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My Laser Alignment Experience...
Finally got the chance to get the Lamonster Laser Alignment.
Not that long ago, Lamont and I replaced both tie rods and all 8 A-Arm bushings. Then we PAINSTAKINGLY did an alignment by the numbers and by the BRP book. We checked and double checked until we were sure it was right on.
But, as it turns out, I was about 1.5" out. Granted, this is at 74". I'll let Scotty do the math for what I was actually out at the wheel. But the very reason 74" is used is to exaggerate the deflection which then gives you an EXTREMELY accurate final result. Believe me, your Spyder will appreciate it!
I really didn't have any complaints about my BRP Book alignment. One of the reasons Lamont and I wanted to check my Spyder is specifically because we had done the BRP book alignment previously and we wanted to see how it stacked up to the Laser method.
And to be frank, the BRP alignment method seemed to be fine and was worlds better than what I had before. But my satisfaction was based on the improvement from worse, not on a comparison to Right On. As it turns out, I am much happier now. I didn't know what I was missing.
My Spyder just loves to go straight now. Not that I thought it was a problem before. But it's definitely better now.
My Spyder also turns easier. Like cranking up the power steering input. Not drastic, but noticeable.
The Laser Alighment is definitely worth the effort.
Since Lamont doesn't charge if you don't need correction, seems to me a 'No-Brainer' to at least get your Spyder checked. Even if you think you're happy with it now.
Who knows! I may even see the improved fuel mileage that some have experienced.
Shop Ph: 423-609-7588 (M-F, 8-5, Eastern Time)
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Registered Users
Problem is he's no where near me to get mine checked. Guess i'm stuck till someone near me get's the system and learns how to use it!
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MOgang Member
Lamont did mine down in Florida a bit ago. Turns out both my front tires were both heading to the right a bit.
Saw some difference going straight, but the big difference is the left hand turns are now as easy as the right hand turns.
Joy
Very Happy Ryder... '09 Phantom and a '15 F3-S
If you don't slow down, they can't catch you..
If you don't give up, they can't win.
What a long strange journey its been.
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Registered Users
Hi Ron, I had my alignment and one of your bars installed last Friday at Blackmans. Your bar is awesome what a huge improvement. As far as my alignment I have to go back to them Saturday or Tuesday and have a little more tweaking done my handlebars cock to the left and my left turn signal will not cancel now. Also the bike still seems a little Squirrley.
BUT THANKS AGAIN FOR THE BAR.
Last edited by RBS66; 10-24-2013 at 05:51 PM.
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Motorbike Professor
I was hoping you would do this for comparison. Thanks so much for reporting the difference. I think you put it quite well,,,no need to do the math, using longer distance exaggerates any deviation, and makes the results super accurate. All alignment specs have a small tolerance allowed. This tiny deviation can be detrimental on the Spyder. If it is available in your area, the Outlaw alignment is certainly the way to go. Like Ron, you won't know what you are missing until you feel the results.
-Scotty
2011 Spyder RTS-SM5 (mine)
2000 BMW R1100RTP, motorized tricycle & 23 vintage bikes
2011 RT-622 trailer, Aspen Sentry popup camper, custom motorcycle trailer to pull behind the Spyder
Mutant Trikes Forever!
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Doru the Destroyer-Spyder Photo Investigator
2013 "Silver Dream" GG Taurus
2008 "Silver Dream" Spyder RS
Einstein's theory of drag racing: Time and Speed are Relative.
Shut up and Race!
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Motorbike Professor
-Scotty
2011 Spyder RTS-SM5 (mine)
2000 BMW R1100RTP, motorized tricycle & 23 vintage bikes
2011 RT-622 trailer, Aspen Sentry popup camper, custom motorcycle trailer to pull behind the Spyder
Mutant Trikes Forever!
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SpyderLovers Sponsor
Originally Posted by RBS66
Hi Ron, I had my alignment and one of your bars installed last Friday at Blackmans. Your bar is awesome what a huge improvement. As far as my alignment I have to go back to them Saturday or Tuesday and have a little more tweaking done my handlebars cock to the left and my left turn signal will not cancel now. Also the bike still seems a little Squirrley.
BUT THANKS AGAIN FOR THE BAR.
Glad you like the bar! Too bad it doesn't correct alignment issues.... I'm working on that!
I hope they are doing BUDS on your alignment. Sounds like your problem may be bigger than just BUDS. But proper alignment can't be done without BUDS.
Shop Ph: 423-609-7588 (M-F, 8-5, Eastern Time)
Only SLOW people have to leave on time...
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SpyderLovers Founder
Originally Posted by RBS66
Hi Ron, I had my alignment and one of your bars installed last Friday at Blackmans. Your bar is awesome what a huge improvement. As far as my alignment I have to go back to them Saturday or Tuesday and have a little more tweaking done my handlebars cock to the left and my left turn signal will not cancel now. Also the bike still seems a little Squirrley.
BUT THANKS AGAIN FOR THE BAR.
For sure they didn't start with the bars straight and zero your steering angle sensor. They need to do that now and realign your Spyder and then check your steering angle sensor and torque sensor again.
By by the way Rolo/Outlaw now are convinced that having BUDS is required when doing proper alignment and has sent an email stating this to all their dealers. That still requires you to know how to use BUDS
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Harrrummmph!.....Can't get this done in the UK!!
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SpyderLovers Founder
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Very Active Member
May all your encounters with the law begin with the words: "nice trike!".[/B]
2015 Can-Am Spyder F3-S SM-6 Can-am Red/Black SM-6 with 2010 Black RT-622 trailer (hitch in the works).
Previously owned:
2010 Can-Am Spyder RT SM-5
2011 Can-Am Spyder RS-S SM-5
2013 Can-Am Spyder RT-S SM-5
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Registered Users
Originally Posted by Lamonster
For sure they didn't start with the bars straight and zero your steering angle sensor. They need to do that now and realign your Spyder and then check your steering angle sensor and torque sensor again.
By by the way Rolo/Outlaw now are convinced that having BUDS is required when doing proper alignment and has sent an email stating this to all their dealers. That still requires you to know how to use BUDS
Yes they did use the BUD system but not till the end. Should they have used the BUDs in the beginning to re-zero Steering angle sensor?
thanks Rob
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SpyderLovers Founder
Originally Posted by RBS66
Yes they did use the BUD system but not till the end. Should they have used the BUDs in the beginning to re-zero Steering angle sensor?
thanks Rob
You need to start with your bars straight. They should have a jig to lock it in if they can't get a good eyeball on it. They they would check the steering angle sensor to make sure it's at zero, if not they would then zero it out along with the torque sensor. Then they would do the alinement. After the alignment is done they should check it again but if they held the laser on target while doing the adjustment it should be pretty darn close.
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Originally Posted by RBS66
Yes they did use the BUD system but not till the end. Should they have used the BUDs in the beginning to re-zero Steering angle sensor?
thanks Rob
As Lamont says; not only is BUDS required, but the person using BUDS has to know what they are doing to get an accurate alignment.
You can imagine what the end result is going to be if your bars are turned, even slightly, while doing an alignment, Laser or otherwise. If the bars are turned a few degrees and you tell the sensor that the bars are straight, you've got issues before you even get started. The Laser process assumes that you have got the steering mechanism zeroed. If not, you're wasting your time.
I know Lamont spends a lot of time making sure that everything is right before he sends you away for a test ride. And he also has tricks up his sleeve for the few Spyders that just don't want to cooperate.
Laser is UBER accurate. But if not done properly, Laser can be very accurately wrong...
Hang in there. I'm sure you're efforts will help your guys refine their procedure.
Last edited by BajaRon; 10-25-2013 at 10:18 AM.
Shop Ph: 423-609-7588 (M-F, 8-5, Eastern Time)
Only SLOW people have to leave on time...
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Originally Posted by Lamonster
You need to start with your bars straight. They should have a jig to lock it in if they can't get a good eyeball on it. They they would check the steering angle sensor to make sure it's at zero, if not they would then zero it out along with the torque sensor. Then they would do the alinement. After the alignment is done they should check it again but if they held the laser on target while doing the adjustment it should be pretty darn close.
If I recall the manual correctly, the jig is required for a conventional alignment. Hence all dealers should have one and be familiar with it. It seems like Outlaw should specify using that jig as the first step, if one is available. I guess the non-dealers could rely on the eyeball technique.
I had mine done at Blackman's this week. It was correct as-is. At 74", it is off 1/8" which is not worth trying to correct as you might make it worse or at least not any better. So with 30,000 miles on the bike, my alignment is good and has been. At least now I know. Worth the price, which by the way, was only half the normal price. Since they didn't have to make any adjustments, Blackman's only charged me half. How fair is that!
RT and Gold Wing States & Provinces
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SpyderLovers Founder
Originally Posted by gypsy_100
If I recall the manual correctly, the jig is required for a conventional alignment. Hence all dealers should have one and be familiar with it. It seems like Outlaw should specify using that jig as the first step, if one is available. I guess the non-dealers could rely on the eyeball technique.
I had mine done at Blackman's this week. It was correct as-is. At 74", it is off 1/8" which is not worth trying to correct as you might make it worse or at least not any better. So with 30,000 miles on the bike, my alignment is good and has been. At least now I know. Worth the price, which by the way, was only half the normal price. Since they didn't have to make any adjustments, Blackman's only charged me half. How fair is that!
That's great. I've only had a few that were close enough that I didn't do an adjustment. I don't charge anything if I don't put a wrench to the rods.
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Registered Users
Thank you Lamont and Baja Ron, I have an appointment with my dealer on Tuesday. My bike is running very rough at 80 miles an hour felt very squarely and lots of vibration in the ass end after my alignment. It felt like it wanted to be put back into fourth gear. Also there are 18 weights on my front left tire.
THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP GUYs
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Originally Posted by gypsy_100
If I recall the manual correctly, the jig is required for a conventional alignment. Hence all dealers should have one and be familiar with it. It seems like Outlaw should specify using that jig as the first step, if one is available. I guess the non-dealers could rely on the eyeball technique.
I had mine done at Blackman's this week. It was correct as-is. At 74", it is off 1/8" which is not worth trying to correct as you might make it worse or at least not any better. So with 30,000 miles on the bike, my alignment is good and has been. At least now I know. Worth the price, which by the way, was only half the normal price. Since they didn't have to make any adjustments, Blackman's only charged me half. How fair is that!
The jig is supposed to be foolproof but it seems obvious to me that not all, or even most dealerships have this devise, much less are familiar with it or the proper alignment process.
Just listening to the number of posts (plus PM's, emails and phone conversations) describing a dealership saying that abnormal tire wear, pulling to one side, or steering harder in one direction than in the other are 'Normal', 'They all do that', 'There is noting that can be done to fix that' means to me that many dealerships are not prepared to do any form of alignment service.
I know of other dealerships that will simply make a 1/4 or 1/2 turn on the tie rod adjusters hoping to improve alignment. You may laugh but I was in a dealership when a salesman told a couple riding an RT that they would do this very thing. They were there because the insides of their tires were completely gone after only a few thousand miles while the rest of their front tires looked brand new.
At least the dealership acknowledged it was a 'Fixable' alignment issue.
I almost said something to the owners about this dubious approach to the problem. I still feel a bit guilty for not at least voicing my concerns. But I figured who are they going to believe? An authorized BRP dealership employee or some guy they never met.
I still wonder how that worked out. It would be nothing short of a miracle if it didn't cause a bigger problem.
As I said, the 'Centering Tool' is probably fail-safe but it is obvious to me that someone with a good deal of experience, like Lamont and others, can center the steering accurately without the tool. Many examples of this can be sighted including my Spyder. As in most mechanical situations, it comes down to the expertise, experience and integrity of the one doing the work.
Last edited by BajaRon; 10-25-2013 at 10:42 AM.
Shop Ph: 423-609-7588 (M-F, 8-5, Eastern Time)
Only SLOW people have to leave on time...
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Originally Posted by Lamonster
That's great. I've only had a few that were close enough that I didn't do an adjustment. I don't charge anything if I don't put a wrench to the rods.
Now that is more than fair!
Originally Posted by BajaRon
As I said, the 'Centering Tool' is probably fail-safe but it is obvious to me that someone with a good deal of experience, like Lamont and others, can center the steering accurately without the tool. Many examples of this can be sighted including my Spyder. As in most mechanical situations, it comes down to the expertise, experience and integrity of the one doing the work.
Agree on all counts!
RT and Gold Wing States & Provinces
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Originally Posted by RBS66
Thank you Lamont and Baja Ron, I have an appointment with my dealer on Tuesday. My bike is running very rough at 80 miles an hour felt very squarely and lots of vibration in the ass end after my alignment. It felt like it wanted to be put back into fourth gear. Also there are 18 weights on my front left tire.
THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP GUYs
Oh! Ouch!
18 weights on a truck tire is a lot. On the small Spyder tire that seems a bit ridiculous to me. If it actually needed that much weight you might as well hang a 'Don't Use This Defective Tire' on it. Something is definitely wrong there.
Running rough... did your dealership do any 'Tune Up' maintenance? Maybe replace the spark plugs? If so you may well have deceased spark plug wires. This is a classic scenario. Never replace the spark plugs without changing out the wires if you're using OEM parts. The wires will fail better than 50% of the time.
Did they mess with rear wheel alignment/belt tension? Is your belt tracking correctly on the rear sprocket?
Hang in there till they get it right and let us know what the fix ended up being.
Last edited by BajaRon; 10-25-2013 at 10:54 AM.
Shop Ph: 423-609-7588 (M-F, 8-5, Eastern Time)
Only SLOW people have to leave on time...
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Originally Posted by BajaRon
Oh! Ouch!
18 weights on a truck tire is a lot. On the small Spyder tire that seems a bit ridiculous to me. If it actually needed that much weight you might as well hang a 'Don't Use This Defective Tire' on it. Something is definitely wrong there.
Running rough... did your dealership do any 'Tune Up' maintenance? Maybe replace the spark plugs? If so you may well have deceased spark plug wires. This is a classic scenario. Never replace the spark plugs without changing out the wires if you're using OEM parts. The wires will fail better than 50% of the time.
Did they mess with rear wheel alignment/belt tension? Is your belt tracking correctly on the rear sprocket?
Hang in there till they get it right and let us know what the fix ended up being.
My bike is a 2013 RT with 1200 miles on it I purchased it August 23. While it was in the shop having the alignment and your bar installed they did check the rear wheel alignment and belt tension. I spoke to my dealer about the 18 weights and they are going to check that on Tuesday also.
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Originally Posted by RBS66
My bike is a 2013 RT with 1200 miles on it I purchased it August 23. While it was in the shop having the alignment and your bar installed they did check the rear wheel alignment and belt tension. I spoke to my dealer about the 18 weights and they are going to check that on Tuesday also.
It is good that they checked the rear wheel alignment as the Laser works off the rear wheel. For the alignment to be right, the rear wheel has to be right.
Anytime you alter the belt tension you will get a period of belt vibration (in my experience). I assume this is the belt getting settled into the new configuration. I've got my guesses as to why but no solid evidence.
In my case I've changed belt tension 3 times (as BRP's specs changed). Each time I experienced a higher degree of belt vibration for a time. But eventually it settled down.
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