BUDS

[ponyexp]

How expensive is a buds system less computer??

[Maxson]

Newbie question: What is BUDS?

[Marker]

Newbie question: What is BUDS?

I found this site that explains what and how BUDS works . This site sells them but buyer beware as BRP Buds is only meant for BRP dealers.

http://www.brpdiagnostics.com/buds-how-it-works/

[finless]

From what I have been told BRP wont sell you BUDs unless you are a dealer. I believe that is illegal and against fair trade / competition laws in the US but that has been argued before.

Bob

[ARtraveler]

From what I understand--BUDS is for dealers only. There are some available out there, but they may not contain the latest and greatest from BRP. I am guessing that current updates will be the problem unless you are a dealer.

[Lamonster]

This is what was sent to me regarding BUDS from BRP.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/images/buds.pdf

[DrewNJ]

Brpdiagnostics is legit. The only downside I have heard from a few that have it is that they don't get the updates quite as quickly as the dealer.

[finless]

This is what was sent to me regarding BUDS from BRP.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/images/buds.pdf

I still contend that is a illegal policy here in the US. It does not allow 3rd parties to have a business and service the Spyder. This is called unfair competition.

I work for a major company that was class action sued for the same thing. That is, not giving 3rd party service companies the diagnostic software to allow them to service my companies products thus giving the company I work for a monopoly on service. My company lost that class action in 1992 and we had to allow anyone to be able to purchase the diagnostic software to service the products.

So if someone was to fight BRP on this policy I am sure BRP would loose. But who is going to do that? In my companies case it was a 500 million a year revenue stream that was locked out to any competition. Obviously enough to incent a company and lawyers to go after.

Bob

[Cruzr Joe]

I still contend that is a illegal policy here in the US. It does not allow 3rd parties to have a business and service the Spyder. This is called unfair competition.

I work for a major company that was class action sued for the same thing. That is, not giving 3rd party service companies the diagnostic software to allow them to service my companies products thus giving the company I work for a monopoly on service. My company lost that class action in 1992 and we had to allow anyone to be able to purchase the diagnostic software to service the products.

So if someone was to fight BRP on this policy I am sure BRP would loose. But who is going to do that? In my companies case it was a 500 million a year revenue stream that was locked out to any competition. Obviously enough to incent a company and lawyers to go after.

Bob

BRP is canadian based and a lawsuit may have to start there???

Cruzr Joe

[Jeriatric]

http://www.ipvancouverblog.com/canad...seofdominance/

[Lamonster]

I still contend that is a illegal policy here in the US. It does not allow 3rd parties to have a business and service the Spyder. This is called unfair competition.

I work for a major company that was class action sued for the same thing. That is, not giving 3rd party service companies the diagnostic software to allow them to service my companies products thus giving the company I work for a monopoly on service. My company lost that class action in 1992 and we had to allow anyone to be able to purchase the diagnostic software to service the products.

So if someone was to fight BRP on this policy I am sure BRP would loose. But who is going to do that? In my companies case it was a 500 million a year revenue stream that was locked out to any competition. Obviously enough to incent a company and lawyers to go after.

Bob

You may be right but the least the other company could is remove the BRP logos from their software. For sure they own those.

[Nils888]

Next question. What are the people that are doing Laser alignments that are not BRP dealers doing???

[ponyexp]

Thanks for the input. It's good to get your inputs and points of view. We have some good people out there, Thanks
Denny

[finless]

BRP is canadian based and a lawsuit may have to start there???

Cruzr Joe

To sell products in the US requires compliance. So if I wanted to buy BUDs since I am in the US they would have to sell it to me. Other countries, whatever their laws are. My company is world wide so we have to go by laws for a country we sell in.

Just like this law for France, Toubon's law. If you don't translate your UI or documentation to French, you can't sell your product in France or pay the fines!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toubon_Law


Bob

[Dizneyman]

The software is "Intellectual property" of BRP, and they do not have to sell it. It is very common in the high tech world for diagnostic software to not be sold to the general public, but only authorized dealers and service providers. The company I work for does the same, as does companies such as Kodak, NCR, Pitney Bowes etc. It protects the service revenue, and ensures proper service.

[MidTNDawg]

How expensive is a buds system less computer??

There are not a lot of days that go by without changes here. Even if you purchase you are, practically speaking, instantly out of date.

[Magdave]

Next question. What are the people that are doing Laser alignments that are not BRP dealers doing???

[Pennyrick]

[QUOTE=finless;761956]To sell products in the US requires compliance. So if I wanted to buy BUDs since I am in the US they would have to sell it to me. Other countries, whatever their laws are. My company is world wide so we have to go by laws for a country we sell in.
Bob[/QUOTE

Bob:

I think this phrase is key... "Distribution and use of grey market products is in direct violation of intellectual property and copyright laws"

Legally, BRP has the right to protect their copyright everywhere they do business. Perhaps more importantly, BRP has to protect against an unauthorized person using their software to alter a vehicle to make it dangerous or unsafe to ride. I don't know the details of your company's stuff but maybe it wasn't completely proprietary.

[finless]

The software is "Intellectual property" of BRP, and they do not have to sell it. It is very common in the high tech world for diagnostic software to not be sold to the general public, but only authorized dealers and service providers. The company I work for does the same, as does companies such as Kodak, NCR, Pitney Bowes etc. It protects the service revenue, and ensures proper service.

And so I work for Xerox. And we got a class action in 1992 from 3rd party service providers, lost it, and now we have to sell our diagnostic software or sell access to it if it is embedded. So there you have it!

"Intellectual property" or not, you cant have a monopoly with it and based on many class actions like it including Kodak for it's service diagnostics, BRP could be forced to do the same. Again though I don't see high priced class action lawyers jumping on this one against BRP.

Bob

[Magdave]

You can buy a GM Tech2 that communicates with older GM cars no problem. The problem starts ~2012 models now everything has to be hooked up to GM's main web portal for any updates. I went through this with my 2012 Terrain . I added factory remote start and it had to be programed. The tech guy at the dealership I worked with let me watch everything and you had to drill down several sub menus to get to where you needed to be. There are so many computer systems on the newer cars and each is ID'ed by Vin as to what is allowed to be updated or changed.

[finless]

"The Federal and Ninth Circuits agree that “intellectual property rights
do not confer a privilege to violate the antitrust laws.” 40 In Kodak , the Ninth
Circuit noted that “two principles have emerged regarding the interplay
between these [antitrust and intellectual property] laws: (1) neither patent nor copyright
holders are immune from antitrust liability, and (2) patent and copyright holders may refuse to
sell or license protected work.”41

1 In 1994, Xerox settled an antitrust suit brought against it by a class of ISOs. Under the settlement, Xerox suspended its parts policy for 6 1/2 years and agreed to license its diagnostic software to ISOs for 4 1/2 years.



Bob

[Sny]

Next question. What are the people that are doing Laser alignments that are not BRP dealers doing???

If needed, they send you to a dealership for the steering position reset/re-zero.

[SpyRyd]

If needed, they send you to a dealership for the steering position reset/re-zero.

It's my understanding that some/many independent laser alignment folks have a "version" of BUDS. It is also my understanding that Lamont has the "real" BUDS that he uses to reset steering sensors following a laser alignment.

[Magdave]

It's my understanding that some/many independent laser alignment folks have a "version" of BUDS. It is also my understanding that Lamont has the "real" BUDS that he uses to reset steering sensors following a laser alignment.

Just like Microsoft there are always updates to Buds like the recent 2013 ECM update. That said I bet any old version will zero the steering. DPS has not changed.

[SpyRyd]

Just like Microsoft there are always updates to Buds like the recent 2013 ECM update. That said I bet any old version will zero the steering. DPS has not changed.

When I used the term "version" I wasn't referring to an outdated release but rather a non-BRP BUDS. Poor choice of words for sure.