Helmets

[Dubld]

I was at my dealer on Saturday to get my recall done on my RT-S. This dealer is primarily HD but they also have Can-Am and Suzuki. They were having a memorial ride for a club member. It was all HD and 1 Ninja. I noticed that not one single HD rider was wearing a helmet. It has been my experience that when I see someone on a HD, they are not wearing a helmet. Could someone please explain, is it an unwritten rule that if you ride a HD, you can't wear a helmet? I myself wear a half helmet when it's warmer and a full helmet with face shield when it's cooler. For just riding around town, I usually don't wear a helmet. My wife always wears a helmet, no matter where we're going. I'm not judging anyone. I just want to get some different viewpoints and opinions. Thank you.

[Bob Denman]

Well... what are your brains worth to you? HelmetImpactChart_zpse4dbd104.jpg

[ARtraveler]

Helmets are a personal thing and one of our favorite hot button topics. There is something to be said about helmets and HD's--the lack of helmets seem to be a big thing there. That said, I know several HD riders that do wear helmets.

Helmets are legislated in some states, in other states, its your call.

I believe in ATGATT because you never know when fate is going to come knocking on your door. Its too late to put on gear if you actually need it.

Enough soap box. Ride safe.

[Dubld]

Well... what are your brains worth to you? HelmetImpactChart_zpse4dbd104.jpg

Thanks, I'd like to keep my brains, but that doesn't answer my HD question.

[bscrive]

This is not just a HD thing. When I go to states that don't require a helmet, I see riders of all kinds of bike not wearing one. Personally, I would wear one even if it wasn't mandatory in Ontario. I have seen what a small hit to the head can result in. My wife's co-workers husband fell off his atv doing 5mph and hit his head on the dirt and a week later he was dead.

[muonwhiz]

Got splatted by a bug today riding at 70 mph. Was I ever glad I was wearing my helmet!

[Dan_Ashley]

I am a statistician.
helmets reduce fatalities by a whopping 41%. They reduce injuries by nearly the same amount.
white helmets reduce fatalities by an additional 24%.

This means that a motorcyclist wearing a white helmet has about a 55% less chance of a fatality than one not wearing a helmet at all.

[bullant12]

I was at my dealer on Saturday to get my recall done on my RT-S. This dealer is primarily HD but they also have Can-Am and Suzuki. They were having a memorial ride for a club member. It was all HD and 1 Ninja. I noticed that not one single HD rider was wearing a helmet. It has been my experience that when I see someone on a HD, they are not wearing a helmet. Could someone please explain, is it an unwritten rule that if you ride a HD, you can't wear a helmet? I myself wear a half helmet when it's warmer and a full helmet with face shield when it's cooler. For just riding around town, I usually don't wear a helmet. My wife always wears a helmet, no matter where we're going. I'm not judging anyone. I just want to get some different viewpoints and opinions. Thank you.

Misconception alert!
All the HD riders I know wear helmets, and HD makes helmets as well...
Of course, most of them take them off when they cross a helmet law state, but some have common sense.

[Bob Denman]

Thanks, I'd like to keep my brains, but that doesn't answer my HD question.

I know that it didn't... but I didn't want to speak poorly of them as a group.

[Dan_Ashley]

Misconception alert!
All the HD riders I know wear helmets, and HD makes helmets as well...
Of course, most of them take them off when they cross a helmet law state, but some have common sense.

But some of them wear those non-DOT approved novelty helmets....you see them--they look like old WWII German helmets. Then to make it even worse they stick things like spikes on the helmet. I guess denial is not just a river in Egypt.

[Chupaca]

tradition dating way back when it was all Harley's and Indians and no one wore helmets. They were a tough bunch and could not be seen as weak. Now they do wear more leather than most, boots, chaps, vests, jackets, gloves etc. which is interesting because having good legs, feet, hands and arms is worthless if you have no mind to control them. I think it is still the image and pressure of those that are diehards on the issue...if nothing else I will always wear my helmet...jmho

[Jackspyder]

I owned 3 HDs prior to the Spyder. Whether it's a long trip or just to the grocery store, I've always worn a helmet when riding.

Some of my HD friends do not wear a helmet by choice since there's no helmet law in Illinois. Helmets are must haves for me.

[Dan McNally]

You just have to take a spill, once, get up, feeling foolish, but unhurt, other than a bruised ego, and then see the look in a friends face when he sees the dent in your helmet an inch deep . . . to become someone who always wear a helmet when you ride, even around the block, the rest of your life . . . I'm proof of that.

[fas2000]

white helmets reduce fatalities by an additional 24%.

Really is that true? what is the reasoning behind it? visibility? My helmet has an LED in it. wonder if that helps any.


drive safe everybody .


fas

[eagleeye299]

Amen to that. I still have an old Bell helmet hanging on my garage wall, with a big nasty gash out of it. I took a spill at about 10 mph hit the curb. Walked away without a scratch. Won't catch me riding without one ever. ATGATT!

[johnwinslow]

if you are wearing a helmet when you fly off your bike, most insurances will cover the cost of your helmet, some make using a helmet that has been in a crash a no no, I wish they could make a helmet that was certified for motorcycles, that was as comfortable as my skiing helmet. I have an aria and a scorpion and a Nolan, none of them fit perfect, I have yet to try on a helmet that made me say "Oh man this fits perfect" when I do find one I will be a happy man. by the way I all ways wear a helmet, do not want to, just smart enough to. if you ride a motorcycle you will get in a crash sooner or later. the helmet will help you ride again. just my nickels worth.

[Dan_Ashley]

Really is that true? what is the reasoning behind it? visibility? My helmet has an LED in it. wonder if that helps any.


drive safe everybody .


fas

Yes this is true. It was first studied in New Zealand in a ten year study of bike colors, clothing colors, and helmet colors. This was a very well done study (yes I did read it in its entirity). This study showed that clothing color or bike color did not matter in either crash or fatality statistics. Only helmet color mattered and white reflective helmets reduced fatalities by 24%.

Subsequently a similar study was conducted in Europe. This second study occurred in France and Germany primarily. There were a few Italian data points and a few from UK. But not enough data from outside of France and Germany to make a difference. This was just as well for the Italian data because the motorcycle driving laws do not provide credibility to any Italian based data.

I was consulting on the European study and found the study to be fairly credible. The study had a couple of problems. For one, it did not differentiate between "quality" helmets (for us that would be DOT approved) and low quality helmets. The European study showed between a 24% and a 33% fatality reduction for white helmets. Unfortunately, the investigators did not develop a rider assessment. As a result, they were unable to determine if the observed life-years saved were solely due to white helmets, or whether people who wore white helmets we just more safety minded. I spoke with them about this three or four times, but they claimed that they did not have funding for the additional analysis.

Consequently, I always use the lower number of 24% reduction.

Clearly there are differences between motorcycle driving in New Zealand or Europe and here. However, with a number as large as 24% I am doubtful whether an American based study would result in a significantly lower statistic. What I mean is, even if the statistic was off by 50% it would still be very significant, and should not be ignored.

I tried to develop numbers for trikes (3 wheel motorcycles). However there are too few 3 wheel motorcycle fatalities to be able to make any scientific statements. It is good that in 2011 there were only six deaths on 3 wheel motorcycles. However the lack of data points prevents any science-based statements regarding trikes or Spyders.

[LadyDi'sSpyder]

I was at my dealer on Saturday to get my recall done on my RT-S. This dealer is primarily HD but they also have Can-Am and Suzuki. They were having a memorial ride for a club member. It was all HD and 1 Ninja. I noticed that not one single HD rider was wearing a helmet. It has been my experience that when I see someone on a HD, they are not wearing a helmet. Could someone please explain, is it an unwritten rule that if you ride a HD, you can't wear a helmet? I myself wear a half helmet when it's warmer and a full helmet with face shield when it's cooler. For just riding around town, I usually don't wear a helmet. My wife always wears a helmet, no matter where we're going. I'm not judging anyone. I just want to get some different viewpoints and opinions. Thank you.

I wear a 1/2 helmet due to the heat in Fla, in this state, I believe it's about 50/50 with the HD riders. My Hubby has one and never goes without, but I see plenty without them.

[SteveMac]

I know that it didn't... but I didn't want to speak poorly of them as a group.

I am SOOOO proud of me. I was able to read this post and make no reply,,,,,oh, wait,,,,, doh!

[Magdave]

Got splatted by a bug today riding at 70 mph. Was I ever glad I was wearing my helmet!

#1 reason had one go up my sinus when I was young and it has never been the same it always plugs up. I also have tinnitus and need to keep what little hearing I have left so helmet for me. One saved my life by the way over the bars at 45mph when I ran off the road (stupidity) was knocked out for 45min and got a few scratches but my head survived,my head survived did I say my head survived. Not a funny story but the day I went to get my license I was practicing the course that was next to the main drag in town and a Harley came screaming down so I turned to look at it just as I did a car pulled out in front of him. I saw him do 3 somersaults and land on his head with no helmet. I knew some of his friends and they said he was never right "in the head" again. I was first on scene to give first aid and might have saved his life. I was on TV and at the end of the story as I walked away I was putting my helmet on and the reporter remarked " and he walked away WITH his helmet on.

[jerpinoy]

Helmet Helmet Helmet HD rider friends all wear helmet. All survived fatal accident except one coz he didn't strapped. Found his helmet 50 feet away from him. I never ride without fastening my helmet.

[Doktor]

I am a statistician.
helmets reduce fatalititestosteronehopping 41%. They redseverity juries by nearly the same amount.
white helmets reduce fatalities by an additional 24%.

This means that a motorcyclist wearing a white helmet has about a 55% less chance of a fatality than one not wearing a helmet at all.

While you are quoting stats, what stats show the years of riding experience? I don't always wear a helmet, in SC it is a personal choice, but I see these younger sports bike riders, full face helmets with video cameras on top of the helmet, I see them burning off their tires, slinging rubber hither and yon. Running their tach's up around 10 grand before hitting their shifter.
They NEED a helmet, and they NEED to fill it with brains, instead of testosterone! I've survived with and without a helmet, but never felt the need to videotape my ability to be stupid! I've got 55 years riding experience, from little scooters and minibikes, to dressers, Vespas, Hondas, Harleys, 2 strokers, even an old Indian. But I have always driven 'like they are out to get you.' Because they probably are. When a helmet becomes a substitute for common sense, I'll take common sense, when bravado is a substitute for thinking defensively, I'll think safely. Stats can be made to say whatever position the person formulating the statistics wants to say. I've worked emergency departments on 3 continents, and I've seen 2 motorcycle wrecks where their helmets saved their lives but sheared their spinal cords, their lives revolve around letting students learn how to insert a catheter into their bladder because they are totally paralyzed and can't pee on their own. In their case, they wished they hadn't had their lives saved, they hit to upper door edge of the car that "didn't see them in the road", thanks but no thanks! They were different accidents in different seasons.


Doc

[fas2000]

Yes this is true. It was first studied in New Zealand in a ten year study of bike colors, clothing colors, and helmet colors. This was a very well done study (yes I did read it in its entirity). This study showed that clothing color or bike color did not matter in either crash or fatality statistics. Only helmet color mattered and white reflective helmets reduced fatalities by 24%.

Subsequently a similar study was conducted in Europe. This second study occurred in France and Germany primarily. There were a few Italian data points and a few from UK. But not enough data from outside of France and Germany to make a difference. This was just as well for the Italian data because the motorcycle driving laws do not provide credibility to any Italian based data.

I was consulting on the European study and found the study to be fairly credible. The study had a couple of problems. For one, it did not differentiate between "quality" helmets (for us that would be DOT approved) and low quality helmets. The European study showed between a 24% and a 33% fatality reduction for white helmets. Unfortunately, the investigators did not develop a rider assessment. As a result, they were unable to determine if the observed life-years saved were solely due to white helmets, or whether people who wore white helmets we just more safety minded. I spoke with them about this three or four times, but they claimed that they did not have funding for the additional analysis.

Consequently, I always use the lower number of 24% reduction.

Clearly there are differences between motorcycle driving in New Zealand or Europe and here. However, with a number as large as 24% I am doubtful whether an American based study would result in a significantly lower statistic. What I mean is, even if the statistic was off by 50% it would still be very significant, and should not be ignored.

I tried to develop numbers for trikes (3 wheel motorcycles). However there are too few 3 wheel motorcycle fatalities to be able to make any scientific statements. It is good that in 2011 there were only six deaths on 3 wheel motorcycles. However the lack of data points prevents any science-based statements regarding trikes or Spyders.

Yes I remember your trike analysis I think just about a week back. And thank you for such a in depth and first hand explanation of these studies. I'm atgatt myself, but i will definitely consider white in my helmet more then before.

Fas


Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 4

[flaggerphil]

I live in Florida where there is no helmet law. Before that I lived in Missouri, where there IS a helmet law, but was just across the river from Illinois, where there is no helmet law.

As far as I can tell, the brand of bike really doesn't make that much difference. I see HD riders with and without helmets all the time...and I see other brands, including crotch rockets around here, where the riders aren't wearing helmets.

Personally, I wouldn't go out on ANY cycle of ANY type without a helmet on. I've had my life literally saved by wearing not just a helmet, but a GOOD helmet. That's why I continue to buy the best helmet I can afford. These days it's a Shoei RF-1100, though I've worn Arais and Simpsons in the past. I know if I hit something (or something hits me) hard enough a helmet isn't going to save me...but I wear it for all the OTHER times when it will.

I know wearing a helmet is a personal decision in many states, but I simply do not understand why someone would ride without one. I've heard tons of reasons, but, to me, it still comes down to whether I want to survive (or not become a vegetable) the accident I wouldn't survive if I didn't have one on. And, as someone else pointed out, I'd MUCH rather have a helmet on when that big honkin' bug cracks into my head at 70+mph!

Don't wanna wear gloves? Ok...you'll skin your hands up. Don't wanna wear long pants...ok, same with your legs. Short sleeves...same again again with your arms. No boots...broken ankle perhaps. No helmet...mmmmm. No thanks, I'll wear one.

Anyway, I've already had a good helmet save my life. Literally save my life. It's the reason I'm still here at the age of 62 and still riding. To me, that's reason enough.

Oh...I wear seat belts in my cage, too.

[Pirate looks at --]

You can die just driving around town. My brother has been riding for 40 years. He has had his share of spills, but the worst he ever had was a quick dash down the street to a parts store for one of his bikes. A VW wandered across the center divide and he was in some gravel and was unable to avoid a head on collision. He was launched off the wind shield of the VW straight into the air. His head hit the windshield he later hit the ground unconscious. Oh, I forgot to mention he was not wearing a Helmet........he maybe the luckiest helmetless rider in pre helmet law California. You don't know when it is going to happen. Wear the helmet all the time. I wear a full face Arai Defiant helmet with enough ventilation that I have a lot of wind in my face to stay cool even in 100 degree plus weather. There is no reason to not wear one. IMHO