Front tire swap affect alignment?

[MrLooney]

Ok, so let me ask it this way. Is it possible to adjust the tracking of the rear end and not alter the tracking of the belt?

YES! But to a small given amount. HOW? by moving the motor in the frame and keeping the belt aligned on the rear sprocket. BUT do you really want to go into all that kind of detailed trouble? Anything is possible, where there is a will there is a way. Any more absurd questions?

[DrewNJ]

YES! But to a small given amount. HOW? by moving the motor in the frame and keeping the belt aligned on the rear sprocket. BUT do you really want to go into all that kind of detailed trouble? Anything is possible, where there is a will there is a way. Any more absurd questions?

Absurd questions? Really?
All I was wondering is if the alignment was adjustable at the rear if it was found to be out...thanks!

[flybuddy]

[QUOTE=MrLooney;722256]

Agree with both of you. I tried to be as precise as possible knowing full well I was one step beyond Rube Goldberg with this. As far as the toe I remounted several times and took multiple readings. Accuracy may very well come from consistent rate of error on both sides. Anyway all I wound up doing was a half turn in on each rod and test drove on interstate. It seems better. [/QUOTE]



Now you've gone and done it !!
Just tightening the set nuts can change the TOE as much as 3/16" and you went a half turn on each sided!! WOW
Have you any idea if that half turn was toe in or toe out?

BUDDHA only knows where your settings are now!

Back to square one! Start over.....
Do not pass GO!
Do not collect 200 dollar!
Go directly to your nearest ROLO Guy for a
new LASER ALIGNMENT!!!
PAY Da Man Again!

Seems a bit extreme. If you make sure the rod is to one side or the other how in gods green earth will loosening the nut make a 3/16" diff? If careful, it shouldn't move at all. I've built aircraft and set wheel tracking before. The half thread (which is barely moving the rod) did not make a huge diff on the targets (and yes it was toward toe out). Have you ever looked at the procedure prior to laser alignments? What I did was space age compared to that. BRP has not been known for precision and accuracy when it comes to alignments from the factory. They provide no tools to the dealers many of who know little about 3 wheelers anyway. Yes, ROLO is MUCH more precise and I had a date set with ROLO on the first week of December for a redo (either way). In the interim it would have been hard to make it ride worse than it was and it's a 4 hour ride over. I get a lot of info from this site so I attempt to share this stuff for insight and so others can learn good (or bad) from my actions.
How about it? Anyone else with experience/background in Spyder alignments think a half thread turn is way too much?

[MrLooney]

Absurd questions? Really?
All I was wondering is if the alignment was adjustable at the rear if it was found to be out...thanks!

The Laser Alignment starts by adjusting the REAR wheel BELT alignment on the rear sprocket. After that any changes will and do effect the 3 wheel alignment. Once the over all Alignment has been completed PLEASE don't change any adjustments.

I hope your happy and satisfied with answers?

And I hope you get a good Tech to align your Spyder
Don't You Know I heard It Through The Grape Vine

[DrewNJ]

The Laser Alignment starts by adjusting the REAR wheel BELT alignment on the rear sprocket. After that any changes will and do effect the 3 wheel alignment. Once the over all Alignment has been completed PLEASE don't change any adjustments.

I hope your happy and satisfied with answers?

And I hope you get a good Tech to align your Spyder
Don't You Know I heard It Through The Grape Vine

Yep, thank you for that explanation. It was VERY helpful.

[MrLooney]

I hope your happy and enjoy your Spyder Roadster very much!
That goes for all Spyder Ryders

HEY wheres Bob D?

[Yfactor]

I hope your happy and enjoy your Spyder Roadster very much!
That goes for all Spyder Ryders

HEY wheres Bob D?

You don't see his beady red eyes peering out of the dark at you?

[MrLooney]

NOPEMaybe he has them closed or he's under water like an alligator about ready to pounce!

[GeoffCee]

1. Is the alignment for the rear adjustable? YES! But that adjustment is for the Belt alignment on the rear sprocket.

My understanding is that when the belt is adjusted with 1/16th inch clearance on the inside of the rear sprocket, the rear wheel sprocket and the engine drive sprocket are aligned within specification and the rear wheel and its tire runs true. The front wheel toe in/toe out adjustment has no bearing on rear wheel alignment.

[MrLooney]

My understanding is that when the belt is adjusted with 1/16th inch clearance on the inside of the rear sprocket, the rear wheel sprocket and the engine drive sprocket are aligned within specification and the rear wheel and its tire runs true. The front wheel toe in/toe out adjustment has no bearing on rear wheel alignment.

I think what you are saying here is 2 different things? > > >
1. the rear wheel sprocket and the engine drive sprocket are aligned within specification and the rear wheel and its tire runs true. YES ! this is aligning the engine to the rear wheel. Drive belt clearance (please correct me if I am wrong) is 1/16" or less from belt to inside spline on sprocket.

2. The front wheel toe in/toe out adjustment has no bearing on rear wheel alignment. NO.It has everything to do with the front wheel alignment. Why? Because once you have set the lasers in place on the front hubs / spindles then shoot the target location off the rear of the rear aluminum wheel (not the rubber) thus starting the alignment process. Now you are aligning the front wheels to the rear wheel. Final adjustments are made using all 4 targets.

When a Laser Alignment Tech understands how important each step is the easier his job is and the better his alignments are for accuracy.

I hope this helps clear up any confusion?

If you have had an alignment and are not happy with it take it back to your tech and ask him/her please check it again.
the grape vine is picking up a buzzzzz

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Dan I think you are the MAN ....... .........Mike

[Magdave]

Absurd questions? Really?
All I was wondering is if the alignment was adjustable at the rear if it was found to be out...thanks!

In a perfect world with perfect sprockets a proper aligned & tensioned belt should run true and be the basis for the front tires to be aligned. That is why BRP only aligns the front. Problem is the world is not perfect. If it was the rolo system would only use the fronts. There may also be some frame imperfection and/or engine misalignment. I know for a fact my rear sprocket is not I have seen it spin and it has a slight wobble during my tensioning at the dealer and the tech pointed it out to me. So what point do you use for alignment? Obviously it has to be the closest to the rim section. With the rim spinning it may be hard to see if your sprocket is better than mine. Anyway I will reiterate a properly tensioned & aligned belt should make the rear tire run pretty true. Not necessarily perfect.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Great Video Dave thanks I'm going to save that................I think on the sprocket thing on you Spyder some possibilities are : a tech at your dealer mis-aligned the parts on re-assembly and has damaged them......the parts were not machined correctly in the first place ( I don't think this was likely ). If it was #1 would the tech admit this ??????.....I'm not feeling good about that possibility ( from personal experience). As I remarked in an earlier post here the alignment thing is not IMHO a DIY type of thing.......and even the people with the LAZER system may not all be experienced enough YET to be getting it correct.....It may all depend on how serious the operator believes READING " the how the use " directions is.! ! !.......just sayin...Mike

[MrLooney]

In a perfect world with perfect sprockets a proper aligned & tensioned belt should run true and be the basis for the front tires to be aligned. That is why BRP only aligns the front. Problem is the world is not perfect. If it was the rolo system would only use the fronts. There may also be some frame imperfection and/or engine misalignment. I know for a fact my rear sprocket is not I have seen it spin and it has a slight wobble during my tensioning at the dealer and the tech pointed it out to me. So what point do you use for alignment? Obviously it has to be the closest to the rim section. With the rim spinning it may be hard to see if your sprocket is better than mine. Anyway I will reiterate a properly tensioned & aligned belt should make the rear tire run pretty true. Not necessarily perfect.

If all things were perfect !!

This measurement point is as far back as you can possibly get on the rear aluminum wheel. Do not measure from the rubber. The rear targets are then set the prescribed distance from the rear wheel. By the way the targets are parallel with the rear axle.

When parts are set up in a lathe and the lathe operator knows what he is doing then all things should be as near as perfect as possible. In todays automated factories these parts may not always be perfect thus causing that wobble in the Sprocket or even the rear wheel. That being said, lets now look at the rubber tire, it is not even remotely close to what the rear wheel has to be. Look at all the high spots and low spots you can visually see. How could you even come close to trying to find a place to shoot a laser beam from.

[RBS66]

Great Video Dave thanks I'm going to save that................I think on the sprocket thing on you Spyder some possibilities are : a tech at your dealer mis-aligned the parts on re-assembly and has damaged them......the parts were not machined correctly in the first place ( I don't think this was likely ). If it was #1 would the tech admit this ??????.....I'm not feeling good about that possibility ( from personal experience). As I remarked in an earlier post here the alignment thing is not IMHO a DIY type of thing.......and even the people with the LAZER system may not all be experienced enough YET to be getting it correct.....It may all depend on how serious the operator believes READING " the how the use " directions is.! ! !.......just sayin...Mike

This is very true I had my bike Rolo alignment done twice. The first time was not correct at all handlebars cocked to the left and turn signal would not cancel on its own and handling was terrible especialy left turns. Took it back they realigned it for free re balanced my front tires and it rides much much better now but still not perfect. It has a very noticeable pull to the right. The dealer ship I had it done at had only completed six alignments at that point. I think they need a little more practice. The mechanic working on my bike was trying very hard to make it perfect I have to give him credit for that.

[Magdave]

................I think on the sprocket thing on you Spyder some possibilities are : a tech at your dealer mis-aligned the parts on re-assembly and has damaged them......the parts were not machined correctly in the first place ( I don't think this was likely )....Mike

His explanation was it is cast that way If you look closely at the video his does it a little too you can see the belt move in and out just a touch. BRP uses a point from the frame for the front alignment ( pre 2013) 2013 is another beast it is supposed to have pre load brackets installed and done after the rim is off using their new laser system. All this is just "what I heard" never seen it done.

[MrLooney]

His explanation was it is cast that way If you look closely at the video his does it a little too you can see the belt move in and out just a touch. BRP uses a point from the frame for the front alignment ( pre 2013) 2013 is another beast it is supposed to have pre load brackets installed and done after the rim is off using their new laser system. All this is just "what I heard" never seen it done.

Look up the ROLO Site sponsor and find their video on the Laser Alignment.

Laser Alignment settings are not taken off any part of the frame and no parts of the bike are secured in any fashion. As you can see in the video, the lasers are mounted on the front Hubs and laser beams are projected both front and back to targets that are precisely measured a given distance from the bike.

Cast items are poured hot molten metal, as it cools it will shrink slightly and can warp so to speak. then it is machined as needed.

[Magdave]

Look up the ROLO Site sponsor and find their video on the Laser Alignment.

Laser Alignment settings are not taken off any part of the frame and no parts of the bike are secured in any fashion. As you can see in the video, the lasers are mounted on the front Hubs and laser beams are projected both front and back to targets that are precisely measured a given distance from the bike.

Cast items are poured hot molten metal, as it cools it will shrink slightly and can warp so to speak. then it is machined as needed.

I know exactly how Rolo does it and seen the video. I have also seen pictures of BRP's method. I was talking about BRP's method. As I said also you can see the wobble in the sprocket in the video so those are not very " machined" The rim obviously is better. Maybe that is why I have 10# of weights on my rear tire I used to work at GM in the Wheelroom and ran the machines that mated the rims and tires as well as balanced them. I also worked in the "Final" line area that did the final alignment of the front ends. I was the electrician that calibrated all these pieces of equipment. I too know a little about wheels tires and alignment.

[MrLooney]

I know exactly how Rolo does it and seen the video. I have also seen pictures of BRP's method. I was talking about BRP's method. As I said also you can see the wobble in the sprocket in the video so those are not very " machined" The rim obviously is better. Maybe that is why I have 10# of weights on my rear tire I used to work at GM in the Wheelroom and ran the machines that mated the rims and tires as well as balanced them. I also worked in the "Final" line area that did the final alignment of the front ends. I was the electrician that calibrated all these pieces of equipment. I too know a little about wheels tires and alignment.

[flybuddy]

Finally got my RT over to Rolo in Edgewater for a redo on the alignment. After my swap to 185/60/14s in the front I had noticed more straight line instability.
Turns out my alignment was almost dead on. This was after 6 different adjustments I had made with my homemade measuring system and doing trial and error rides. Nice to know that the Gloryders that I was shooting the flat firearm laser off of were obviously well machined.
Mike felt my issue was more with the front end height of bike and tire pressure. I have Elkas on a too high setting along with shock extender and Ron Bar. He cranked the shocks down lowering the front end by an inch and knocked my front tire pressure to 20. Mike is an absolute pleasure to deal with and a genius in his own right. Rides WONDERFULLY now. Thanks Much Rolo--you guys are the best!

[KX5062]

His explanation was it is cast that way If you look closely at the video his does it a little too you can see the belt move in and out just a touch. BRP uses a point from the frame for the front alignment ( pre 2013) 2013 is another beast it is supposed to have pre load brackets installed and done after the rim is off using their new laser system. All this is just "what I heard" never seen it done.

Lest we not forget. The wheels are Chinese made and appear to be of indifferent quality. At least that goes for my 08 GS. Many things on the bike impress me, but the wheels and brakes do not.

Finally got my RT over to Rolo in Edgewater for a redo on the alignment. After my swap to 185/60/14s in the front I had noticed more straight line instability.
Turns out my alignment was almost dead on. This was after 6 different adjustments I had made with my homemade measuring system and doing trial and error rides. Nice to know that the Gloryders that I was shooting the flat firearm laser off of were obviously well machined.
Mike felt my issue was more with the front end height of bike and tire pressure. I have Elkas on a too high setting along with shock extender and Ron Bar. He cranked the shocks down lowering the front end by an inch and knocked my front tire pressure to 20. Mike is an absolute pleasure to deal with and a genius in his own right. Rides WONDERFULLY now. Thanks Much Rolo--you guys are the best!

That's good info. I switched to these tires (General Altamax) on my 08 GS and have been extremely pleased with them. I think they are far better than the stock tires. They seem to run straight and true with increased rideability and cornering. Time will tell on wear.