2010 RT-S shock upgrade

[TroyboyRn]

Hello

I am looking into upgrading my 2010 RT-S shocks. I have read that switching to the 2011 or 2012 stock shocks were a improvement. I really dont have the money to goto Elkas right now. My question is is it worth it to do this upgrade or wait a year and save up for the Elkas. I do not do much 2 up riding so its mainly for me just cruising around and commuting 20+ miles to and from work daily. Also are RT and RT-S shocks interchangeable. when i am shopping for shocks what years and models are comparable with a 2010 RT-S. One last question I am also considering upgrading to the BajaRon sway bar. I am 6'4 225 lbs and was wondering if since I'm mainly ride as a single is it still worth it to upgrade all things considered..

Thanks for any input.

[TuckMiddle]

Hello

I am looking into upgrading my 2010 RT-S shocks. I have read that switching to the 2011 or 2012 stock shocks were a improvement. I really dont have the money to goto Elkas right now. My question is is it worth it to do this upgrade or wait a year and save up for the Elkas. I do not do much 2 up riding so its mainly for me just cruising around and commuting 20+ miles to and from work daily. Also are RT and RT-S shocks interchangeable. when i am shopping for shocks what years and models are comparable with a 2010 RT-S. One last question I am also considering upgrading to the BajaRon sway bar. I am 6'4 225 lbs and was wondering if since I'm mainly ride as a single is it still worth it to upgrade all things considered..

Thanks for any input.

I'd do the Sway bar from Ron first. No bar when I got my 2011, so got Elkas and they were great. Sway bar made it wonderful. Laser is the last and therefore the best by feel, but it's probably second, per my amateur imterpretation. I might even do the laser trick first - do something - they all will improve what you have.

Tuck

[Benggolf]

I have a 2011 RT Limited. Suggest you do the BajaRon sway bar and front shock absorbers upgrade first.
After doing all the suspension mods, then do the laser alignment.

If you prefer Elkas and need time to save up; then do the laser alignment after installing the BajaRon sway bar. These changes alone will made a big difference in the ride and stability department.

[spyderyderjim]

TroyboyRn

You can buy a like new set of stock shocks from 2012 Spyder RT or RT-S or limited that are stiffer with firmer dampening, than your 2010 RT shocks.
Buy a shock relocator kit for front shocks from Len at Pitbull Powersport Springfield, Mo 417-863-1418.
Len probably has a good set of 2012 RT shocks and the shock relocator kit for front shocks available.
The shock relocator angles the top shock mount 1 3/4" more straight up, giving you a stiffer ride setting up front.
Best bang for your buck, I think.
I suggest doing this before buying a BajaRon swaybar.
Next best option is a set of stage 1+ Elkas from Len; he really knows how to set them up spot on for you.
I had 22,000 miles on 2011 RT; but I bought Elka shocks; that work excellent.
Jim

[NancysToy]

In my opinion the 2011 or 2012 shocks are worth the time, effort and money. So is BajaRon's swaybar. It would be hard for me to make a cal as which to do first...both are about equal. Both offer vast improvement. Either would be good, both would be better. JMHO

[spacetiger]

The 2010 front spring part number is: 706000676
The 2012 front spring part number is: 706000676

They are the same spring, so don't replace your 2010 shocks with 2012 shocks because all you will do is buy the same spring you have now. I weigh 208 and found I can bottom out the front, so you will need to do something to set up your front suspension correctly.

You have 3 options:
Buy aftermarket shocks: $$$$
Buy the shock relocator: $$$
Modify your current shocks by adding [0.8") preload spacers: $

It is not difficult to add PVC preload spacers, here is a thread on the subject based on what I did:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ont-Suspension

I second the recommendation on swapping the sway bar and the alignment (after setting up your suspension).

The only add would be to correct the rear spring too. It is way too weak. Swap the spring out for a 2013 spring and add a PVC preload spacer too. Here is the thread on that change that I made.
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...on-%28shock%29

I have been riding on these changes and have not bottomed out on the front. I have bottomed out the rear when riding 2 up (but not all the time). I will increase the length of rear preload spacer once it gets a little warmer.

It doesn't take a lot of $ to set your suspension correctly. Don't forget to post back what you do. Good luck.

Jerry

[MidLifeCrisis]

TroyboyRn

You can buy a like new set of stock shocks from 2012 Spyder RT or RT-S or limited that are stiffer with firmer dampening, than your 2010 RT shocks.
Buy a shock relocator kit for front shocks from Len at Pitbull Powersport Springfield, Mo 417-863-1418.
Len probably has a good set of 2012 RT shocks and the shock relocator kit for front shocks available.
The shock relocator angles the top shock mount 1 3/4" more straight up, giving you a stiffer ride setting up front.
Best bang for your buck, I think.
I suggest doing this before buying a BajaRon swaybar.
Next best option is a set of stage 1+ Elkas from Len; he really knows how to set them up spot on for you.
I had 22,000 miles on 2011 RT; but I bought Elka shocks; that work excellent.
Jim

In my opinion the 2011 or 2012 shocks are worth the time, effort and money. So is BajaRon's swaybar. It would be hard for me to make a cal as which to do first...both are about equal. Both offer vast improvement. Either would be good, both would be better. JMHO

^^^^ what they said. You can skip the Elkas with that combo.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[SpyFun1]

Don't know for sure if they will fit but we put Elkas on our 2011 RT (all 3) and have the slightly used 2011 stock shocks for sale - if interested - let us know.

Lee

[spacetiger]

It is not the spring that is different. It is the damping unit. It was much improved for 2011/2012. The die-cast spring adjusters that were prone to breakage were also improved. You can buy the shocks (damping units) adjusting rings, and ring protectors from BRP and use your old springs if you wish. You can get a better deal by buying a set of take-off 2011/2012 shock assemblies form a dealer like Pitbull that installs Elkas, or an owner that has done the same. Look at the adjusters to make sure you are getting 2011/2012 take-off shocks. They have the steel adjusting rings. Also be sure you are not getting a set of RS shocks.

Scotty,

Some valid points, but I would offer the following thoughts.

- Shocks have 2 functions; support the weight of the bike through the springs well enough to not bottom out in your riding envelope and to dampen out the shock movements.
- If you Google any web site dealing with properly setting up the front motorcycle suspension, you will find they tell you to address the springs first because you have to have the bike set up so it doesn't bottom out. After that is done, you can address the damping. You really can't properly address the damping if the springs are wrong as the shock will be in a perpetual state of compression to the point the piston will not be traveling through the oil very much to dampen things out.

So:
- If you buy the 2011/2012 shock and adjuster ring (does not include spring; $90.99 + 13.99 each mail ordered) you are ~$ 225 into addressing the problem. But, since you have not addressed the weak springs, you still have to spend a few more $'s to fix the problem. I only used $'s because I'm guessing you would add some additional preload spacers to address the weak springs. If you do not add preload spacers, then I'd have to question the value of spending ~$225 but be left with a suspension that bottoms out all the time. You could add the upper shock relocater to get a little more stiffness from the springs (springs are a little more vertical) but that will cost you another ~$150+. That would be somewhere between $375 to $400 to address just the front suspension.
- However, if you add the preload spacers first (less than $15 to do both front shocks), you will have the front suspension properly set as far as the springs are concerned. Then, you can ride the bike to see if you find the damping acceptable. I think most RT riders will not be too concerned with high and low speed damping characteristics because we don't ride the bike in a manner that that is a critical aspect of the ride. I do think the RT rider doesn't want to bottom out as that is a harsh ride and will be noticeable. So, if you can live with the stock 2010 shock, you will have only spent $15. If you replace the shock first, you will have spent $225 then another $15 (PVC spacers) or $150 (for upper shock relocators). It seems to me, you would take the cheaper route because it might potentially save you a lot. If you bought a pair of used shocks for $50; I'd still maintain you would be $50 ahead if you go for the preload spacers first.

A few second thoughts:
- People have commented on the front shock adjuster ring (cracking) and the rear shock bottom bolt (bending) as weak components in the suspension. I believe these are failures in the suspension because the bike is bottoming out. When the suspension bottoms out, all forces work themselves through the system finding the next weak point(s) in the design. I have setup my front suspension so it is currently using a ~ 0.78" additional preload spacer and using the 3rd indent on the adjuster ring. Riding 2 up, I find I am almost bottoming out. I could dial in the last 2 indents - or add a slightly longer spacer (0.8") and be in good shape. I think if you go with a longer spacer you might not have to rotate the adjuster ring which should help the cast adjuster ring hold up better - this is the size preload spacer I would recommend to the 224 lb OP.
- For this reason, before I spent any money on a used pair of front shocks, I'd mail order a new 2013 rear spring for $59.99 (plus shipping) and set up the rear from bottoming out. I would guess you could easily properly set up the front and rear suspension for less than $100.

So my order of to do's
1. Set up suspension front and rear as identified above: ~$100
2. Laser alignment: ~$130
3. New sway bar: ~$250 (depending on how aggressive you ride, you might find you do not need this once you complete step 1 above. I have a new sway bar and would recommend it)

But, everyone is different so the OP is free to try something or do nothing. It is my hope he will post what he decides to do and tell us how it worked out - that would help the next person.

Jerry

[spacetiger]

Scotty,

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just want to make sure we're putting out good info to the new riders or ones that want to make changes. Your comment:

The 2010 shocks had horribly weak damping, however, which resulted in excessive body roll.

These are 2 different things. I can believe the 2010 shocks didn't have good damping - but that would have nothing to do with excessive body roll. Excessive body roll would come from too weak of springs and/or to weak of a sway bar.

I can understand why riders switch to a slightly thicker sway bar as it helps control body roll. That said, the sway bar does nothing to help the suspension hold the bike up properly. For that, you need better [stiffer] springs. The 2010-2012 front springs can be made to be serviceable if you can increase the preload enough. Dialing in full (#5) preload setting is not enough based on my empirical testing for a 208 lb rider. If you weigh more than me and are running stock shocks, just go out and feel under your nose of your bike. It will be scratched up (more so if you have a skid plate).

I had 2012 shocks set on 5th indent and the new sway bar - and scratched the nose of the bike a little bit - so I know this combination will not address all of your suspension needs. You have to do something about the weak springs. I understand not everyone can install extra preload spacers, so I would think the next best option would be:
1. Install upper shock mounts: ~$150, see if this addresses the riders needs (I'll do a little math to quantify how much more this helps)
2. Install better sway bar: ~$250, if the rider doesn't like how much the bike leans in turns
3. Install 2012 shocks: ~$50 (used) to ~225 (new) if you want better damping

But, I still would advise my list of options because of cost and it addresses the shortcomings of the rear suspension:
1. Set up suspension front and rear as identified above: ~$100
2. Laser alignment: ~$130
3. New sway bar: ~$250 (depending on how aggressive you ride, you might find you do not need this once you complete step 1 above. I have a new sway bar and would recommend it)

Jerry

[bikeguy]

My 2010 RT had much more body roll than I was happy with but I didn't have the money readily available to go to Elka or Works Performance shocks. When the 2011's came out with better performing shocks and particularly after Scotty reported that his 2011 handled much better than his 2010, I decided that I could afford a couple hundred bucks for 2011 shocks. I changed to the 2011's using the original 2010 springs, was rewarded with improved body roll, and was able to reduce the preload from position 5 to position 4. I was satisfied that the change was worth the money but, I would still love to have a pair of Elkas or Works to be able to play with compression and rebound damping. Incidentally, I'm 145 pounds so a heavier rider might want stiffer springs or more pre-load. But I usually ride 2-up with my wife and stock 2010 springs still seem fine.

When BajaRon came out with his swaybar, I bought one immediately. In my opinion, this swaybar is the best thing you can do to improve the handling of early RT's. Having changed both the shocks and the swaybar, I can say without doubt that BajaRon's swaybar is, by far, the better improvement. As I told Ron, "This swaybar makes my RT handle the way I wanted it to handle from the factory. So, TroyboyRn, if I had it to do over I would buy Ron's swaybar first, then I'd save my money and try to afford a pair of Elkas, Works, or Race Techs. The 2011 shocks will help, but not nearly to the degree that the swaybar does.

Cotton

[spacetiger]

I'm not trying to be argumentative either, just filling in some historical information. In this case, the inadequate front shock damping does contribute to and apparently induce excessive body roll. The 2011 springs were the same rate as the 2010s, as was the swayba, but improving the damping did markedly reduce the body roll. My theory is that the poor compression damping allowed the roll to begin more easily, at which point physics took over and the rest of the suspension was overwhelmed, due to its weaknesses. I fought this fight when the new damping was announced as the sole improvement, yet in real life I found the 2011 to be vastly improved for someone with my weight and riding habits, and other riders noticed the same. It defies logic, but it is a fact. There is no other explanation as no other components were changed to achieve the improvement.

Scotty.

I will not disagree with what changes they made. It is your statements that are off the mark; "...the inadequate front shock damping does contribute to and apparently induce excessive body roll..." This is not correct. Your statement suggests you believe increased shock [compression] damping is a solution to control body roll. The correct solution is to increase spring rate and/or increase sway bar thickness. The spring and sway bar are the mechanical components that are supposed to control body roll. The damping functions (compression and rebound) are there to dampen out the motions so you don't pogo back and forth. If you try to increase compression damping to control body roll (and stay with weak springs/sway bar) you can end up with a stiff jarring kind of ride. I do not doubt Can Am increasing the compression stiffness and that it probably made some riders feel better about the [initial] body roll, but Can Am never addressed the suspension problems correctly with their changes from 2010 to 2012.

I believe the Can Am Spyder will behave like every other motorcycle with a properly set up suspension; get the springs right (and sway bar 2nd for us) then go with softer compression rebounding and increased rebounding performance from the shocks. This lets the spyder's wheels better absorb impacts followed up with strong rebounding damping to dissipate the impact energy; this will give you a smooth ride. If you asked me, I'd guess they only increased the viscosity in the shock oil or they might have changed the valving some (smaller oil passages) in the front shocks. Cheap changes to try and fix a problem vs. new stiffer springs and or sway bar.

BTW, where is the original poster?... We have given you some things to think about, do you know what you are going to try/do?

Jerry

[NancysToy]

This pissing contest is over. I stand by my original post, which is backed by my own experience and that of many others. I have deleted all other posts. Say "Goodbye!"

[spydajohn]

Hi guys I own a 2010 RT and because I live in Australia the roads are sometimes bad and the RTs have a problem breaking centre windscreen mounts from the vibrations .to try and solve this problem I did put a new set of elkas all 3 and a sway bar made over here .it did improve my ride a lot but my biggest problem for me was tyre roll in the corners ,and yes I guess I'm an aggressive rider .i did find that by fixing these issues maid the problems with the tyres worse.but all in all the elkas and sway bar did it for us comfort plus on a big ride ,we also tow a 622 trailer.

[TroyboyRn]

Just wanted to say thanks to all that gave me some advice. I am new to cycling and have 1 summer under my belt and about 4000 miles. I am a critical care (ICU) RN and consider myself fairly intelligent but i am having a hard time getting my head around suspension physics. Is there a u tube video out there ( i learn best from seeing things done) that i can watch. I've watched a lot of the do it yourself videos on the site and have learned a ton. I really want to learn so i can dive in and be able to work on my bike with confidence.

I have ordered the Bajaron sway bar to start since it was in my budget and everyone said it was an improvement. I need to learn more about the shocks and suspension but knowing me ill get the Elka's
one thing i must pass on is that i purchased a Ultimate Tall boy seat and driver back rest and Rivco floor boards this winter and it already feels like I'm on a new machine. Im 6'4 225 and didn't realize how unnatural the riding position was with the stock seat and pegs. I'm excisted to upgrade the suspension.

Thanks again to everyone who replied. I've only been a member for a month or so and everyone has been really helpful. So eager to learn. Knowledge is power. THANKS

Troy

[retired1]

After installing new take off shocks from a 2011 RTS, I noticed a big improvement in thr handling of my 2010 RTS. A dealer may still have a set of new take off shocks laying around. I feel that the $100 they cost me, they were well worth it.
JMO

[Trooper]

Nancy`s Toy is correct. Insufficient compression and rebound damping can certainly have an influence with body roll. This biggest problem (besides inadequate spring rates) with the stock Spyder shocks is insufficient rebound dampening.

The role of rebound dampening is to slow down the effect of the springs memory to return to its normal state once it has been compressed. As you come into a corner with your Spyder ( the problem is more obvious with the RT than with the RS), the weight transfer on the outside suspension will cause the shock to almost completely compress. The springs memory will re-extend the suspension to quick simply because there is not enough rebound damping in the shock to slow down the springs memory. What you feel is that wallowing sensation of the shocks going through the cycle of compression and rebound as it is bouncing on the spring. If the rebound and compression damping were better, you would not experience as much sway on corners.....or even on straight roads with a slight cross wind.

Yes, the springs are a factor in preventing the sway that you feel, but the lack of damping in the stock shocks are just as much to blame as the weak spring rates. A stronger swaybar may help stabilize the front end, but the stock suspension will still not allow the wheels to stick to the pavement over harsh bumps because of the lack of both compression and rebound damping.