Summer is back - yes boiling gas again :(

[Magdave]

You don't have a clue about 2014 Spyder RT's!!! I have been riding in 95-98 deg heat, & engine temp stays at 4 bars!!
NO, you are wrong; there will not be any heating/boiling gas problems on 2014 RT with the dual radiators up front, exhaust pipe under RT!!!!
I bought the 2014 Spyder RT-S SE6 because I wanted the 1330cc in-line triple motor awesome torque, smooth shifting trans.
It is really none of your business if I bought a 2014 RT, I buy what I want to ryde!! ( I have 34,000 miles on 3 Spyder RT's)
I rode all last summer in 112-116 deg Arizona hot weather 2013 RT with no gas boiling/heating problems after my heat reflective mods!!
If you want to sit on your butt, complain, & bad mouth BRP, then you reap what you sow.
This hands on info I share with all the other RT riders that want a solution to RT heat problems so they can enjoy riding all summer.
Jim

I guess you ain't been around here. I did all you did and more. Is it better? A little, but it still does it. Simple fact of the matter is your own referenced temp readings indicate you did not solve the gas boiling problem. Do you know what the boiling point of gas is? Now lets mention there are 2 different types of heat here , comfort and danger. Every motorcycle suffers from some type of comfort heat. Sitting over an engine heat rises etc. You can have 6 radiators but FI engines(or any for that matter) will run at 200+ deg. with a 180deg thermostat. It has to able to fire the Cat up. Nothing can be done to change that. Conventional motorcycles have more or open headroom between the engine and tank. Although sometimes they will have the same issue with the tank sitting over the 200+ deg. engine most of the time the ventilation is adequate to abate the boiling. You are delusional if you think the 2014 engine bay is any cooler than previous years. Only difference is the engine is moved forward from the tank ( for the most part) and exhaust is re routed. Both can help obviously but sitting in traffic the tank WILL heat up just like every other Spyder on the road. The 1330 does not run any cooler than the 990. I am betting by the end of the summer when '14 owners start really checking tank temps we will see they too have gas boil. As much? Probably not. enough to overwhelm the EVAP canister? That is the question.

[sddinnh]

You are delusional if you think the 2014 engine bay is any cooler than previous years. Only difference is the engine is moved forward from the tank ( for the most part) and exhaust is re routed. Both can help obviously but sitting in traffic the tank WILL heat up just like every other Spyder on the road. The 1330 does not run any cooler than the 990. I am betting by the end of the summer when '14 owners start really checking tank temps we will see they too have gas boil. As much? Probably not. enough to overwhelm the EVAP canister? That is the question.

As a 1330 owner, I somewhat agree. I think that like the two cylinder bikes, the record of the 3 cylinder bikes will be spotty as far as gas boiling goes. Some of us that live in rural areas in the cooler parts of the country may have no problems at all, while others in hotter, more congested parts of the country may have more problems. I rarely sit in traffic and it has not been over 70 here so far this year so I expect that I will not see the problem.

As an engineer, I also think that anything you do to these bikes as a fix, short of re-designing them, is going to be spotty as far as results go. If you were just over the edge of the boiling point and you removed the cat, then that might have fixed your boiling problem, where someone in a hotter area of the country needs to do more. And thats what the factory did with the 2014's, they redesigned them to move air better. If this is going to be sufficient or not is yet to be seen.

Just my humble opinion

[Magdave]

As a 1330 owner, I somewhat agree. I think that like the two cylinder bikes, the record of the 3 cylinder bikes will be spotty as far as gas boiling goes. Some of us that live in rural areas in the cooler parts of the country may have no problems at all, while others in hotter, more congested parts of the country may have more problems. I rarely sit in traffic and it has not been over 70 here so far this year so I expect that I will not see the problem.

As an engineer, I also think that anything you do to these bikes as a fix, short of re-designing them, is going to be spotty as far as results go. If you were just over the edge of the boiling point and you removed the cat, then that might have fixed your boiling problem, where someone in a hotter area of the country needs to do more. And thats what the factory did with the 2014's, they redesigned them to move air better. If this is going to be sufficient or not is yet to be seen.

Just my humble opinion

Time will tell but the new air movement has to do with coolant not around the engine bay. There are variables as you mentioned. If you avoid traffic lights and cruise you will (as I do ) have less if any boiling. My boiling occurs in extended stop and go traffic so I try to avoid the circumstances that cause it ( plus it makes for a better ride). I think even the most hard core shade tree mechanics have tried to solve this issue and some say they have done it. Maybe so for a certain set of variables but not for all IMHO.

[spyderyderjim]

Sorry but it is not solved. I have done what you have. wrapped pipes and wrapped cat bypass. Canisterectomy with vent routed to rear, insulated tank, insulated master cylinder and removed air intake resonator. Things are MUCH better. I never have the fumes in my helmet sitting in traffic. But the garage does fill with gas fumes every day when I get home from work. 90+ deg, stop n go traffic still yields major gas fumes. Not to mention the low fuel economy from all this gas vaporizing to the air.

I am pretty much convinced that the engine bay temps will never stay below the boiling point of gas. The only solution would be to reroute the exhaust under the bike or a double wall insualted tank.

http://thermotec.shptron.com/p/pipe-shield-3

This shield over top of exhaust pipes heat wrap lowered exhaust pipe heat enough to stop gas from boiling in tank on my 2013 RT.
This is what Lamont used on his 2013 Spyder ST.
I also put a heat reflecting shield in front of gas tank extended up to reflect heat away from gas tank.
The heat mods I listed solved the gas boiling problem in my 2013 RT last summer.
The exhaust pipe Thermotec heat shield is what finally stopped gas from boiling in the RT tank.
I used a laser temp gun to check gas tank temps, etc after each heat mod.
I did not have gas fume smell in garage after a ride, just a few drips once in awhile.
PMK is right, until gas stops boiling in tanks, you will get fumes out of gas tank vent hose.
Sounds like you did every heat mod.
I am just sharing what heat mods worked for my 2013 RT.
The 2013 RT-S was a blast to ride because the stiffer frame handled corner speed, at twice posted speed!!
My 2014 RT handles corners about 5 mph faster than 2013 RT.
Enjoy your rydes!
Jim

[Y Rider]

I have a 2011 RT Limited and have had the gas smell problem since I first got it. Each time after a long ride I park the Spyder outside for an hour until the bike cools off enough before putting it in the garage. This has become the normal procedure for me and has worked well to keep my garage from being overwhelmed with gas fumes. I even tried the "canisterectomy" with no success. The problem is design. If the gas tank gets too hot and the gas reaches its boiling point the vapors are forced out the vent. Only cure is to keep the gas tank cool. The only possible solution for this problem that I have seen so far is the catalytic converter bypass system Lamont is putting together. I am just waiting to see the results from others before making the purchase. I am hoping his cat bypass will be the fix for the boiling gas and even the hot right foot problems.

[jcthorne]

http://thermotec.shptron.com/p/pipe-shield-3

This shield over top of exhaust pipes heat wrap lowered exhaust pipe heat enough to stop gas from boiling in tank on my 2013 RT.
This is what Lamont used on his 2013 Spyder ST.
I also put a heat reflecting shield in front of gas tank extended up to reflect heat away from gas tank.

Jim

How many and what size of these shields did you add to your exhaust and where did you put them? What heat reflecting shield did you add to your tank? I already have the thermotec reflective adhesive backed insulation applied to the whole tank.

[jcthorne]

I have a 2011 RT Limited and have had the gas smell problem since I first got it. Each time after a long ride I park the Spyder outside for an hour until the bike cools off enough before putting it in the garage. This has become the normal procedure for me and has worked well to keep my garage from being overwhelmed with gas fumes. I even tried the "canisterectomy" with no success. The problem is design. If the gas tank gets too hot and the gas reaches its boiling point the vapors are forced out the vent. Only cure is to keep the gas tank cool. The only possible solution for this problem that I have seen so far is the catalytic converter bypass system Lamont is putting together. I am just waiting to see the results from others before making the purchase. I am hoping his cat bypass will be the fix for the boiling gas and even the hot right foot problems.

Quit waiting. Does not 'solve' the problem. I even heat wrapped the bypass. It does help but its one small part of the solution to get heat out of the bike. It will not change the heat on your foot at all as that is from the radiator.

[finless]

Isn't the exhaust pipe double walled anyway?

Bob

[spyderyderjim]

How many and what size of these shields did you add to your exhaust and where did you put them? What heat reflecting shield did you add to your tank? I already have the thermotec reflective adhesive backed insulation applied to the whole tank.

I used the 6" wide x 3 foot long on #1 exhaust pipe; and same on # 2 exhaust pipe.
I used the thermal stainless steel ties to hold it on over heat wrap pipes.
Did you notice less heat under panels after you removed all the stock air filter & installed the JT type air filter?
I noticed the adjustable side vents helped pull out some motor heat out of top vents when riding.
Jim

[spyderyderjim]

This may sound like a totally stupid idea. The heat reflection products can work, but often will heat soak over time, not all but some.

Never seen the earlier Spyders underside, but could it be viable to secure a simple ceramic tile along the exhaust, giving the air gap between the tank and exhaust system?

The other alternative could be a rolled stainless or titanium heat shield on the exhaust.

The thermotec heat blankets make sense. Keep the heat inside something hot and away from something cool.

To adhere a heat reflective material against a cool item may still allow heat transfer.

PK

You are correct the reflective heat shield will cause a little heat soak.
I am using this Lava heat shield that is not reflective like the aluminum coated; on gas tanks now.

http://paceperformance.com/i-5136838...at-direct.html

I am using a ceramic reflective heat shield armor that withstands 1200 deg heat, so is put directly on exhaust pipes; seems better than pipe wrap.
I posted photos of a 2011 RT; & my 2014 RT ceramic shield under engine area to keep heat off.

http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/au...atshield-armor.

The Thermotec heat blankets have 3/8" stand offs so air flow is under shield also.
Like I mentioned this heat mod is what finally stopped gas boiling in my 2013 RT last summer.
Thanks for your input.
(You just need to get some Elka shocks from Len at Pitbull, so you can rail the corners on your 2014 RT)!!

Jim

[crazyspyder]

GGGRRRR GREAT temps here are up and gas smell ...like a stinky old goat is BACK! and the dealer tech has told me many times , ''it's normal ''. seriously thinking of getting a bottom scum feeding dweller to
get his scumbag expert opinion. I can handle bbq-ing my foot ...but.. roasting my family because my spyder caught fire in my garage is unacceptable!
so frustrated I CAN"T TYPE ANYMORE..
2012 RT Se5

[flaggerphil]

I'm lucky in that I've never had a boiling gas problem or an excessive heat problem with my 2011. Is there heat coming from the engine? Of course, but nothing that uncomfortable and far less than I've had with air cooled Harleys in the past. About the same amount I had with my '07
Yamaha V-Star 1300T and my '08 Suzuki Boulevard M-50 (neither of which I own anymore...though my sister owns the Suzuki now).

I will sometimes have a gas smell when I come back from long, hot rides. I've had the same smell with other motorcycles I've owned over the years. I just leave the garage door open for 15 minutes or so after I get home and the problem is gone.

I'm not saying others don't have problems...I've not had them with my ride.

[spyderyderjim]

[QUOTE=PMK;804179]Jim, any photos to "show" how you accomplished installing these items?


2013 RT #2 exhaust right side Pipe Shield http://thermotec.shptron.com/p/pipe-shield-3
2013 RT sticky wrap in front & underneath brake master cylinder
2013 RT sticky wrap gas tank up to frame blocking heat from #2 cylinder
2013 RT Pipe Shield left side #1 exhaust pipe; this shield over top of wrapped exhaust pipes is what finally stopped gas boiling in tank!!
I now use Lava wrap (instead of sticky shield) because it is not as reflective & has higher heat rating of 1200 deg.
http://paceperformance.com/i-5136838...at-direct.html

The 2011 RT photo of ceramic exhaust pipe heat shield is what I now use instead of pipe wrap, on friends RT's.
http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/au...atshield-armor

Jim



Pic 9 Cool Tec.jpg2013 RT right side heat wrap front & underneath brake master cylinder.jpg2013 RT left side sticky shield gas tank wrap.jpgPic 8.jpg

[MikeinGA]

I have stopped the boiling gas by using exhaust wrap
http://www.motorsports247.com/produc...aust-wrap-2x50

and used heat shield on the gas tank http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The heat shield is non-flammable unlike the foam product that BRP uses that is flammable. I removed the flammable BRP product and used the Thermo-Tec product. That's IMHO.


Mike

[spyderyderjim]

SpyderJim, just to clarify, and correct me if wrong, the sequence of your photos, in in the order of the description in your post.

PK

Yes, left to right with bottom photo of 2011 ceramic heat shield I now use.
The first photo shows the backside of the pipe heat shield that goes over top of exhaust pipe wrap.
Jim

[Jeriatric]

Either all of you have too much time and money on your hands to be adding this, and removing that, or, your just a bunch of saps.

JMO

glad you got that off your chest

[larrymz3]

After reading all of these posts I figured I put in my 2 cents. Have mine in the shop today for the issue. Told them I want all documentation of what is being done to fix. Also in contact with BRP directly. Should it not be fixed I will go back two more times. Still not fixed, I will use the lemon law. I can't believe everyone here will spend 25K+ And still put out more of their hard earned money, and time to TRY and repair something that is apparently unrepairable. I didn't buy this thing as a project to work on, as a bunch are suggesting, I bought it to ride. I own a small company and I bought this in hopes to relieve some stress, but it is adding more. Either all of you have too much time and money on your hands to be adding this, and removing that, or, your just a bunch of saps.

JMO

Good luck with that!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[TuckMiddle]

My 2011 RT-SM5 started having horrible fumes and dripping, not just drops, about March, 2012. Never knowingly overfilled it, as it takes too long to get it above about 5.2 or so. Anyway, changed canister, filter, wrap everything, sheets of heat stuff on tank, etc, and ran the tube to the rear to get the gas away from the pipes and CAT. Still dripped, smelled and had to leave it out sometimes. Second canister and more things covered with heat sheets and BRP said "too bad, because we don't have a problem, you do." Did the canisterectomy and it all stopped.
Please don't ask me why, I don't know except that it worked and continues to work 2 years later with 45,000 miles on it. Did the CAT also to reduce heat about a year ago and it helped a little, but my thighs were red as a lobster on Monday with OAT of mid 80s and also on Tues - did 260 miles or more each day in the north GA hills/mini mountains. I'm really happy with the elimination of fumes, smell and dripping and being able to use the garage doors again to keep the critters and birds out. My tom cat took care of critters most of the time. Heat is sometimes a problem, not always , that continues to confuse me. I put the adjustable vents on, heat shield on lower right and have the adjustable windshield also, etc. BRP really needs to wake up and put a fan under the cowl or some such simple solution. The old CB 750 Hondas were hot, but nothin like the Spyder on occasion, my legs were like crab legs this week and it was barely hot out.
This is the only lingering problem the Spyder has had. Couple weeks of check eng light lately, tech nailed it yesterday and found a corroded connector to the fuel pump regulator, which shut off the fuel pump for a micro second, fluctuated the voltage for another micro second, which shut off the steering motor for several minutes at a time, but no light. Everything suggested voltage reg or magneto problem, but he noticed a past reference to PO174 on BUDS and followed that to the regulator. Bike ran like a charm the whole time. Sounds crazy, but all is well as far as I can tell, which of course, proves nothing. Time will tell.
Tuck

[2ndChildhood]

I have a 2012 RTL and had the gas smell problem from day one. A friend has a 2012 RTS and never had the gas problem. The only different that we do is I always run premium gas and he always using regular gas. Also he always tops off the tank (fills the tank to the very top). My question is does premium gas burn hotter than regular gas?


ToM

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[finless]

I have a 2012 RTL and had the gas smell problem from day one. A friend has a 2012 RTS and never had the gas problem. The only different that we do is I always run premium gas and he always using regular gas. Also he always tops off the tank (fills the tank to the very top). My question is does premium gas burn hotter than regular gas?


ToM

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I can't say for sure but have read many posts here arguing this point to the N'th level. I have tried all 3 octanes my state has. As I recall it's 87, 89, and 91. No difference that I could see in temps and I tried it for several tanks at a time. I commute to work and have the ability to try things like that over a short period of time. I have to fill up 3 times a week. Only difference I noticed between the octanes was the difference in exhaust smell when sitting at a light and the wind puts it up my nose. I prefer 91 for that issue which is not a design issue more a preference.

Bob

[Magdave]

I have a 2012 RTL and had the gas smell problem from day one. A friend has a 2012 RTS and never had the gas problem. The only different that we do is I always run premium gas and he always using regular gas. Also he always tops off the tank (fills the tank to the very top). My question is does premium gas burn hotter than regular gas?


ToM

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

The higher the octane the lower the boiling point is the only difference. Higher octane does not ignite as easily which is what causes knock...pre ignition.

[3 Wheel Addict]

The higher the octane the lower the boiling point is the only difference. Higher octane does not ignite as easily which is what causes knock...pre ignition.

prevents knock... not causes it. I think you know this but your wording reads wrong.

[flamingobabe]

well I'll jump in as a 2013 ST owner.....we have been dealing with melted parts before BRP found a fix and had the recall.....Mark fabricated a heat shield that is 3 times larger than the BRP shield...he has wrapped the exhaust, ceramic coated heat shield the tank, found wheel bearings that would not turn...gas fumes....park spyder outside for 2 hours before putting in shop....have had gas boiling and cap 176 degrees...I can go on and on.......but with the flash on the ECM gas cap was on the hot side of warm and new air flow 2014 panels the gas cap is cool to the touch....riding 400 miles in 85 to 90 degrees...we are cautiously optimistic.....hoping for the best.. .but we are entering 90++ degrees from now till October....we will see what happens....bottom line...is I try to work with BRP to get things fixed and some things are successful and others...there is no fix.....I do not accept it's normal to have all these problems...but we have learned that Mark finds solutions to more defects than BRP has....plus I had an O2 sensor blow.....and they would not replace the pipe...only the sensor....we feel that is a Band-Aid.....but clattering and shaking still happens....have used all 3 levels of gas...no difference except $$$$

[Magdave]

prevents knock... not causes it. I think you know this but your wording reads wrong.

As I wrote Pre ignition causes knock/ping and that is caused by low octane in a high compression cylinder.