Front tire swap affect alignment?

[flybuddy]

Had a Laser alignment done last month at Biketoberfest with good results. Just changed my front tires out last week to General Altimax 185/60R14s. The Generals are much smoother and grip better BUT it seems to be darting around some in windy conditions and highway riding like it did before the alignment. Tried different tire pressures with no noticeable difference. Can a tire size change affect alignment?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Had a Laser alignment done last month at Biketoberfest with good results. Just changed my front tires out last week to General Altimax 185/60R14s. The Generals are much smoother and grip better BUT it seems to be darting around some in windy conditions and highway riding like it did before the alignment. Tried different tire pressures with no noticeable difference. Can a tire size change affect alignment?

IMHO...I don't believe the difference in overall size between new vs. worn tire should have any effect on the alignment,or even a small change in tire size. Our front suspension is designed for some amount of allowance without having to correct the alignment .....if it didn't just having a passenger would be enough to throw it off ...but it doesn't...................even after I put " RADICAL " front shock angle adjusters on mine it didn't alter the alignment enough to make an adjustment necessary. I seriously doubt your tires are causing this ........Mike

[rnet]

Had a Laser alignment done last month at Biketoberfest with good results. Just changed my front tires out last week to General Altimax 185/60R14s. The Generals are much smoother and grip better BUT it seems to be darting around some in windy conditions and highway riding like it did before the alignment. Tried different tire pressures with no noticeable difference. Can a tire size change affect alignment?

This is the same tire I run, recommend, and have installed on several spyders and the tire will not change your alignment. I will say that all alignment are not equal, and there are other things that could take your alignment out such as pot holes, curb hits, and worn suspension parts. Also I run at 20lbs pressure.

[happyspyder2039]

Had a Laser alignment done last month at Biketoberfest with good results. Just changed my front tires out last week to General Altimax 185/60R14s. The Generals are much smoother and grip better BUT it seems to be darting around some in windy conditions and highway riding like it did before the alignment. Tried different tire pressures with no noticeable difference. Can a tire size change affect alignment?

what your feeling is possibly the tread. Some tires seem to find the grooves in road way.

[bruiser]

what your feeling is possibly the tread. Some tires seem to find the grooves in road way.

So will shocks.

[flybuddy]

Thx, I agree that it's doubtful the alignment changed. I'll try lower tire pressure, different grip, as suggested, may have something to do with this also.

[rcturner]

Actually, alignment has nothing to do with the tires. It is based on the alignment of the spindles. The tires are just along for the ride.

[docdoru]

Any change of tires should be followed by a new alignment.

[flybuddy]

Any change of tires should be followed by a new alignment.

If the alignment doesn't change, then why?
I did some interstate driving yesterday and it's not my imagination, it's darting around more than it did even before the alignment. I'm going to jack it up tomorrow and start looking for anything loose. I'm also going to rig up some laser lights to the front hubs and measure the front distance vs back the back distance (between the dots) to see if something is awry.

[DrewNJ]

Wider tires seem to find the imperfections in the road much more easily too.

[flybuddy]

Wider tires seem to find the imperfections in the road much more easily too.

Thx but nothing that simple. It will track fine in calm conditions. Throw in some trucks and a windy day and it starts darting about. I've got 13K riding this and this is pretty much what it did when new. I did lots of mods and eliminated 95% of it. Even prior to the laser alignment I was fairly happy with it. After the laser alignment it was great. I can't believe that tires alone did this especially as many others run these same tires with good results. I'll post what I find after I get under there tomorrow.

[rcturner]

Any change of tires should be followed by a new alignment.

What is it that you feel changes with different tires? Tires can change handling but not alignment.

[flybuddy]

What is it that you feel changes with different tires? Tires can change handling but not alignment.

Actually, the handling is much better. It's the ability to resist change in track from outside forces that went downhill. Anyway, problem solved. I made up my own cheap mans laser alignment check. I have Gloryders on the front hubs that stick out with flat caps, put a piece of velcro on them and attached a home depot laser alignment tool that has a level in it also. Parked the spyder dead on the center expansion joint in my garage which is exactly centered in 20' deep garage. Marked where dots hit on wall in front and door in back. It was 62 7/8" between dots in front and 63 3/4 in rear. After seeing the initial post, ROLO (company that did the laser alignment for me last month) got in touch with me and had called a General tire distributor that also does Spyder alignments. Due to the stiffer sidewall and taller tire it will tend to sit differently as if it is toed in. I was offered a free realignment and even offered to stay over his house since it's a long ride..Great people!

[Magdave]

Actually, the handling is much better. It's the ability to resist change in track from outside forces that went downhill. Anyway, problem solved. I made up my own cheap mans laser alignment check. I have Gloryders on the front hubs that stick out with flat caps, put a piece of velcro on them and attached a home depot laser alignment tool that has a level in it also. Parked the spyder dead on the center expansion joint in my garage which is exactly centered in 20' deep garage. Marked where dots hit on wall in front and door in back. It was 62 7/8" between dots in front and 63 3/4 in rear. After seeing the initial post, ROLO (company that did the laser alignment for me last month) got in touch with me and had called a General tire distributor that also does Spyder alignments. Due to the stiffer sidewall and taller tire it will tend to sit differently as if it is toed in. I was offered a free realignment and even offered to stay over his house since it's a long ride..Great people!

Ahh so Camber changed with new tire that affected the alignment. Even sitting on it can do that too. I am pretty sure Rolo has some offsets they use depending on the expected load it will carry and it makes perfect sense. Maybe the tires need a little less air in them to sit lower

[flybuddy]

Got to work on it some today and took out half the toe in. While under there I checked the back wheel for straightness by laying the laser along each side of the rear tire and then measuring the distance between the laser line to the front tire on the same side. Surprisingly, the left front tire came up 1.5" closer to the line then the right side did. Tried it several different ways and kept coming up with same answer. My rear tire is apparently not tracking straight at all. I've never adjusted the rear wheel and the belt gap and track seems good. Out of time today, will adjust that tomorrow.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Got to work on it some today and took out half the toe in. While under there I checked the back wheel for straightness by laying the laser along each side of the rear tire and then measuring the distance between the laser line to the front tire on the same side. Surprisingly, the left front tire came up 1.5" closer to the line then the right side did. Tried it several different ways and kept coming up with same answer. My rear tire is apparently not tracking straight at all. I've never adjusted the rear wheel and the belt gap and track seems good. Out of time today, will adjust that tomorrow.

I'm very much a D.I.Y.' er and I admire your attitude ......................however a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous......both for you and your Spyder........something as little as 1/64 in. at the source can be magnified greatly at 8 - 10 - 12 ft. away..................please be very careful......Mike

[MrLooney]

There are reasons why for each of the steps in the process of the Laser Alignment process.
By just throwing a laser here and there and think you have it centered from the side of the rubber may not be anywhere near accurate.

If you placed a dial indicator on the side of your tire and rotated it you would see what I am talking about. There would be a considerable change in the dial pointer.

If you place that dial indicator on the side of the wheel and rotated it again, you will see a much different readout (very little change).

Now let's go to the front wheel center's, mounting the laser to the outside of the wheel may or may not be a true 90 Degrees off center or center to the spindle. What about the inconsistence in thickness of the attaching medium (Velcro) will also cause variations to a 90 Degree setting from the spindle which is what you need to get an accurate alignment on the front wheels.

The ROLO laser tools are not mounted to the wheels. They are mounted to the hub face that holds the bearing on the spindle. This hub is machined to with in a thousands of an inch from center of the spindle. The face of the hub is also machined at the same time in a one step process.

In short, the ROLO Lasers are mounted precisely off the center of the spindle for the most accurate alignment settings.

[flybuddy]

Agree with both of you. I tried to be as precise as possible knowing full well I was one step beyond Rube Goldberg with this. As far as the toe I remounted several times and took multiple readings. Accuracy may very well come from consistent rate of error on both sides. Anyway all I wound up doing was a half turn in on each rod and test drove on interstate. It seems better. On the rear wheel, measuring after rotation DID produce ever changing results--unreliable method. Shooting laser from center of bumpskid to center of tire shows it to be centered (equal distance from line to both front wheels).

[Jeriatric]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Hats off to the folks at ROLO for their offer.

The Rolo alignment certainly seems to be the way to go. Though, how often, or why, it may need to be repeated is becoming a concern.

[MrLooney]

[QUOTE=flybuddy;722227]Agree with both of you. I tried to be as precise as possible knowing full well I was one step beyond Rube Goldberg with this. As far as the toe I remounted several times and took multiple readings. Accuracy may very well come from consistent rate of error on both sides. Anyway all I wound up doing was a half turn in on each rod and test drove on interstate. It seems better. The rear wheel has me baffled. If I shoot a laser line directly from center of rear tire to center of bump skid, the measurements from each front wheel to line are equal. However, any measurement or method used from side of tires gave same result. I like idea of rotating tire and will try several more methods before I start adjusting. Other than just watching the belt trackhow can you tell if rear wheel is tracking straight? [/QUOTE]



Now you've gone and done it !!
Just tightening the set nuts can change the TOE as much as 3/16" and you went a half turn on each sided!! WOW
Have you any idea if that half turn was toe in or toe out?

BUDDHA only knows where your settings are now!

Back to square one! Start over.....
Do not pass GO!
Do not collect 200 dollar!
Go directly to your nearest ROLO Guy for a
new LASER ALIGNMENT!!!
PAY Da Man Again!

[DrewNJ]

Is alignment for the rear adjustable? I thought the only adjustments that were possible were to adjust toe?


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[Magdave]

Is alignment for the rear adjustable? I thought the only adjustments that were possible were to adjust toe?


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Every time you adjust the belt the rear tracking changes. It is very adjustable one bolt on each side and unless you adjust each exactly the same it will change the wheel direction.

[MrLooney]

Is alignment for the rear adjustable? I thought the only adjustments that were possible were to adjust toe?


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1. Is the alignment for the rear adjustable? YES! But that adjustment is for the Belt alignment on the rear sprocket.

2. Then setting up the Lasers on the front wheels.

3. Two laser targets are set at a specific distance back from the front wheels and a specific distance out from the rear wheel. This is in effect the beginning point of the 3 wheel alignment. At this point most Techs can tell you if your Roadster has good or bad alignment. It is also the starting point for all 3 wheels being synced together for a true alignment.

4. The biggest problem is if the TECH knows precisely what to do and when to do it! The grape vine is starting to talk!

5. Front two targets are located and set.

6. Adjust the tie rods to proper settings.

7. Secure tie rods

8. Test ride

9. If good Pay Da Man !!

There are many more details I have left out (boring for the most part) but very important in the over all process..........

I wish you good luck with your LASER TECH GUY

[DrewNJ]

Ok, so let me ask it this way. Is it possible to adjust the tracking of the rear end and not alter the tracking of the belt?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

For those of you that are not aware of this Dan aka Mr.Looney is not guessing about all this , He is trained in using the ROLO Lazer alignment system........just clarifying the info being stated here and by whom........Mike