Helmets

[Dan_Ashley]

It really is a simple solution. I wish they'd do the same for folks who don't wear seat belts. I don't mind those that are killed because they didn't wear their seat belt. It's their funeral and Darwin working as designed. What I don't like are those who don't wear seat belts and survive, although with serious injuries. Around here they usually don't have insurance, as a general rule. Which means those of us who do have insurance pay for their treatment. It's not at all unusual to see a jar at the register requesting donations for someone who chose not to buy insurance and now has a huge hospital bill. I don't feel sorry for them and I don't put money in those jars.

....but then somebody would sue claiming that their personal anger which causes them to refuse to take safety seriously were a result of a pre-existing psychiatric condition. So, to make it work, the idea would have to become part of the health insurance law.

I agree that people who refuse to take their safety seriously would lie to get other people to pay their bills, as Bob said above.

But the big issue for me is to just get those who would take care, to actually do so. I assume that some do not because they don't know the implications. That is why I argue so hard for facts and critical thinking when one of the proponents of not being prepared speaks up. I know those morons can't be helped, but I am fearful they will convince someone else to be equally careless.

Helmets actually reduce fatalities 41%
white helmets seem to reduce it an additional 24%
the average speed of motorcycle crashes in the US is 29 MPH
86% of motorcycle wrecks occur at less than 31 MPH
So, the arguement that helmets won't help in high speed wrecks ignores most of the facts.
Injuries to toes, feet, and ankles account for 39% of motorcycle injuries.
Wearing boots reduces this by 93% for basic armoured boots...by 53% for hiking boots.
v. So, the arguement against wearing boots is equally dumb.

I won't go sky diving without a backup chute.
I wear eye goggles when working in my wood-shop.
I wear ear protection on the pistol range.
I wear a helmet, boots, and gloves when riding. It saved my life once. I hope there is not a second time.

[Bob Ledford]

Back in my military days You wore a helmet, gloves and a vest. The regulation so stated that if you wrecked while riding a motorcycle without then the medical bill if so deemed by your command chain.

Our supportting medical activity was Naval Air Station Jacksonville. The Base Senior Master Chief was also the Base Safety NCO and a Gold Winger and a MSF instructor so getting a safety course was easy but you did not ride on his base without a full rig.. I have been wearing a helmet since 1955 when I was 14 Now it is just like clean underwear never leave home without it like your momma always said wear clean drawers in case you have an accident. Never figured out quite what she meant????

[Bob Denman]

I have been wearing a helmet since 1955 when I was 14 Now it is just like clean underwear never leave home without it like your momma always said wear clean drawers in case you have an accident. Never figured out quite what she meant????

They're sure not going to be clean once you had that accident!

[CurtG]

[QUOTE=Dan_Ashley;695098]

I still don't get the white helmet thing after the accident occurs, or do white helmets ruduce the number of accidents for[\QUOTE]

White helmets don't help AFTER the crash, they only help prevent multi-vehicle crashes. This is apparently due to increased visibility. 38% of motorcycle crashes are multi-vehicle crashes occuring at intersections. (Intersection being the junction of at least two roadways, or the junction of a roadway and a driveway)

A reduction of 63% in these type of crashes was observed in New Zealand, with similar results reported from a European study. This equates to an overall reduction in motorcycle fatalities of 24%.

The emerging theory of this measued phenomena is increased visibility. So far, I've not found anyone who has been able to construct an experiment, or a set of measurements, to prove or disprove this theory--and I have no idea how to do it myself.

An alternate theory has to do with driver's mis-perception of motorcyclists being bicyclists, and hence, traveling slower than they actually are traveling. This theory has also not been tested. A counter-point to this theory is the bicyclist crash data, for white vs non-white helmets. For bicyclists, it does not matter what color the helmet is. Also, bicyclists don't usually drive with headlights on in the daytme.

A third theory states that a motorcyclists head bobbles around as the motorcyclist is driving. This movement, that is of a bright white head, causes the human mind to perceive the oncomming motorcyclist. This theory has also not been tested. It seems more plausible than the bicyclist-based theory, though.

In short, we don't know why white helmeted riders have a 24% lower fatality rate. But we know they do have a significantly lower fatality rate.

We can describe why a lot of seemingly silly measurements reflect the real world. For example, did you know that kids with bigger feet consistently perform better on IQ tests? The reason is IQ tests are administered at usually only one time a school year, and all the kids are not the same age. But in the case of lower fatalities and white helmets, we don't know why. We only have theories.

Thanks, Dan, I sort of suspected that it was the case with improved visibility. I wonder if at the time of the studies the Hiviz Yellow helmets were available and if they are either better or worse in this category. I bought my newest helmet in Hiviz yellow figuring it would help.

Ride and ride safe,
Curt

[Dan_Ashley]

[QUOTE=CurtG;695974]

Thanks, Dan, I sort of suspected that it was the case with improved visibility. I wonder if at the time of the studies the Hiviz Yellow helmets were available and if they are either better or worse in this category. I bought my newest helmet in Hiviz yellow figuring it would help.

Ride and ride safe,
Curt

Remember: the better of the two studies was in New Zealand and took about ten years to complete. The other was European--primarily Germany and France. Motorcycling in those places may have different risk factors than here in the US. But with a 24% fatality reduction, I don't care if the results are overstated for American motorcyclists by a factor of ten--I am giving up my black helmet. As a fashion statement, well...I can't see it when I'm wearing it anyway.

I know the most easily seen color is white, the most easily noticed colors are luminescent orange, yellow and green in that order. The New Zealand study compared white with green, yellow and orange, as well as other colors. The New Zealand study did not include any of the luminescent colors. It did compare reflective stripes and found them to be helpful only at night. I seldom ride at night.

There have been absolutely no US based studies on this. So, what I did was to start watching motorcyclists when I'm in my cage. My non-scientific assessment seemed to support the New Zealand study. Someday, watch a sprt bike from the back. All you really see is a big black tire and a helmet! I noticed a cruiser the other day that had a white shirt and a black helmet. That seemed to be more noticible to me than all black, but not as much as a black shirt and a white helmet. So, start looking at other bikers when you are in your cage, and decide what you think.

I sat down with one of my engineering professor buddies at the university about six months ago, and discussed this over lunch. This guy is a PhD in human factors engineering. He said in the daytime he didn't think there would be much difference between white and the luminescent colors. However, he stated at night white is best--especially refective white.

So, I bought a white one. My old one was flat black. If I had originally owned a luminescent one, I probably would have waited until I normally would have bought a new one. I like to replace my helmet every three years or so. They just get so beat-up--inside and out. I ride about 1,500 miles a month, so I guess that makes sense.

oh, by the way, my wife has a luminescent pink one! She said "No!" To white. (See the exclamation point?)

[Dubld]

I'm so safe, I wore my helmet when washing my Spyder today. Hey, I could slip and hit my head.

[Dan_Ashley]

I'm so safe, I wore my helmet when washing my Spyder today. Hey, I could slip and hit my head.

LOL--just remember to take it off when you bathe.

[rick_w]

Since we sell helmets we get statistics sent to us from different sources all of the time. Some might really surprise you.
We do not try to push anything on anyone since there are people with extreme feelings on both sides of wearing helmets.

I will say that we always wear helmets ourselves. I had a bad accident 11 years ago, totaled a Honda Valkyrie and Teresa saw it all from right behind me on her bike. I would not be alive if I had not been wearing a helmet.
I was not that effected myself, but she did not even get back on her bike for a month after seeing it happen.

Take a look at the bottom of my Valkyrie page for the description. You really never know when something can happen. I have ridden a couple hundred thousand miles on the road, it is not if it will ever happen it is when. Be ready.
http://www.valueaccessories.net/Valkyrie/Valkyrie.htm

Rick
Value-Accessories

[Dan_Ashley]

Since we sell helmets we get statistics sent to us from different sources all of the time. Some might really surprise you.
We do not try to push anything on anyone since there are people with extreme feelings on both sides of wearing helmets.

I will say that we always wear helmets ourselves. I had a bad accident 11 years ago, totaled a Honda Valkyrie and Teresa saw it all from right behind me on her bike. I would not be alive if I had not been wearing a helmet.
I was not that effected myself, but she did not even get back on her bike for a month after seeing it happen.

Take a look at the bottom of my Valkyrie page for the description. You really never know when something can happen. I have ridden a couple hundred thousand miles on the road, it is not if it will ever happen it is when. Be ready.
http://www.valueaccessories.net/Valkyrie/Valkyrie.htm

Rick
Value-Accessories

This is so important, I copied it here for all to see: from his web page

"The pictures below are of my Honda Valkyrie that I had for 3 years and was totaled on July 26th 2002. I purchased another Valkyrie Tourer (all black, shown above) and built it even better then the last one. Below is a short description of what happened in the accident. I hope that at least one person will read this and decides to wear safety equipment.
Teresa and I were riding to Zanesville Ohio from the Honda Homecoming. We were going down a slight hill (on Ohio route 37) and around a slight right curve. There was brush and trees very close to the road. In an instant there was a deer in the road in front of me. I never had time to come off the throttle and hit it pretty much head on. The deer was quite large about 180 lbs or so. The impact is quite sever hitting something that large going 55 mph. The bike went down and I got away from the bike pretty clean. I skidded about 75 feet head first on my back. I flipped a couple of times when I hit dryer pavement. The bike skidded 150 feet and bounced around pretty good a few times before stopping. The deer was dead instantly.
I had an HJC 3/4 Helmet on. There were gouges all the way from the top front to the back bottom left on the helmet. The helmet was ground into the pavement. I also had a Joe Rocket Phoenix jacket on. I had virtually no scratches on my arms or back. The padding in the jacket took a lot of the impact. The fingerless leather gloves might not have been a good idea. I had thick jeans on which were ripped in a couple of places. Missing only a little skin on my legs. Boots also only got a little messed up. I was very sore, but not in the hospital or worse. So, is it worth wearing safety equipment? Yes, the outcome would have been way different.
Teresa was only 2 seconds behind me on her Honda 1100 Sabre. I am very lucky that she is an experienced rider. It was difficult to miss everything in the road while trying to stop. I think that she was way more upset then me. Another good reason to take motorcycle safety courses and always make sure that you are capable of handling the bike in extreme conditions. She did ride the Sabre back to Delaware, Ohio when the Valkyrie was being towed. Our Custom Valkyrie had a huge amount of damage and was totaled, but it was replaced. You always think and hope that it won't happen to you. Something to keep in mind once in a while."

[WarrenGH]

A Harley owner friend of mine who was hit from behind and wound up on the hood of the car that hit him, said that had he been wearing a helmet at the time he would have suffered a broken neck. The paramedics I spoke to at the hospital flat out disagreed with him and said had my friend been wearing a helmet he might have sustained a few bumps and a damaged helmet, but not the degree of damage that required over 300 stitches to close the gashes in his scalp, face, and neck. So why did a guy, who when we both starting riding choose to stop wearing a helmet, because of the peer pressure exerted on him by his riding buddies. That same group, all Harley owners, also had no problem pulling into a bar and drinking one alcoholic drink after the other and then go for a ride. When I refused to drink and drive I was told to "Man Up". Needless to say, he went his way and I went mine.

[Bob Denman]

Never argue with idiots; they'll beat you with their experience at it!

[Dubld]

My neighbor across the street is hardcore HD. The only thing I see him wear when he rides is a denim jacket with his patches and a bandana (he also wears jeans in case you were wondering). Now I see he has a new leather vest. I have never seen him wear a helmet, not even a half helmet. I guess his bandana and patches are supposed to protect him. I don't care if he does look down on me for what I ride and for wearing a helmet. I'm going to live to see my family and grow old.

[Dan_Ashley]

A Harley owner friend of mine who was hit from behind and wound up on the hood of the car that hit him, said that had he been wearing a helmet at the time he would have suffered a broken neck. The paramedics I spoke to at the hospital flat out disagreed with him and said had my friend been wearing a helmet he might have sustained a few bumps and a damaged helmet, but not the degree of damage that required over 300 stitches to close the gashes in his scalp, face, and neck. So why did a guy, who when we both starting riding choose to stop wearing a helmet, because of the peer pressure exerted on him by his riding buddies. That same group, all Harley owners, also had no problem pulling into a bar and drinking one alcoholic drink after the other and then go for a ride. When I refused to drink and drive I was told to "Man Up". Needless to say, he went his way and I went mine.

Oh wow...man-o-man...no helmet, booze...bad attitude about authority...and complete denial even after he crashes....this is the kind of rider that drives the fatality statistics UPWARD. I'll bet a month's pension payment that he expected his insurance company to pay his medical bills, and his employer to pay for his lost work time. All of this drives insurance costs upward for all of us, while driving profitibility for our employers downward.

I am proud of you for parting company with this person (not a "man", but a "person")

[3 Wheel Addict]

Indiana don't even require eye protection! I see riders all the time without eye protection over there from scooters all the way up to tour bikes. I'm like the original poster, half helmet in summer and full in cooler weather and ALWAYS eye protection! I took a big bug in the eye a few years back and it actually broke the lens in a pair of safety glasses, that scared me. Also took a falling walnut in the chest once and thought I had been shot, that hurt so bad I had to stop to cry!!

[CurtG]

Linda survuved her accident because she had her helmet on (Vega Summit II). Doctor who saw her bruises said it was a good thing. I'll likely not wear my half helmet again and right now wonder about my 3/4. I like my Bell Revolver and when I go out that's what I wear, just wish it were lighter. My only real complaint.

I too don't get no eye protection, but then I was in a business where eye protection was mandatory in most situation and it's become second nature to me.

Ride and ride safe,

[finless]

Even though it is the law here in Ca. I personally would not ever ride without gear on. Too many freakin crazy people on the road. Until the sypder came out, this kept me from having a motorcycle. I have had 3 friends die of head injuries on motor cycles BEFORE the Ca. helmet law. All of the accidents happened in a intersection with someone turning left in front of them. All 3 of them went over the handlebars and hit thier head killing them instantly.

Bob

[Dan_Ashley]

[Bob Denman]

I don't know if I needed that...

[golfsferr]

Is there a way to prevent "Helmet Hair" if you wear a helmet?

[Bob Denman]

Yup! don't wear hair!
Me and Farran H.jpg

[Dan_Ashley]

I don't know if I needed that...

i agree. However, I got a couple of PMs from people who said they don't understand how statistics relates to them on a personal level. For those people, I hope this puts a human face on the statistics.

[Bob Denman]

It's actually pretty simple...
slamming your face against the roadway at speed isn't going to hurt the road at all!
So relax; you won't get bills for damaging it!

[Dan_Ashley]

It's actually pretty simple...
slamming your face against the roadway at speed isn't going to hurt the road at all!
So relax; you won't get bills for damaging it!

(Chuckle--heh)

[golfsferr]

Yup! don't wear hair!
Me and Farran H.jpg

Yea maybe you are on to something, but that young lady standing next to you I presume, looks pretty good with hair! Maybe I'll just grease mine back so it won't look to much different with helmet off or on.

[soepy]

if you are wearing a helmet when you fly off your bike, most insurances will cover the cost of your helmet, some make using a helmet that has been in a crash a no no, I wish they could make a helmet that was certified for motorcycles, that was as comfortable as my skiing helmet. I have an aria and a scorpion and a Nolan, none of them fit perfect, I have yet to try on a helmet that made me say "Oh man this fits perfect" when I do find one I will be a happy man. by the way I all ways wear a helmet, do not want to, just smart enough to. if you ride a motorcycle you will get in a crash sooner or later. the helmet will help you ride again. just my nickels worth.

Try a Shoei Must comfortable helmet I ever bought. Well worth the price.