ceramic coating

[cuznjohn]

does ceramic coating really help in dropping temps on the pipes, if so how hard is it to remove the header and pipes from the bike, does the engine need to be pulled or can it be done by just stripping the Tupperware. i was just looking at a few sites about it and i am not sure if it is done for looks or for heat problems. also is the gas tank removable w/o doing much work, because if the bike is having so many problems would it be worth to do it.

[Magdave]

Yes it works and you do not need to pull the engine. It will reduce but not eliminate the heat


http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index.php?topic=46025.0

And here are temp readings to confirm
http://www.centuryperformance.com/ex...o-not-use.html

[cuznjohn]

it is interesting but is it worth doing.

[Magdave]

it is interesting but is it worth doing.

Some people on Spyders have done it . BRP probably should have done it on the RT at least IMHO. There would not have been any melting problems. They cheaped out and gave us tinfoil.

[Magdave]

I would only recommend the jet hots inside and out coating.

[Bob Denman]

John, With the issues that you and others have been having; I would say that it is worth serious consideration!

[crazyspyder]

yeah it helps a lot, my opinion that is. I took off all the sides Tupperware and used DEI titanium HT silicon spray and sprayed without taking any plumbing off - you'll get some over spray but don't think its that bad. also make sure to spray at least 3 coats and let dry for 10m. or use heat gun between coats. I went an extra step and use their DEI titanium wrap strap to the exposed pipes especially on the left side near gas tank....and used DEI foil tape around Tupperware and gas tank area.

[johnwinslow]

I would like to see some pictures of that it is a long cold winter here in Maine and I was thinking this would be worth doing

[crazyspyder]

I would like to see some pictures of that it is a long cold winter here in Maine and I was thinking this would be worth doing

search in this forum for exhaust wrapping 2 , under midlifecrises member -he has pictures ! I will post some of my own at the end of the week. in shop ...

[SNOOPY]

yeah it helps a lot, my opinion that is. I took off all the sides Tupperware and used DEI titanium HT silicon spray and sprayed without taking any plumbing off - you'll get some over spray but don't think its that bad. also make sure to spray at least 3 coats and let dry for 10m. or use heat gun between coats. I went an extra step and use their DEI titanium wrap strap to the exposed pipes especially on the left side near gas tank....and used DEI foil tape around Tupperware and gas tank area.

Does this spray smell after to start your Spyder the first few times?

I remember exhaust sprays of the past having a really bad smell for a while after application.

[wetmountainman]

Quote from frank3 on 8/07/2013... "FYI, removed both headers 2 years ago on my 2010 RT-S, had them ceramic coated. Coating didn't make much of a difference so this year I removed the headers again and wrapped them in 1" with a much better reduction in heat. Don't bother with the ceramic JMO. "

[SNOOPY]

Quote from frank3 on 8/07/2013... "FYI, removed both headers 2 years ago on my 2010 RT-S, had them ceramic coated. Coating didn't make much of a difference so this year I removed the headers again and wrapped them in 1" with a much better reduction in heat. Don't bother with the ceramic JMO. "

Wow that was an expensive lesson.


I wonder how the "wraps" affect performance?


Or is it "effects", I always get them mixed up.

[wetmountainman]

Question: Does fully wrapping the exhaust pipes create any adverse problems to the pipes, or to engine performance. Someone mentioned possible problems with the pipes briefly in another post but I can't find it now. I know I've seen a lot of motorcycles with fully wrapped pipes, but I never thought about that creating problems.

[crazyspyder]

Does this spray smell after to start your Spyder the first few times?

I remember exhaust sprays of the past having a really bad smell for a while after application.

No / yes , a slight odor for a few hours - then goes away. not bad at all ! I can only vouch for the DEI brand thought- I have used other ceramic sprays and they zucked n smelled. racing enthusiast use titanium ceramic coatings as of to date, SO yeah they do work. just don't expect a header to be cold at high rpm. I used 2'' titanium heat wrap I conjuction with ceramic coatings.and my Tupperware stays decently cooler.

[SNOOPY]

No / yes , a slight odor for a few hours - then goes away. not bad at all ! I can only vouch for the DEI brand thought- I have used other ceramic sprays and they zucked n smelled. racing enthusiast use titanium ceramic coatings as of to date, SO yeah they do work. just don't expect a header to be cold at high rpm. I used 2'' titanium heat wrap I conjuction with ceramic coatings.and my Tupperware stays decently cooler.

So your header pipes are fully wrapped and no adverse engine effects? Just asking.

[PW2013STL]

Motorcycle Consumer News did a write up on the new Indian motorcycles and they wrote

"To prevent the exhaust headers from generating uncomfortable temperatures close to the rider's right leg, both headers are ceramic coated, which can reduce their radiated heat by as much as 130*"

The last set of headers that helped reduce the heat on my right leg on my 2011 Harley was ceramic coated inside and out, so I know it helps.

[crazyspyder]

So your header pipes are fully wrapped and no adverse engine effects? Just asking.

// none whatsoever and no warranty issues.

[CCPcoatings]

does ceramic coating really help in dropping temps on the pipes, if so how hard is it to remove the header and pipes from the bike, does the engine need to be pulled or can it be done by just stripping the Tupperware. i was just looking at a few sites about it and i am not sure if it is done for looks or for heat problems. also is the gas tank removable w/o doing much work, because if the bike is having so many problems would it be worth to do it.

What kind of issues are you experiencing?

[CCPcoatings]

Question: Does fully wrapping the exhaust pipes create any adverse problems to the pipes, or to engine performance. Someone mentioned possible problems with the pipes briefly in another post but I can't find it now. I know I've seen a lot of motorcycles with fully wrapped pipes, but I never thought about that creating problems.

If you're wrapping Stainless Steel or TI pipes you don't have much to worry about. The biggest problem arises when wrapping mild steel and or chrome pipes. The wrap tends to hold a lot of moisture in which accelerates corrosion (see below). If they are mild steel, you'll need to coat them first. Beyond that, wraps are pretty effective thermal barriers so long as you keep them clean and oil free.

Rust%u00252520from%2520Header%2520Wrap-CCPcoatings.com.jpg

Rust%u00252520from%2520HeaderWrap%25202-CCPcoatings.com.jpg

[OWISE1]

Wow that was an expensive lesson.


I wonder how the "wraps" affect performance?


Or is it "effects", I always get them mixed up.

Look here for wraps....http://www.centuryperformance.com/ex...o-not-use.html....

[billrob71]

I have not had it done on mine yet but gonna have it done this winter. Expensive but worth it.

[CCPcoatings]

Look here for wraps....http://www.centuryperformance.com/ex...o-not-use.html....

The article is a little over dramatic to say the least, not to mention the temp readings from the coated headers are purposely MISLEADING.... Jet Hot and the like historically use an IR temp gun to gauge surface temps which unless they are "calibrated" for a reflective surface are USELESS and will register much less than the actual temp.

We've worked with headers / exhaust systems ranging from 5hp mini bikes to 4500HP+ twin turbo shoot out cars for close to 15 years. There are "extremes" in any application that tend to be the EXCEPTION and not the rule. Most headers / exhaust systems that experience cracks or fatigue are the result of bad welds, insufficient material, and or a combination of both in a stressed or structural application. i.e. various exhaust components are being used in a structural manner and not properly speced.

There is some validity to the advantages to coating the pipes in that Ceramic Coating functions as both a thermal barrier and also dissipates heat from its surface. In that the Spyder is a relatively mild application i.e. normally aspirated, open air and seemingly constructed from SS, you have very little to worry about. Keep in mind if these pipes are in fact SS, that is the primary source of your thermal issues. SS is great for thermal shock and a strong substrate for exhaust components but because it is denser than mild steel it keeps much of it heat on its surface much like a heat sink and it takes longer to dissipate if not aided by any coatings.

[Magdave]

search in this forum for exhaust wrapping 2 , under midlifecrises member -he has pictures ! I will post some of my own at the end of the week. in shop ...

If you read the article I posted it tells you why you should NOT use a wrap but it is your bike

I believe that the wraps are good to protect various underhood 'items' from heat, but not for the use of holding the heat in the header. For example: you can use the wrapping for the protection of fuel and oil lines, wiring, covering a starter motor, etc.

Cool air needs to be around the header, and insulating it with a wrap to hold exhaust heat in makes the header material surface temperatures reach near molten levels. When you wrap the header you trap the heat in the header, but also suffocate the material that needs to breathe to dissipate heat for it's own survival.

This may not be totally true for a 100hp engine but if NASCAR experts say this I tend to think about it.

[Magdave]

Quote from frank3 on 8/07/2013... "FYI, removed both headers 2 years ago on my 2010 RT-S, had them ceramic coated. Coating didn't make much of a difference so this year I removed the headers again and wrapped them in 1" with a much better reduction in heat. Don't bother with the ceramic JMO. "

Wonder who did the coating? If you read the article links I posted and it was one of them I do not believe it. Rattle can sprays may not help much but getting them done professionally (watch the video) ensures the proper coating thickness crucial to getting the desired thickness. JMHO

[Magdave]

The article is a little over dramatic to say the least, not to mention the temp readings from the coated headers are purposely MISLEADING.... Jet Hot and the like historically use an IR temp gun to gauge surface temps which unless they are "calibrated" for a reflective surface are USELESS and will register much less than the actual temp.

We've worked with headers / exhaust systems ranging from 5hp mini bikes to 4500HP+ twin turbo shoot out cars for close to 15 years. There are "extremes" in any application that tend to be the EXCEPTION and not the rule. Most headers / exhaust systems that experience cracks or fatigue are the result of bad welds, insufficient material, and or a combination of both in a stressed or structural application. i.e. various exhaust components are being used in a structural manner and not properly speced.

There is some validity to the advantages to coating the pipes in that Ceramic Coating functions as both a thermal barrier and also dissipates heat from its surface. In that the Spyder is a relatively mild application i.e. normally aspirated, open air and seemingly constructed from SS, you have very little to worry about. Keep in mind if these pipes are in fact SS, that is the primary source of your thermal issues. SS is great for thermal shock and a strong substrate for exhaust components but because it is denser than mild steel it keeps much of it heat on its surface much like a heat sink and it takes longer to dissipate if not aided by any coatings.

You may be right about the stainless but

Examine these actual test numbers:

• Mild Steel (1010) uncoated header exposed to continuous 1200º F. in normal air will have a weight loss percentage of roughly 25% with only 10 hours use at this temperature.
• Stainless Steel (410) uncoated header will have roughly 8% weight loss in the same 10 hour period.
• A coated mild steel header will have NO weight loss at temperatures up to 1200º F. In fact it will actually gain a bit of weight! Between 1300º F and 1600º F the coating will begin to show signs of mud cracking or like the look of lacquer checking. However, limited diffusion takes place between the coating and the substrate, producing a very thin film of iron aluminide, which continues to inhibit oxidation

So there is more benefit to coating SS than running naked