"Catastrophic Engine Failure"

[3tracs]

Hello SpyderLover Family!

I just wanted to get some opinions from you about my recent turn of bad luck with my beloved Spyder; 3Tracs. (For the record, he is a 2008 Can Am Spyder GS SM5; currently with 13,400 mile on the odometer. I purchased him new on August 27th, 2009, with only 14 miles on the odo). BEST warranty expired 10 months ago.

On the afternoon of July 15th, 2013, I was on the interstate doing 60-62 mph (in a 65 zone) when I suddenly heard a loud ticking noise coming from the motor. I immediately rolled off the throttle when the bike lurched twice. I instantly pulled in the clutch and the engine died. I coasted to the side of the interstate, put the transmission in neutral and pressed the start button when all I heard was a high pitched whine of the starter and knew the engine was locked up tight.

Right away I had him towed to my local dealer, and was told that they would try to take a look within the week, as they were very backed up. I totally understood and said I would check back. They called me a day later and said that the preliminary exam showed "major front cylinder damage" and that they would have to look into it more.

The next week I stopped in and they had 3Tracs on the lift with the front cylinder off. Here are the pics, but I warn you, they are not for the faint of heart :
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/a...p?albumid=2991

So far, the technician believes that a valve dropped, striking the cylinder, and it broke it off creating the mess that you see.

I asked what kind of "failure" could cause such a thing and they told me that they'll have to dig into it deeper to find out for sure. I asked about a timing issue, and they don't think that is the case as there isn't any damage to the other valves. To me, this looks like a cut and dry valve failure of some sort. I had 700 mile to go to the manufacturer scheduled valve check per the new updated maintenance schedule from BRP, but of course that doesn't guarantee that it could of been diagnosed before hand... I know that metal doesn't break until it breaks. Meaning; any metal fatigue may not have even existed.

My dealer is in contact with BRP on how to proceed as they haven't come across anything like this with a Rotax motor before. I'm hoping to have some good news by the end of the week...

So, that is quite a lot to throw out there. What does everyone think? I'm remaining positive as I have a lot of faith in my dealer and with BRP. The Spyder is a great machine and this is hopefully my only "bump in the web".

Thanks for listening, (reading)!

[ChasingWind]

Ouch - that's so sad - those pics are brutal - defiantly a valve failure - very doubtful any valve adjustment could of forecasted a valve failure like that - very hard to see down that far unless you take the heads off. Good luck - hopefully everything will turn out ok and you will be back riding soon

[Chupaca]

they delve into it and find the source of the problem. Agree with the tech does not look like a timing problem but the would have to check the broken valve in depth..good luck..!!

[wyliec]

Just out of curiosity, you only opted for a 1 year BEST warranty? I only ask b/c someone on here had thought they only had a 1 year BEST warranty and when they checked they found it was a 3 year one.

[Flanker]

dude! What a crummy stroke of bad luck! The first pic I looked at was one of the middle ones; instantly said, "!, dropped valve!". I dropped an intake valve in a 454 Chevy motor, years ago. It was a used vehicle that had been abused (and allegedly repaired at the expense of the previous youthfully over exuberant owner), and I'd been abusing it myself (shame on me!). Quite the opposite of your experience with your Spyder. That is just freaky! I sincerely hope BRP throws something your way, good luck!

[Bob Denman]

dropped valve...
Bummer...

[Dan McNally]

I cringed, looking at those photos. I hope BRP steps up to the plate and fixes that . . .

[Sarge707]

Considering the "Very Positive " way you brought this up and I know for a fact having 14 BRP products over 25 years that a Good Tech and Service Manager who is on your side can Go a "Long Way!" to helping a person out it a situation like this!

I Hope they will come through for you!!

[dabreitbach]

Yup. Dropped valve. The pic of the head & valves show's the broken valves stem. Its straight and if it was a timing issue it would be bent from the valve hitting the piston. Its bad luck but thats a clean break. Its also very very rare.

[Bob Denman]

Considering the "Very Positive " way you brought this up and I know for a fact having 14 BRP products over 25 years that a Good Tech and Service Manager who is on your side can Go a "Long Way!" to helping a person out it a situation like this!

I Hope they will come through for you!!

Very well said!

[NancysToy]

Yup. Dropped valve. The pic of the head & valves show's the broken valves stem. Its straight and if it was a timing issue it would be bent from the valve hitting the piston. Its bad luck but thats a clean break. Its also very very rare.

[MrLooney]

It would be really nice to get a very close look at the ends of the broken valve. Both the stem and head to see if there is any signs of fatigue or cracking.

If the stem was cracked, it would show a dark area across part of the broken surface end and a shiny portion at the fresh new break. This would indicate to me metal fatigue and this problem started some time earlier back when there was still warrantee time on your Roadster. Only a matter of time before it finally expired.

The only way I know of that could have kept this from happening is to totally dismantle the engine and have each piece magnifluxed. Replace any questionable parts and reassemble.

These things happen from time to time. It could have been any one of 100's of parts that can fail. Let's just hope BRP will show a good faith and help at least in parts replacement or carry the full load for you since you are the first owner.

Good Luck

[Big Arm]

Sorry to hear about this........ that all goes well for you !!!!

[billrob71]

Dam that really sucks, hope BRP will step up and help ya out.

[MikeinGA]

That's low mileage for a valve to drop. What type of oil did you use? I like to keep track that due to the Can-am Spyders engines in the beginning used a synthetic oil. Rotax engines on the hole don't have valve problems. I looked at your pics and looked like you took care of it.

Mike

[DrewNJ]

Wow! I just mentioned this to a good riding friend who has a long history of being big into the Aprilia scene (pretty much same motor), and he said he has only ever heard of ONE previous failure with a dropped valve. It just doesn't happen....

He did mention to check the top of the stem at the retainer/cotter and see if everything is all intact...

[3tracs]

Just out of curiosity, you only opted for a 1 year BEST warranty? I only ask b/c someone on here had thought they only had a 1 year BEST warranty and when they checked they found it was a 3 year one.

When I bought it, it came with the 2 year plus 1 year of BEST. Unfortunately I relied on my previous luck with vehicles and thought that after 3 years I would be okay. In hind-site, I very much wish I would have bought the full 3 year BEST.

[3tracs]

Thank you all for your comments!

I really appreciate you all taking the time to read and comment. This is a great group of people and I'm proud to stand with you.

I'm confident that everything will work out in the end. I've been told by many folks who own, or have owned vehicles with Rotax motors, that they're shocked as this is something that just doesn't happen, and that the Rotax motors are very durable; thus the reason for them being used in our Spyders.

In the meantime, I'm just stepping back to let my dealer and BRP look into it. They currently only have one Can-Am tech as they are also a Harley Davidson dealer, and have been very busy, but my service adviser has been awesome in keeping me in the loop.

Stay tuned!

Thanks again!

Harry
3Tracs

[Farmbanker]

Just out of curiosity that looks like it is in Metro's shop in CR? They really went to bat for me and if it is Metro I'm sure they will go to bat for you....

[3tracs]

Just out of curiosity that looks like it is in Metro's shop in CR? They really went to bat for me and if it is Metro I'm sure they will go to bat for you....

Yep, he's at Metro Harley Davidson, Suzuki and Can-Am in Cedar Rapids, awaiting surgery . Hopefully they can get him back on three wheels soon.
I'll be checking in with them on Friday.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[Farmbanker]

You are in good hands. They are experienced with this sort of thing. They put a whole new engine in my RT after it blew up. Also a rare event but still very frustrating. I was just in there for service yesterday....

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 4

[3tracs]

Stopped to check on the patient today, and the problem is just what you all expected: a dropped valve.

They also found that the front piston rod is bent slightly, and a cog at the bottom had half its teeth sheared off (see the pics in the updated folder link below). I don't remember what that cog does, but it got beat up pretty bad.

2 New pictures: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/a...p?albumid=2991

It looks pretty grim... I believe in order to replace that rod, they would need to break down the entire engine, which sounds expensive. Thoughts?

They told me that BRP is very interested in what happened and my technician will be calling them and sending the pics for evaluation. I've been impressed with all the help Metro Can-Am has provided, and am also very grateful that BRP is in contact with them about my Spyder.

I'd appreciate all your thoughts onwhat to do next. I'm still hopeful for a good outcome and look forward to getting 3Tracs back on his tires!

Thanks for checking in and stay tuned!

[NancysToy]

Ouch again! It is beginning to look like the dropped valve was an end result, not the initial cause. For instance, skipped timing could make a piston contact a valve, which in turn breaks off the valve head. That usually bends the valve stem, but not always, especially with high compression engines when the valve is barely off its seat. The twisted connecting rod is a mystery...not a typical failure. At any rate, that engine ingested a lot of metal. I doubt you have seen the last of the hidden damage. At this point your best bet is a replacement engine. With a little luck and cooperation maybe BRP will provide the engine and you would just be responsible for the labor costs...which would be lower for replacement than for a rebuild. Of course the best scenario would be for them to pick up the entire tab, but that's a lot to hope for.

[Farmbanker]

I'm betting Metro is hoping BRP will help out with a different engine. When mine cratered and he saw all the metal pieces in there, the tech didnt feel comfortable that he would find every little piece. Fyi, my engine was diagnosed as timing chain failure. Dont think the valve broke off like yours did. Even if it cost a bit more, new engine would make me feel more confident.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 4

[wftb]

a valve can break off and drop at any time on any piston engine .they are usually flawed and pass unnoticed in the inspection process when the engine is first built . i have had 2 valves break and drop on me .you can get away with less than a total engine failure only if the stem breaks up high and the valve stays in its guide .then you will lose the piston and maybe the cylinder head but everything else is usually OK .this happened to a ford diesel i owned.my 343 v8 in a 1969 javelin was not so lucky .it broke down low at high revs and took out the con rod , crank , put a hole in the block and destroyed one cylinder head .when that valve stands up sideways , everything goes .