Startron & ethanol fuel

[taxmyzer]

Started using Startron bike seems to be running smoother helps stabilize ethanol fuels. StarTron enzymatic fuel treatment reduces emissions, prevents fuel oxidation, and stabilizes fuel chemistry for at least 1 year. StarTron instantly cures jelling caused by cold weather and water in ethanol blended fuels. Is anyone using this in their bike?

[murphybrown]

Started using when I had about 8k on ...it definitely increased my mileage....haven't a clue if it helps the engine...but I know that ethanol DOES NOT...so until further notice I will continue to add....

[pwm]

Been using in all my toys since the very first fill up.

[jcthorne]

Use Top Tier fuel and you will not need those snake oil potions. I highly recommend Chevron / Texaco with Techron (same fuel either way). There is a difference. And I work for a different oil company..... My secondary choices are Shell and Conoco / Phillips which are also Top Tier rated.

[boborgera]

Started using Startron bike seems to be running smoother helps stabilize ethanol fuels. StarTron enzymatic fuel treatment reduces emissions, prevents fuel oxidation, and stabilizes fuel chemistry for at least 1 year. StarTron instantly cures jelling caused by cold weather and water in ethanol blended fuels. Is anyone using this in their bike?

Sounds like you been reading the label on the bottle...
The only time i use a fuel additive is when i store gas for my generators.

[Chupaca]

if it does any good..as mentioned above I use top tier fuels and once in a while run some sea foam thru..!!

[Pandy]

This could be almost as much fun as an oil thread.

[BajaRon]

This could be almost as much fun as an oil thread.

Could very well be!

[OldCowboy]

Use Top Tier fuel and you will not need those snake oil potions. I highly recommend Chevron / Texaco with Techron (same fuel either way). There is a difference. And I work for a different oil company..... My secondary choices are Shell and Conoco / Phillips which are also Top Tier rated.

Additional Top Tier gasolines can be found here.

[TexAmRider]

Use Top Tier fuel and you will not need those snake oil potions. I highly recommend Chevron / Texaco with Techron (same fuel either way). There is a difference. And I work for a different oil company..... My secondary choices are Shell and Conoco / Phillips which are also Top Tier rated.

Hey, I resemble that remark. ALON fuels with a Chevron made additive, at least thats what the MSDS says. All fuels still have ethanol as mandated at 10%, and looks as though the blend will increase. As far as I can tell the stuff has the same effects in all engines. Water in fuel is water in fuel and it does reduce your mileage. Many fuels with the better additives help reduce those effects, but a good treatment does wonders to keep them cleaner and gunk free.

[BajaRon]

Hey, I resemble that remark. ALON fuels with a Chevron made additive, at least thats what the MSDS says. All fuels still have ethanol as mandated at 10%, and looks as though the blend will increase. As far as I can tell the stuff has the same effects in all engines. Water in fuel is water in fuel and it does reduce your mileage. Many fuels with the better additives help reduce those effects, but a good treatment does wonders to keep them cleaner and gunk free.

Not all gasoline has ethanol, and even those that do don't necessarily have 10%. That is why the pump will usually say something like 'Up to 10% Ethanol'.

The Federal government subsidies ethanol fuel with tax dollars. The greater the percentage of ethanol, the greater the subsidy. So in reality, ethanol fuel costs more than straight gasoline (even without considering that you need 10% more ethanol fuel to go the same distance). You're just paying the additional amount for the ethanol fuel through the back door.

Then there are the Federal subsidies for farmers to grow the corn in the first place. Almost 3 billion dollars in 2012 just for corn.

Ethanol fuel is much more expensive than we realize.

[MikeinGA]

Hey, I resemble that remark. ALON fuels with a Chevron made additive, at least thats what the MSDS says. All fuels still have ethanol as mandated at 10%, and looks as though the blend will increase. As far as I can tell the stuff has the same effects in all engines. Water in fuel is water in fuel and it does reduce your mileage. Many fuels with the better additives help reduce those effects, but a good treatment does wonders to keep them cleaner and gunk free.

I use Marine Sta-Bil in the hot summer 1/2 oz. per 5 gal. and in the winter 1/4 per 5 gal. then Sea Foam for storage and add to the first fill up in the spring. I been doing this for years in all gas run equipment and vehicles that uses 10% ethanol gas mix.

Mike

[Guzzi]

After 40 years in the fuel systems business, manufacturing and distributing carburetor parts and kits, I can say that I have never seen a definative independant analysis of any aftermarket fuel additive that stands up to its claims. I can tell you that a standard bottle of, say, STARTRON costs approx $8 for 8oz of product. 1 Gal = 128 fluid ounces, so your STARTRON costs you $128 a gallon! Ethanol gasoline is hydrascopic, and as such, absorbs water especially if you let it set for more than 3 months. Using a product like startron is usually a waste of money, unless your bike sets, and then its' effect is questionable. Most additives are not cost effective, and in most instances, even if you think they work, what scientific basis do you have to make sure. John D Rockefeller started marketing Standard Oil "White Crown" lead free ethanol blended gas in 1925, and was sold up thru the breakup of Standard Oil in the 1960's. millions of American cars and motorcycles ran just fine on this Standard Oil "white gas" fuel and without using additives. Find me a major vehicle manufacturer that recommends directly in their owners manual the use of additives in the gas. JHMO Guzzi

[r1100rider]

Started using Startron bike seems to be running smoother helps stabilize ethanol fuels. StarTron enzymatic fuel treatment reduces emissions, prevents fuel oxidation, and stabilizes fuel chemistry for at least 1 year. StarTron instantly cures jelling caused by cold weather and water in ethanol blended fuels. Is anyone using this in their bike?

Everyone can call it snake oil if they want but it seems to work and clean up system the diesel formula is the same but twice as concentrated and only a buck more use half as much it only takes a cap full for 5 gal so the $128 a gallon doesn't hold true almost anyone that has used it is a believer the best mileage I ever saw was with it and real gas 40 mpg in a stock rs must have been riding easy that day but both spyders did the same good idea to use something at the end of season each ride could be the last for several months with the whether in the northwest anyway

[Bob Denman]

Use it if it makes you feel better...
Don't lose any sleep over it if you don't...

[viperryder]

Our lead technician has mentioned that some of the additives do not go well with plastic parts. Some of the gas line parts are plastic and will this additive cause any problems with these parts?

[boborgera]

Our lead technician has mentioned that some of the additives do not go well with plastic parts. Some of the gas line parts are plastic and will this additive cause any problems with these parts?

No if used in the recommended doses,
Actually ethanol is much as they say in Brooklyn,
Worst'er . Thats why theres a fight to stop the 15% Ethanol blend...

[BajaRon]

Everyone can call it snake oil if they want but it seems to work and clean up system the diesel formula is the same but twice as concentrated and only a buck more use half as much it only takes a cap full for 5 gal so the $128 a gallon doesn't hold true almost anyone that has used it is a believer the best mileage I ever saw was with it and real gas 40 mpg in a stock rs must have been riding easy that day but both spyders did the same good idea to use something at the end of season each ride could be the last for several months with the whether in the northwest anyway

Didn't mean to ruffle feathers. Just presenting the opinion of many, not necessarily my own. Most additives, fix-it, seal-it, make it better products that I've tried made no describable difference and some made things worse. But I have used a few 'Snake Oils' that I think did a very good job. Those I continue to use.

Each to his own. Use what you will and reap the benefits or suffer the consequences, whichever applies.

[OldCowboy]

After 40 years in the fuel systems business, manufacturing and distributing carburetor parts and kits, I can say that I have never seen a definative independant analysis of any aftermarket fuel additive that stands up to its claims. I can tell you that a standard bottle of, say, STARTRON costs approx $8 for 8oz of product. 1 Gal = 128 fluid ounces, so your STARTRON costs you $128 a gallon! Ethanol gasoline is hydrascopic, and as such, absorbs water especially if you let it set for more than 3 months. Using a product like startron is usually a waste of money, unless your bike sets, and then its' effect is questionable. Most additives are not cost effective, and in most instances, even if you think they work, what scientific basis do you have to make sure.[snip]

Absolutely! In medicine, it's called the 'placebo effect.' When you spend your hard earned money on something, you're willing to believe it works. Otherwise, you're a chump and have had one pulled over on you. The only reason STARTRON doesn't get nailed for false advertising is because no one has spent the money necessary to scientifically investigate their claims. It's kinda like the guy who switches from premium w/ 10% ethanol to premium without ethanol and claims the mileage in his went up by 4-5 MPG. That's physically impossible. 10% ethanol fuel has about 4% less energy than 0% ethanol fuel. So, if you are getting 30 MPG on 10% ethanol, then the most you'll get out of 0% ethanol gas is 31.2 MPG (30 x 1.04).

[Tango]

All this math is giving me a headache. Tom

[Bob Denman]

math.jpg

[Dan_Ashley]

Use Top Tier fuel and you will not need those snake oil potions. I highly recommend Chevron / Texaco with Techron (same fuel either way). There is a difference. And I work for a different oil company..... My secondary choices are Shell and Conoco / Phillips which are also Top Tier rated.

I know very little on this topic, but I have a hearsay type of observation. This is really just a long question.

In 1978 my wife (who I divorced soon after--so she is now my ex)...well she was a truck driver--she drove gas tankers for delivery of liquid fuels to retail gas stations. She drove for a big company, which was not owned by one of the oil companies. Some days she drove with Shell painted on the truck, some days Texaco, or Chevron. (Or so she said).

She said that regardless where the gas ended up, it all came out of the same pipe at the refinery.

If she was truthful, then my question is: what is the difference between top tier gas and the other stuff? Wouldn't gas just be gas?

[quickster47]

Dan I think the difference is in the additives used by the various companies.

Carl

[Dan_Ashley]

Dan I think the difference is in the additives used by the various companies.

Carl

oh...then I wonder what those additives are, what the do, and if they are sold in adequate concentration to do those things.

[BajaRon]

Absolutely! In medicine, it's called the 'placebo effect.' When you spend your hard earned money on something, you're willing to believe it works. Otherwise, you're a chump and have had one pulled over on you. The only reason STARTRON doesn't get nailed for false advertising is because no one has spent the money necessary to scientifically investigate their claims. It's kinda like the guy who switches from premium w/ 10% ethanol to premium without ethanol and claims the mileage in his went up by 4-5 MPG. That's physically impossible. 10% ethanol fuel has about 4% less energy than 0% ethanol fuel. So, if you are getting 30 MPG on 10% ethanol, then the most you'll get out of 0% ethanol gas is 31.2 MPG (30 x 1.04).

It is true that 'Dry' E10 blended fuel provides about 3-4% less energy than gasoline. In a perfect world this would translate to a less than 5% fuel mileage difference. The trouble is, ethanol is a water magnet. Typically, ethanol blended fuel will have a moisture content that further degrades energy availability, especially in high humidity climates (or anytime a water source is available). This means it is very possible to experience as much as a 10% difference in actual mileage between E10 and straight gasoline fuels.

I know very little on this topic, but I have a hearsay type of observation. This is really just a long question.

In 1978 my wife (who I divorced soon after--so she is now my ex)...well she was a truck driver--she drove gas tankers for delivery of liquid fuels to retail gas stations. She drove for a big company, which was not owned by one of the oil companies. Some days she drove with Shell painted on the truck, some days Texaco, or Chevron. (Or so she said).

She said that regardless where the gas ended up, it all came out of the same pipe at the refinery.

If she was truthful, then my question is: what is the difference between top tier gas and the other stuff? Wouldn't gas just be gas?

She is correct, ex or not, right is right. However, just because it comes out of the same pipe doesn't mean it's the same fuel. Diesel and all kinds of fuel products also come out of the same pipe.

Go to a grainery. Everything may come out of the same chute, but it's definitely not all the same stuff.

What makes us suspicious is that here we are dealing with a liquid. And that does make it more difficult.

Here (in a simplistic way) is what happens with fuel in a pipeline scenario (like the LA to San Diego pipeline which terminates at a tank farm near Charger's stadium). A valve to the main line is opened at the refinery in LA and a Shell fuel product is pumped in. A marker is also inserted at the front of this flow. When that marker arrives at Point B it is recognized, the valve to the Texaco container closes and the valve to the Shell container opens. There may be a bit of mixing with the previous product in transport, but it is surprisingly small, and they have ways of dealing with this that does not degrade or alter the product.

The same happens for each grade of Shell fuel. Most of the time branded additives (like Techron) and ethanol are added to fuel when dispensed into the tanker truck before being transported to the final distribution point (your gas station).

My brother-in-law worked as a corporate manager for Conoco/Phillips for many years. I had the same questions you did about 1 pipe, many fuels.

Believe me, they have it down to a science.