Significant progress on talking to CAN Bus on Spyder

[NancysToy]

MPI-2 Diagnostic Cable is P/N 710000851
MPI-2 Interface Card is P/N 529036018

[NancysToy]

It could.
But I don't think that's the way it works.

Until somebody cracks the code, we will never know. I would expect that it may depend on the input. If the local module does the interpretation and generates a fault code, that could be sent throughout the system. The cluster or ECM could then register and store the codes...or they could just be stored locally for retreival by BUDS. I would not count out any possibility. If the fault codes are being broadcast, however, that will take a great deal more discrete bits than just the sensor and switch outputs....and a larger register, longer scan times.

[NancysToy]

So I wonder if they are stored locally or in a central register? I'm not sure how the OP would isolate the change of state of the input from the corresponding fault code by the hunt and peck method. Best bet might be to generate a signal from a range of data with an alarm threshold, like coolant temperature, which would result in a single fault code. The data ID would best be found first...then the fault isolated. If it is this complex with the 2008-2012 GS/RS, imagine the chase on the RT and the 2013s. I think I am going to join Bob on this one...my brain is starting to hurt! Give me an Amal Monoblock or a Stromberg 97 any time.

[Big Arm]

My head hurts

[NancysToy]

My head hurts

That's so you don't notice your butt hurting after all that riding!

[Bob Denman]

This is REALLY starting to sound like an awful lot of Math...
math.jpg

[qwed1]

Just wanted to let you know that I have access to Vector CANalyzer software at work. We use CAN on some of the devices we manufacture for the off-road industry. Does anyone know if BRP uses J1939 or CANopen protocols? Also, where is a good place to tap into the bus?

[Rd_Runner]

Just wanted to let you know that I have access to Vector CANalyzer software at work. We use CAN on some of the devices we manufacture for the off-road industry. Does anyone know if BRP uses J1939 or CANopen protocols? Also, where is a good place to tap into the bus?

The best location is to use the existing diagnostic port.
This port is located under a plastic access panel on the right side of the bike.
It is visible when you open the front trunk lid.

- Mike

[Roadster Renovations]

WOW!!
I have absolutely no idea what you just said (THAT happens all the time! ); but I have no doubt that it's going to find a useful home in here somewhere!

Bob, unless I am mistaken, he is talking about deciphering the BUDS language into CAN language. This would be huge in the fact that we could use a CAN defined protocol to do our own diagnostic instead of paying the license fee to BRP each year.

In short, this is taking Microsoft Word and creating a freeware program like Open Office.

[Bob Denman]

Having just seen all three of "The Librarian" movies recently: I thought that it might have had something to do with deciphering the Language of the Birds...

(Hey: it was a rainy Sunday!! )

[Navvet]

So while fun and entertaining, I don't think the current method is likely to get me / us to where we want. I want to know the data protocol well enough to have a basic "BUDS for the shade tree mechanic". I don't want to reprogram keys or change engine timing or override the nanny. I just want to have access to the basic diagnostics.

I have to give back the nice CAN to USB adapter on Monday to my former employer. And even if I had unlimited access to it, it is very time consuming process. I enjoy messing with it but I have to split my time between hobbies and customers who pay for my time and you can guess how that goes.

So I see a few options I wanted to throw out (short of giving up) and see what the board thinks.

Option A: Ask Bombardier nicely for the unrestricted portions of the protocol. Explain why we want it, why they should not hold owners hostage to $125/hr technicians for basic work, why it would increase the desirability of their brand among tech-heads, etc. I seriously doubt that will succeed but it is easy enough that I will probably try for the heck of it. Anybody here have an ear of someone inside BRP that they could put me in touch with? Otherwise I was just going to try their PR department.

Option B: I think there are certain states that require manufacturers to provide the public with access to the same proprietary diagnostic data that they provide to their dealers. I can't find the law right now but I think it was Massachusetts. So if someone is a lawyer or legally inclined to pursue that, we could possibly get the information to decode the protocol.

Option C: If you google the right key words, there are copies of the BUDS installer on the web. I have a copy of BUDS. The installer did not require me to agree to any license restrictions to install it. All of the information we want is encoded in those files. It might be possible to decompile those binaries and extract the information I want. I don't know the legality of what I propose, I certainly do not want to get myself into hot water. I am not a lawyer and am hesitant to do this.

Option D: If there were enough like minded and technically inclined people, I could probably build / find a fairly inexpensive microcontroller system to let others see the same raw data I am seeing. If those folks were willing to help with the cost of hardware development and contribute to software as well, maybe a lot of us working together could figure it out much faster than this lone geek. Plus it would allow RT, ST, and SE5 owners to play along.

I'm leaning toward trying A first and seeing where it leads. Any ideas? Any other input on the tasks?

Under option "D", Do any of the Bytes refer to a "Byte of Raspberry Pi" ???? (sorry, I couldn't stop myself from making that comment ....)

On a more serious note, I have not looked seriously into the can / usb adapters, but it seems to me that you should be able to get a serviceable unit for less than $50 off of e-bay .....

Just my 2 cents worth ....

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Three year old thread opened up by a newbie. But it sure would nice to know if SpyderMonkey ever made any real progress on this. I'm guessing not since he hasn't added any comments since Aug 2013.

[Roadster Renovations]

Dang, fell for the 'ole dead thread thing again.......

[fritzer1]

Dang, fell for the 'ole dead thread thing again.......

"Dead thread"? Kinda like a lot of the threads with questions that go unanswered, unfortunately.

This thread brings to mind the decades-old movie "2001, A Space Odyssey", with 'HAL', the computer brain of the spaceship.

I feel so helpless on board my beautiful F3T, as though I mustn't piss off my 'nanny' if I want to keep riding.

Power to all you geeks out there, who are attempting to decipher all this tech stuff, which is way over my head. Hopefully, someone will be able to skin this cat, so that I can quickly change my F3T 89t sprocket to 79t to effect touring gearing. Another forum member has already attempted this, but 'nanny' said "Oh noooo you don't!" He probably has already invested a couple grand on this project.

[thealexinator29]

Hey guys (yes, I know, yet another newcomer who warms up a years old Thread)!
Is there any chance you could provide your recorded can messages online? I am currently at the completion of a project which uses an engine out of an 2008 CAN AM Spyder (visit us on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theHybridKart/?fref=ts). However, it would be very helpful, if we could compare the CAN Messages of a working spyder and the messages our modules send. I think we can also help you at reverse engineering the Diagnostic interface of this vehicle.

Thank you very much,
Alexander G.

[youngers]

yeah I got interested in it not realizing old post , how is it going with the " tree of knowledge " spyder monkey ? { from just gleaning over your 1st session and follow up , it reads like a diagram fractured sentence , or apartment building high rise , using the numbers " like code 560 - D 1 " code would be the fault read out for the right front tire sensor failure , now while this would go off , I would have to also guess there would be a few more kicking in at same time , nanny would push a few more in , as the traction control tried too regroup , so with just what we have so far would be a good tool , for codes that are getting listed on the screen on the cycle { I would think } ... so are we looking at how too read the tree of knowledge , or looking at how too understand , how the codes fall into place , after all the codes have been activated ... like trying to figure out the D-N-A sequence ? think you were right on the tipping point of figuring out the binary language , just short of mapping out how the normal system reads under normal riding , down the road { using a hand held devise to capture the readings }

[pegasus1300]

So it looks like Spyder Monkey returned to the 2wheel world almost 2 years ago.

[youngers]

had to have been one hell of a reply from B R P to cause him to go 2 wheels , or he got into the wireing harness , figured a little more tweeking , and drove it around just before he blew it up !

[Jimbo04]

Been looking for software to do what the stealrships do and found this.

Have not ordered it yet but seriously thinking


http://www.diag-systems.com/shop/19/...it_4-tec_e-tec

[millerrdjr]

Been looking for software to do what the stealrships do and found this.

Have not ordered it yet but seriously thinking


http://www.diag-systems.com/shop/19/...it_4-tec_e-tec

I am interested also. It would be very helpful to hear your experience should you decide to make the purchase.

[stevencovert]

I am an electrical engineer for - well a long time. I have a garage full of ideas. I have always been interested if there was a cheap way to connect to the CANBUS to a laptop. And them maybe a $20 - $30 Raspberry Pi . The adaptor was $500? Looks like a CanBus to RS232 adaptor. Shouldn't be $500? I should look into reverse engineering it and making it for $50 I wonder how they got the source code with all the commands! By doing what you are or licensing it. Would be awesome to make preset configs for factory, performance, no nanny at all (heh heh).

Would be fun to build a display to watch the commands as you push buttons and do all the stuff. Makes me wonder how that place that does ECM flashes got it's code to start form.

I have built lots of interfaces in Visual Basic 6 (tells you how old I am) to many different systems. I love VB6 because I do not need all the .NET overhead and the added complexities of sub routine headers.

Steve

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I am an electrical engineer for - well a long time. I have a garage full of ideas. I have always been interested if there was a cheap way to connect to the CANBUS to a laptop. And them maybe a $20 - $30 Raspberry Pi . The adaptor was $500? Looks like a CanBus to RS232 adaptor. Shouldn't be $500? I should look into reverse engineering it and making it for $50 I wonder how they got the source code with all the commands! By doing what you are or licensing it. Would be awesome to make preset configs for factory, performance, no nanny at all (heh heh).

Would be fun to build a display to watch the commands as you push buttons and do all the stuff. Makes me wonder how that place that does ECM flashes got it's code to start form.

I have built lots of interfaces in Visual Basic 6 (tells you how old I am) to many different systems. I love VB6 because I do not need all the .NET overhead and the added complexities of sub routine headers.

Steve

I imagine the easy part is intercepting the CANbus messages. The hard part is figuring out what they mean. And then the communications that are needed by the laptop to talk to the various processors are probably never seen on the network except when communicating with them. Kind of like being in a dark room. You need to turn on the light so you can find the light switch, but how do you turn on the light until you find the switch?

[Bmmer]

Did you use the BRP cable # 710000851 or have you figured out the pinout for the cable?
Thanks Bmmer

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Did you use the BRP cable # 710000851 or have you figured out the pinout for the cable?
Thanks Bmmer

There's a couple of problems with your posting in this thread. First: It was started over 8 years ago and the last post was over 4 years ago, so the discussion in it has faded into history. I'm sure you won't get a meaningful response from anyone. And who are you addressing the question to? Readers aren't going to scan back through dozens of posts trying to figure it out. So, whenever you address a specific post you need to quote that post to give proper context to your question or comment.

[Bmmer]

Well you looked it up! All I am interested in is if anyone has the pinout for the 710000851 cable? If anyone has it I would appreciate someone posting it. Not all of us have been on this forum for the past eight years and if this is how people respond I won't be much longer.