright vs leaned forward.

In simple terms, the stabilizer bar is utilized to help force the Spyder to corner more flat or more upright, less body roll. Almost to the point of increasing spring rate to the outside wheel when turning. This added rate, will help control other parameters in the steering geometry such as bump steer. Bump steer is a change in toe as the wheel is compressed or extended. This negatively effects handling.

Also, consider that a heavier rider, or a taller rider positions the center of gravity in a higher location. This further leverages the suspension components by using more wheel movement when cornering.

Can stabilizer bar work too well and cause understeer, yes. Can a stabilizer bar be removed and cause unsafe amounts of body roll, yes.

In the end, evaluate how you compare to the probable standard / typical designed for rider. But most importantly, start out with a good accurate tire gauge and ensure a tire pressure that works well.

I want to buy and try a larger stabilizer bar, but have held off. I will say that when I added the much heavier Corbin seat, backrest, and trunkrest, probably an added 25 pounds or more based on lifting it, the change in handling was felt. For now I increased tire pressure 1psi.

Hope it helped.

PK

[robmorg]

PK,

All VERY good points that do indeed clarify the overall picture - especially your points about the "standard rider, intended use and payload". Thanks for that input!

I agree that tire pressure plays an important role as well. Riders of "different proportions" need to experiment a little with that.

[robmorg]

Just wanted to jump back into this thread and say "THANK YOU" to all who posted useful posts here explaining the advantages of BajaRon's beefed up sway bar - especially MagDave and PK. My Spyder has been in the shop for various items this past week, and today I picked it up with a brand new sway bar, and billet aluminum Heim joint links from BahaRon, and a laser alignment to boot.

These improvements have made a significant difference in handling. I'm both taller and larger than the "average rider", and after reading this thread earlier in the month I figured I would indeed benefit from the beefier sway bar. I did. I can now take the curves much faster and the Spyder now does not feel like it even wants to lift that inside tire. All this, and I don't have to lean as much as I did before - actually hardly at all except on the tightest turns (as Dave said).

Thanks again, guys.

While in the shop I also resolved most of the problem with heat coming up around the seat, but that's a story for another thread.

[Magdave]

Just wanted to jump back into this thread and say "THANK YOU" to all who posted useful posts here explaining the advantages of BajaRon's beefed up sway bar - especially MagDave and PK. My Spyder has been in the shop for various items this past week, and today I picked it up with a brand new sway bar, and billet aluminum Heim joint links from BahaRon, and a laser alignment to boot.

These improvements have made a significant difference in handling. I'm both taller and larger than the "average rider", and after reading this thread earlier in the month I figured I would indeed benefit from the beefier sway bar. I did. I can now take the curves much faster and the Spyder now does not feel like it even wants to lift that inside tire. All this, and I don't have to lean as much as I did before - actually hardly at all except on the tightest turns (as Dave said).

Thanks again, guys.

While in the shop I also resolved most of the problem with heat coming up around the seat, but that's a story for another thread.

Glad it worked for you

[Bob Denman]

Stefan,
How's it coming along down there?
Are you developing a "comfort level" with the bike yet?

[Roadster Renovations]

I am a larger rider and usually ride double with the wife and increased my tire pressure the other day and that helped cornering significantly. I have also learned that if you lock your elbow of the arm on the outside of the turn, you will turn much smoother. I have 2300 miles on my '14 RT now and it handles very well, especially with the increase in TP. I am a ASE certified mechanic on autos and I agree with everything everyone has said about the sway bars and plan on replacing mine also. I don't like the idea that the OEM links are plastic and for no other reason plan on replacing them to the better aluminum ones. I am so glad for this forum. Good info!
Here is a picture of those plastic links. Not a very good set-up. I will be getting Rons.
20140727_125446.jpg

[manttila]

I have a 2014 and have put about 700 miles and it definitely feel different with and without a passenger. We are probably considered average weight and size. Have increased the tire pressure and run the rear shock on max stiffness. Is that the best way to minimize sway on the 2014?

My main question is ease of steering? I have wrist problems and would like to make it easier to turn this bike. Tire pressure seemed to help but would a stiffer sway bar be a POSITIVE or NEGATIVE when it comes to TURNING EASE?

Thanks,

[Magdave]

I have a 2014 and have put about 700 miles and it definitely feel different with and without a passenger. We are probably considered average weight and size. Have increased the tire pressure and run the rear shock on max stiffness. Is that the best way to minimize sway on the 2014?

My main question is ease of steering? I have wrist problems and would like to make it easier to turn this bike. Tire pressure seemed to help but would a stiffer sway bar be a POSITIVE or NEGATIVE when it comes to TURNING EASE?

Thanks,

It probably will not make much if any difference in the actual strength needed to turn the handle bars just the tracking and lean of the bike improves.

[Bob Denman]

It would take a major re-working of the "steering bits", to effect a change in the effort required...
Would some sort of brace for your wrist help?

[manttila]

Trust me there are a lot of people with more physical challenges than me but I was just looking for some options. I have had one wrist partially fused years ago and they wanted to do the other one. Glad I did not have it done. Believe it or not the Spyder created less pain after riding pain than the Goldwing I had. I think it is the clutch and brake action of the goldwing.

I do have some wrist braces that I use when there is some heavy wrist work and have tried them on the bike. I could probably get by with it on the left wrist but the right wrist when turning and using throttle make it very difficult. Thanks for the comments and suggestions.

[5-0 spyder]

I've been reading a lot about the Baha Ron sway bar helping substantially while in turns and curves and I'm sure it was mentioned before and I probably have missed it, but how well does the Baha Ron sway bar work on straight aways? I live in Philadelphia (the land of crappy roads) and while I'm riding my 2012 RT-S on the highway it seems like it sways in the lane. Sort of like a wandering in the lane. Would the Baha Ron sway bar also help with this?