Hesitation on hard right turns

[PMK]

Just to Play "Devil's Advocate" for a moment...
There's an awful lot of good information being found and spread around...
Has anybody thought to ask if it's really a good idea?

PLEASE:
Tread carefully!
If you kill-off Nanny's ability to save your butt when you might need it the most... it could come back to haunt you...
...Just sayin'...

Well...one of the good things is, a calibrator CAN be set to keep safety there if desired. I do not advocated dialing out anything except for some extreme turning angles.

Oddly, modern cars provide a system override. Maybe the Spyder needs more brains, that also takes in vehicle speed. Misfires from a dead stop is not good either.

Consider the movie American Graffiti...there was scene where the girl wanted the brainy guy to Peel Out. If we survived that and no seat belts, a small bit of fine tuning should not hurt...it's all in the wrist, and if you are gonna be stupid, you better be tough.

FWIW, our personal 14 RTs is fine for girl on the back. If I start spinning tires and fish tailing it will be bad, REALLY BAD.

PK

[NetJunkie]

Just to Play "Devil's Advocate" for a moment...
There's an awful lot of good information being found and spread around...
Has anybody thought to ask if it's really a good idea?

PLEASE:
Tread carefully!
If you kill-off Nanny's ability to save your butt when you might need it the most... it could come back to haunt you...
...Just sayin'...

We get it. We do. But these Spyders belong to us and we understand the risks. I'll be honest. I'm amazed at the lack of performance mods and information out there on Spyders. I expected to find a lot more... 500 ways to bolt more chrome on these things...but very little in the performance department.

We need to change that.

[DrewNJ]

Just to Play "Devil's Advocate" for a moment...
There's an awful lot of good information being found and spread around...
Has anybody thought to ask if it's really a good idea?

PLEASE:
Tread carefully!
If you kill-off Nanny's ability to save your butt when you might need it the most... it could come back to haunt you...
...Just sayin'...

Thanks dad....we will be careful...

Sent from my Venue 8 3830 using Tapatalk

[NancysToy]

We get it. We do. But these Spyders belong to us and we understand the risks. I'll be honest. I'm amazed at the lack of performance mods and information out there on Spyders. I expected to find a lot more... 500 ways to bolt more chrome on these things...but very little in the performance department.

We need to change that.

Without much ability to do any tuning or change a chip, and with the fuss Nanny makes on a dyno, there hasn't been much push for performance mods. There is no racing venue for these, and the ability to make mods is pretty limited. As was said, gutting the electronics and replacing the motor with the Aprilia unit makes as much sense as anything.

[SNOOPY]

We get it. We do. But these Spyders belong to us and we understand the risks. I'll be honest. I'm amazed at the lack of performance mods and information out there on Spyders. I expected to find a lot more... 500 ways to bolt more chrome on these things...but very little in the performance department.

We need to change that.

Thats because 85% of owners are older people.

[hchays]

Please keep us "in the loop"!

I'm confused!!! First you want "us" to keep you in the loop. Now you want "us" to think about if it is the right thing to do...
I don't want to sound rude, but I bought an RS because I did not want a Goldwing (AKA Spyder RT). I wanted performance and at the same time a more safe way to ride. The 3 wheels (especially with 2 in the front) make these pretty darn safe. I have ridden on he street for 20+ years and can handle a little performance too. We are not looking to make our Spyders 500H.P. (Although that would be cool). We are simply trying to find a way to enjoy what we chose to spent a small fortune on to ride. I personally think it is very dangerous when I pull out of the end of my street to get in traffic and the nanny kicks in and I lose all control of forward movement. Just my 2 cents...

[DrewNJ]

Ive been trying to do some homework on the can language and Looking at the schematics for the Spyder it looks like pretty common 4-5 wire systems. Yaw has Ground, reference, 12v, canhi, canlow.
I've got a message in with split second. We need to confirm that the signal modifier plays nice with modifying CAN signals on the buss. Then we will know if the signal modifier will work.

Then we just have to figure out if the steering angle sensor is 5v or 12v since its only 4 wire. This will determine if control will go through the modifier or a clamp.

It would be nice to control both with one box! We will see....


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[SNOOPY]

I'm confused!!! First you want "us" to keep you in the loop. Now you want "us" to think about if it is the right thing to do...
I don't want to sound rude, but I bought an RS because I did not want a Goldwing (AKA Spyder RT). I wanted performance and at the same time a more safe way to ride. The 3 wheels (especially with 2 in the front) make these pretty darn safe. I have ridden on he street for 20+ years and can handle a little performance too. We are not looking to make our Spyders 500H.P. (Although that would be cool). We are simply trying to find a way to enjoy what we chose to spent a small fortune on to ride. I personally think it is very dangerous when I pull out of the end of my street to get in traffic and the nanny kicks in and I lose all control of forward movement. Just my 2 cents...

200 HP would be nice too.



...or 250

[PMK]

Ive been trying to do some homework on the can language and Looking at the schematics for the Spyder it looks like pretty common 4-5 wire systems. Yaw has Ground, reference, 12v, canhi, canlow.
I've got a message in with split second. We need to confirm that the signal modifier plays nice with modifying CAN signals on the buss. Then we will know if the signal modifier will work.

Then we just have to figure out if the steering angle sensor is 5v or 12v since its only 4 wire. This will determine if control will go through the modifier or a clamp.

It would be nice to control both with one box! We will see....


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I'm probably wrong, but suspect the steering sensor is 5v also with similar hi lo as the stability sensor. A calibrator would provide sweep over time, vs a single cutoff and hold. This makes sense for the steering and even chassis sensor. You set the endpoints, and then how the end ramp profiles. This lets you maintain oem performance through a given range, maybe high speed handling and throttle, but lets large steering angle or hard acceleration be tuned down from oem.

The third, but does not seemed coupled in system would be vehicle speed. Since it sputters at 0 mph, it seems BRP may not have coupled MPH with all this, but from stories may have coupled wheelspin as compared fwd wheels to rear wheels.

I am curious if Split Second even approaches this, since they deal more with engine parameters than chassis parameters.

Time will tell.

Has anyone ever talked with the MUZZY guys about this, or one of the other high performance sport bike modifiers. They should be dealing with speed limiters and other stuff constantly to make bike run on track days.

On the flip side, let's try and keep it all nice between everyone. No need to segregate riders or models. Consider that many experienced riders have forgetten more than some younger riders will ever learn. FWIW, this house rides a 14 RTs, and there is no way the wife has any interest in more than what it does. If it were my own, and a v twin, I would be reading Aprillia manuals.

PK

[PMK]

200 HP would be nice too.



...or 250

Spray it!

[SNOOPY]

I've seen Nitrous destroy many a car motor, no thanks

.

[PMK]

I've seen Nitrous destroy many a car motor, no thanks

.

And you think the Aprillia engine is good for over 200...If yo dial in the spray, the mixtures and so forth. you will make power, just need to be light on the thumb for better longevity. You asked for more, now you don't want it? Time to trade in for the RT?

PK

[DrewNJ]

And you think the Aprillia engine is good for over 200...If yo dial in the spray, the mixtures and so forth. you will make power, just need to be light on the thumb for better longevity. You asked for more, now you don't want it? Time to trade in for the RT?

PK

You all need to get working on some forced induction for the triple!

The vtwin isn't really all that great of a boost motor. Some have done it with OK results but its all low psi stuff. Its good for 150hp NA but after that it needs more. Maybe the Aprilia V4 motor?

Need one of you RT guys to work up 2 bar boost on that triple. See what it can really do!

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[SNOOPY]

And you think the Aprillia engine is good for over 200...If yo dial in the spray, the mixtures and so forth. you will make power, just need to be light on the thumb for better longevity. You asked for more, now you don't want it? Time to trade in for the RT?

PK

[spyryder]

Here's an old thread might give you guys a few ideas. :

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...+wheel+sensors

[DrewNJ]

Here's an old thread might give you guys a few ideas. :

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...+wheel+sensors

Yes, I saw that before, but I don't see how piggybacking the ABS sensors would prevent ignition cut on those hard accelerations when turned. Good food for thought though.....

[DrewNJ]

The system is still going to see a lot of throttle/acceleration with sharp steering angle??

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[PMK]

You all need to get working on some forced induction for the triple!

The vtwin isn't really all that great of a boost motor. Some have done it with OK results but its all low psi stuff. Its good for 150hp NA but after that it needs more. Maybe the Aprilia V4 motor?

Need one of you RT guys to work up 2 bar boost on that triple. See what it can really do!

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I'll help you guys as best I can.

The RTs triple is fine as is for this house.

I had been considering removing the cat and Lamonsters pipe makes it easy, just not sure I want that method yet. Good converters are not known to be restrictive, but make excellent mufflers. Usually, uncorking any vehicle by reducing back pressure moves the power up a bit and kills bottom end some. Just not sure how I want to take this yet. He did add length which is typically good for power down low. Just waiting to hear a good sound clip.

As for forced induction, it would have to be a turbo or a very creative drive for the blower. With no external outputs except the drive pulley, things get tough. A turbo could work, as it seems the airbox is pretty well built and sealed (except the airfilter cover). But then yes you add boost, then need bigger fuel injectors and all the electronics to manage it.

I would say that it would be less fuss to build a carbon fibre body panel set, an aluminum or chromoly frame and swingarm with chromoly front suspension arms adding of course castor and camber, plus redoing the fuel cell in aluminum. Sometimes it is easier to change power to weight ratios by dieting rather than working the engine. More HP will eat clutches, gears, belts and so on. Plus I don't believe the chassis weight bias is optimum to load the rear tire for stunning launch. Almost as if the rear tire needs to go forward, to get more weight on it.

1330cc, fine for us at this time.

PK

[NancysToy]

The system is still going to see a lot of throttle/acceleration with sharp steering angle??

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And keep in mind that some of the cutout under these conditions is caused by loss of rear tire traction. Granted, the system seems to be more sensitive with the bars cranked over, but addressing the lighter weight on the rear and the physics of the turn, as well as the rear tire coefficient of traction would be necessary to completely eliminate any system intervention...unless the system was disabled altogether.

[Bob Denman]

As for forced induction, it would have to be a turbo or a very creative drive for the blower. With no external outputs except the drive pulley, things get tough. A turbo could work, as it seems the airbox is pretty well built and sealed (except the airfilter cover). But then yes you add boost, then need bigger fuel injectors and all the electronics to manage it.

has anybody looked to see if Aerocharger is working on anything?


Yes; I enjoy the "Quest For Knowledge"...
I just preach some caution; that's all.

[billrob71]

has anybody looked to see if Aerocharger is working on anything?


Yes; I enjoy the "Quest For Knowledge"...
I just preach some caution; that's all.

I called led and talked to them, they have no correction for the VSS system but then again they don't have anything available for a bike newer then 2012

[billrob71]

Spray it!

Spray is to short and those little bottles don't last very long.

[NetJunkie]

And keep in mind that some of the cutout under these conditions is caused by loss of rear tire traction. Granted, the system seems to be more sensitive with the bars cranked over, but addressing the lighter weight on the rear and the physics of the turn, as well as the rear tire coefficient of traction would be necessary to completely eliminate any system intervention...unless the system was disabled altogether.

The VSS is obviously set to over compensate on hard right turns like this. The other day I kicked the backend out on a right hand turn wasn't 90 degrees and VSS didn't do anything. I do a 90 degree turn much slower and it kicks in and there is no way the back tire is losing traction at that time. Be curious to know how a new 2014 RS-S does on this.

[billrob71]

Be curious to know how a new 2014 RS-S does on this.

I'm curious as well, BRP states they relaxed the VSS system. I still don't understand why they can't wright a program for the older models ?? When I called they said most of the components are different for 2014 but when it comes to the next model year part numbers usually change anyway.

This has been my really sole complaint about the bike

[NetJunkie]

I'm curious as well, BRP states they relaxed the VSS system. I still don't understand why they can't wright a program for the older models ?? When I called they said most of the components are different for 2014 but when it comes to the next model year part numbers usually change anyway.

This has been my really sole complaint about the bike

I could see them doing this with sensors that had higher sample rates... I also think the "relaxed" VSS is something they built for the next generation RS-S and it either got moved up or the RS-S updates got moved back. Guess we'll see later this year.