Internet Explorer 10 question...

[wyliec]

I know this has been asked; but, cannot find the answer. My "Enter" button with arrow for starting a new paragraph no longer works. I have a Dell PC. What do I need to do to correct this problem? One answer is to use my iMac. Are there any other answers?

[NancysToy]

Quirk related to IE10. Uninstall the update and go back to IE9. Disable automatic updates if they are enabled.

[wyliec]

Thanks, I'll give both a try.

[SteveMac]

You can also click on settings and enable compatibility mode for all websites. Alternatively, while in IE10, hit the F12 key and select the option to run in compatibility mode or emulate IE9.

Sorry I'm not at a PC right now so I don't remember the exact steps. But this will get you in the right area.

There are LOTS of compatibility issues with IE10.

Chrome is a good option for browsing, but unfortunately, for many business or online banking applications, IE is the standard. Hope that helps.

[spyder3]

"One answer is to use my iMac"

No doubt your best solution

[SteveMac]

"One answer is to use my iMac"

No doubt your best solution

Smart ***



Edit: John if you have any more iPads to sell, let me know! I may be in the market for a second one.

[pro10is]

Sorry for being flippant but the only answer to any Internet Explorer 10 question is "Chrome".

Chrome is a -far- better browser, it's faster, more secure, and has features that considerably enhance browsing. The switch from IE is relatively painless. Make the move, you'll be glad you did and you'll never look back.

[pro10is]

...Chrome is a good option for browsing, but unfortunately, for many business or online banking applications, IE is the standard. ...

Not anymore, IE is actually the worst of all the major browsers to incorporate the latest HTML, XHTML, Javascript, and AJAX web standards. So bad in fact that they are actually seriously holding back web development advancement. Microsoft is under the delusion that they can still dictate standards when in fact they have become hopelessly out of date. Apple and Google are now the industry leaders. Microsoft has become a has-been and is likely to remain so unless they can somehow reinvent themselves as they are desperately trying with Windows 8 (which most people dislike). Do not tie your wagon to their train any longer or you too will fall behind.

[SteveMac]

Not anymore, IE is actually the worst of all the major browsers to incorporate the latest HTML, XHTML, Javascript, and AJAX web standards. So bad in fact that they are actually seriously holding back web development advancement. Microsoft is under the delusion that they can still dictate standards when in fact they have become hopelessly out of date. Apple and Google are now the industry leaders. Microsoft has become a has-been and is likely to remain so unless they can somehow reinvent themselves as they are desperately trying with Windows 8 (which most people dislike). Do not tie your wagon to their train any longer or you too will fall behind.

I'm just stating what IS and not what should be. I wish it were different as I work with one of the largest online banking providers in the industry. I see compatibility problems every day with cash management applications not working correctly with Safari, Chrome, Firefox etc. no problems with IE9. Compatibility issues on a major scale with IE10.

[dshogman]

IS there a "home page" with Chrome like my iGoogle homepage that's going to disappear in November? Thanks.

[pro10is]

I'm just stating what IS and not what should be. I wish it were different as I work with one of the largest online banking providers in the industry. I see compatibility problems every day with cash management applications not working correctly with Safari, Chrome, Firefox etc. no problems with IE9. Compatibility issues on a major scale with IE10.

That's because whoever wrote the applications decided to use IE as the standard, which was a big mistake. I develop complex database driven web based applications. If I optimize them for IE then they'll work poorly for every other web browser. If I optimize them for all other major web browsers they'll work poorly for IE. See the problem Microsoft is causing? They want designers to optimize for IE so only it appears to work best. Instead of following the new industry wide web standards Microsoft continues to go off on their own. IE10 is not fully compatible with either the standards -or- IE9. It's a total mess.

Bottom line is that their strategy is not working. Web designers are starting to turn away from Microsoft. That's why so many people are beginning to report problems with IE. Stick with IE and you'll have problems from here on out.

[SteveMac]

That's because whoever wrote the applications decided to use IE as the standard, which was a big mistake. I develop complex database driven web based applications. If I optimize them for IE then they'll work poorly for every other web browser. If I optimize them for all other major web browsers they'll work poorly for IE. See the problem Microsoft is causing? They want designers to optimize for IE so only it appears to work best. Instead of following the new industry wide web standards Microsoft continues to go off on their own. IE10 is not fully compatible with either the standards -or- IE9. It's a total mess.

Bottom line is that their strategy is not working. Web designers are starting to turn away from Microsoft. That's why so many people are beginning to report problems with IE. Stick with IE and you'll have problems from here on out.

Believe me. I'm no IE fan. But in my world, as I know it today, I have to use IE.

Along with online banking, cash management, adobe plug ins for doc viewing, Federal Reserve sites, FHLB sites, (the list goes on), many only have full functionality in IE9. There are simply, and unfortunately, functionalities that don't consistently work with Chrome in the applications that my customers and I use daily.

Since we are end users, we do ask for changes, only to hear from the programmers that it is "hard coded" and we are stuck until the next release.

You are right IE10 is a total mess. From your perspective as a programmer/engineer and from my layman/end-user perspective. The first question we ask when troubleshooting is what browser is being used. If IE 10, we get them into compatibility mode or rolled back to 9. Pretty obvious that 10 is a mess when they had to add a special compatibility mode!

I'd sure like to see everything more standardized (and secure) it would be much better for all of us end users. But in my daily real-world I am stuck in IE9 in many, many instances.

So that is why I stated that that IE was the standard for many current business applications,,,because it is in my world. I may be guilty of projecting that on other areas of business apps that I don't deal with daily.

I sure hope that is that changing, it would make my life easier. But I fear that even if it does change and something better is adopted as the new "standard", then something new will be on the horizon and the applications that are slower to change will again experience those compatibility issues.

When we are providing customer support, trying to convince a customer who loves Chrome that they have to use IE9 to prepare and submit a payroll direct deposit, is like trying to convince a hard-core two wheeler to ride a Spyder!

[Bob Ledford]

It is a software thing between the forums program software and Microsoff IE 10


All you need to do is dump IE - 10 and your in businessś

[dshogman]

OK, the F12 thing works - just set the browser at IE9. Now can do paragraphs in posts BUT can't use any of the smileys on the right. OK, now I can use them after several tries.

[pro10is]

Believe me. I'm no IE fan. But in my world, as I know it today, I have to use IE.

Along with online banking, cash management, adobe plug ins for doc viewing, Federal Reserve sites, FHLB sites, (the list goes on), many only have full functionality in IE9. There are simply, and unfortunately, functionalities that don't consistently work with Chrome in the applications that my customers and I use daily.

Since we are end users, we do ask for changes, only to hear from the programmers that it is "hard coded" and we are stuck until the next release.

You are right IE10 is a total mess. From your perspective as a programmer/engineer and from my layman/end-user perspective. The first question we ask when troubleshooting is what browser is being used. If IE 10, we get them into compatibility mode or rolled back to 9. Pretty obvious that 10 is a mess when they had to add a special compatibility mode!

I'd sure like to see everything more standardized (and secure) it would be much better for all of us end users. But in my daily real-world I am stuck in IE9 in many, many instances.

So that is why I stated that that IE was the standard for many current business applications,,,because it is in my world. I may be guilty of projecting that on other areas of business apps that I don't deal with daily.

I sure hope that is that changing, it would make my life easier. But I fear that even if it does change and something better is adopted as the new "standard", then something new will be on the horizon and the applications that are slower to change will again experience those compatibility issues.

When we are providing customer support, trying to convince a customer who loves Chrome that they have to use IE9 to prepare and submit a payroll direct deposit, is like trying to convince a hard-core two wheeler to ride a Spyder!

I hope the web app developers in your world get their act together and port their code over to the browsers that most people are actually using or else your customers will be waving to you in their rear view mirrors.

BrowserStats.jpg

[FaranH]

It is a software thing between the forums program software and Microsoff IE 10


All you need to do is dump IE - 10 and your in businessś

I work in software and deal primarily with major hotel chains. You'd be shocked at how many are still using IE7 and IE8 as their only allowed browser. Many have proprietary online management software that end users have to log into that have been around for eons back when IE was pretty much the only game in town. They've continued to feed the dinosaur and require their hotel management to access the software only through IE. Even their own IT departments admit that IE is a dog and use Chrome in their department, but are forced to support IE7 and 8 at thousands of hotels around the world.

It's a lot easier said than done for many businesses. When we encounter incompatibilities with our company's software and an IE product, we always recommend downloading Chrome. (Interestingly, most of their security settings still allow them to download and use Chrome even though it's not "officially" allowed.)

Good news is - for those who only have IE10, the F12 thing and picking another browser mode really works!

[Firefly]

I use Chrome 99% of the time but still have IE (8 I think) around for the occasions when I must use it.
Chrome rocks.

[bruiser]

The company I recently retired from uses IE. We had over 400 tough books on our service trucks. What a pain in the a$$. Management used a different OS on their lap tops. Talk about a goat rope.

[SteveMac]

I hope the web app developers in your world get their act together and port their code over to the browsers that most people are actually using or else your customers will be waving to you in their rear view mirrors.

BrowserStats.jpg

When I first looked at the data you showed above, my experience with my customer base made me suspect the accuracy of what you posted. I know that Chrome has surpassed IE Worldwide, but I haven't seen that in my practical experience. And even Worldwide, I suspected that the gap was much closer than you represented.

Since I didn't see a source for your data, I did my own search. I actually found your data source and a few others. I'll present all of those below. I don't disagree with you that Chrome is a more user friendly browser. However, it is still true that many applications,,, that are business related,,, still rely on IE9, and perhaps even older versions of IE to be fully functional. It may not be what is ideal, but it is a fact. Heck, even the Federal Reserve wire application was DOS based until a few short years ago. It takes the business world a bit longer to utilize the latest and greatest because the ramifications of loss due to a platform change is much more substantial. Again, I am not an IE fan, I am just presenting what I know to be a fact in the area of business that I specialize in.

Your data was sourced from: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp The following disclaimer could be found just below your uncited source.

Stats Disclaimer copy.jpg

So I continued my search a bit further and here is a source that is a little less progressive and I think a bit more accurate. It still shows Chrome as the Worldwide leader. http://www.sitepoint.com/browser-trends-march-2013/

3rd source copy.jpg


To continue, I wanted to see if another source would support the conclusion and it did. Chrome has a Worldwide lead in the range of 37% to IE of 30%. However, further parsing of the dataset shows that IE is still the dominant browser in the United States, irregardless of business versus consumer. The United States is where I do business as a small Community Bank.

See below (1) the Worldwide Stats then (2) breakdown of how each browser is used by world region.
If the graph doesn't show clearly, Green is Chrome, and Blue is IE.
Source: http://gs.statcounter.com/

Bar copy.jpg
map copy.jpg


So, statistics can be misleading and we shouldn't rely upon the first thing we come across.

In my business, I rely on what is actually happening in my own customer base. So I will present that below. I think you will see that predictions of impending doom and my customers leaving me in their rear-view mirror may be a bit premature. Please note that the graph below represents the entire universe of visits to our site. Business owners, who (unfortunately) are required to use IE9 only make up a small percentage of this total universe. The overwhelming number of usage on our site is from the Consumer Customer base, which by the way is not limited to IE. So the numbers accurately reflect what is "real" in my business.

actualstats.jpg


I am confident that you are a brilliant programmer and that you absolutely know your business in writing complex applications. But I also know what is going on in my own customer base. Chrome will eventually be fully functional in the Business applications we use. Being a small community bank, we outsource those to a very large 3rd party provider. But the reality is that in many business applications,,, change to the latest and greatest,,, comes at a much slower pace due to the potential for financial impact. Consumer based apps move much more quickly.

Lastly, I would say that the choice of browser is far less important to the hard-core business customer than you might suspect. What is important to them is that they are able to pay their 300 employees accurately and timely. If the business loses their payroll administrator, and I then personally drive to the business to help their new employee process and submit that payroll, then I have just earned that customers respect and gratitude that won't be lightly tossed aside because they can't use Google Chrome.

[Flanker]

Quirk related to IE10. Uninstall the update and go back to IE9. Disable automatic updates if they are enabled.

Aaaaagggghhhhhh!!!!!!!!!! So that's why mine's been doing it (in this very forum fer instance)! Curse you Microsoft.........................wait! What's that knocking at the door??!!

[pro10is]

When I first looked at the data you showed above, my experience with my customer base made me suspect the accuracy of what you posted. I know that Chrome has surpassed IE Worldwide, but I haven't seen that in my practical experience. And even Worldwide, I suspected that the gap was much closer than you represented.

Since I didn't see a source for your data, I did my own search. I actually found your data source and a few others. I'll present all of those below. I don't disagree with you that Chrome is a more user friendly browser. However, it is still true that many applications,,, that are business related,,, still rely on IE9, and perhaps even older versions of IE to be fully functional. It may not be what is ideal, but it is a fact. Heck, even the Federal Reserve wire application was DOS based until a few short years ago. It takes the business world a bit longer to utilize the latest and greatest because the ramifications of loss due to a platform change is much more substantial. Again, I am not an IE fan, I am just presenting what I know to be a fact in the area of business that I specialize in.

Your data was sourced from: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp The following disclaimer could be found just below your uncited source.

Stats Disclaimer copy.jpg

So I continued my search a bit further and here is a source that is a little less progressive and I think a bit more accurate. It still shows Chrome as the Worldwide leader. http://www.sitepoint.com/browser-trends-march-2013/

3rd source copy.jpg


To continue, I wanted to see if another source would support the conclusion and it did. Chrome has a Worldwide lead in the range of 37% to IE of 30%. However, further parsing of the dataset shows that IE is still the dominant browser in the United States, irregardless of business versus consumer. The United States is where I do business as a small Community Bank.

See below (1) the Worldwide Stats then (2) breakdown of how each browser is used by world region.
If the graph doesn't show clearly, Green is Chrome, and Blue is IE.
Source: http://gs.statcounter.com/

Bar copy.jpg
map copy.jpg


So, statistics can be misleading and we shouldn't rely upon the first thing we come across.

In my business, I rely on what is actually happening in my own customer base. So I will present that below. I think you will see that predictions of impending doom and my customers leaving me in their rear-view mirror may be a bit premature. Please note that the graph below represents the entire universe of visits to our site. Business owners, who (unfortunately) are required to use IE9 only make up a small percentage of this total universe. The overwhelming number of usage on our site is from the Consumer Customer base, which by the way is not limited to IE. So the numbers accurately reflect what is "real" in my business.

actualstats.jpg


I am confident that you are a brilliant programmer and that you absolutely know your business in writing complex applications. But I also know what is going on in my own customer base. Chrome will eventually be fully functional in the Business applications we use. Being a small community bank, we outsource those to a very large 3rd party provider. But the reality is that in many business applications,,, change to the latest and greatest,,, comes at a much slower pace due to the potential for financial impact. Consumer based apps move much more quickly.

Lastly, I would say that the choice of browser is far less important to the hard-core business customer than you might suspect. What is important to them is that they are able to pay their 300 employees accurately and timely. If the business loses their payroll administrator, and I then personally drive to the business to help their new employee process and submit that payroll, then I have just earned that customers respect and gratitude that won't be lightly tossed aside because they can't use Google Chrome.

Sigh. I really don't want to get into this with you but you keep coming at me so now I have to respond. Everyone else please forgive me and go ahead and skip this post if you're already weary of technological mumbo jumbo and browser wars.

I say this with absolutely no malice intended, so please don't take it the wrong way: You are in serious technological denial. You've done all this research just to try to deny my assertion that Internet Explorer is rapidly on its way out? It's not me or anyone else on this forum you should be worried about, it's your business and your customers you need to think of. When it comes to the internet you must never focus your business model on what was or even so much on what is, you must always focus on what is coming so you can plan ahead and be ready. If you don't you'll always be one giant leap behind your competition. If you had done this your current application would already be working with Chrome which, by even the stats you yourself supplied above, is already the world's leading browser. If my bank tried to force me to use an already outdated version of the worst browser in order to access my obviously vital financial records I would immediately close my all accounts and find a bank that wasn't so restrictive and behind the times. I wouldn't keep my life's savings in any bank that I even remotely suspected was technologically inept. Your business's web application is its store window to the online world, it's how everyone online perceives your business vitality and decides if they want to do business with you. This is especially true when deciding to trust a business to hold, conduct transactions, and keep safe one's money. You're honestly telling me that you're comfortable with the fact that the first thing you tell your customers (who have to call in to complain that your web app doesn't work) is that they must use a down level version of a browser they've already abandoned and do not wish to use, because it's the only one that'll work with your application?? Wow. Again, with no malice intended, you seriously need to rethink this through. Do not let any shortsightedness and possible inaptitude of your 3rd party software provider become your business's problem. As a software engineer I'm telling you that there is no technological reason why any web application cannot be made to run on all browsers. This is called cross browser compatibility and it should be in the top 3 requirements you spec to your application designer. If they can't guarantee cross browser compatibility you do not want to do business with them.

Look, I was just trying to tell a few good folks here not to waste their valuable time using an outdated, poorly performing, incompatible, dying browser. I certainly don't want to tell you how to run your business. But if you continue to try to make a case why I'm wrong or didn't state accurate facts, or why they, or anyone else should continue to use IE, I just have to speak up because it's one of my areas of expertise and I can't let bad advice lie. So if you don't like my advice that's ok, let's just agree to disagree and move on. Please.

[wyliec]

I decided to try Chrome before going back to IE9. However, I found Chrome to be much quicker on the internet when going from one site to another and even within a site, which was actually the way it was even prior to IE10.

[darkduck]

Sigh. I really don't want to get into this with you but you keep coming at me so now I have to respond. Everyone else please forgive me and go ahead and skip this post if you're already weary of technological mumbo jumbo and browser wars.

I say this with absolutely no malice intended, so please don't take it the wrong way: You are in serious technological denial. You've done all this research just to try to deny my assertion that Internet Explorer is rapidly on its way out? It's not me or anyone else on this forum you should be worried about, it's your business and your customers you need to think of. When it comes to the internet you must never focus your business model on what was or even so much on what is, you must always focus on what is coming so you can plan ahead and be ready. If you don't you'll always be one giant leap behind your competition. If you had done this your current application would already be working with Chrome which, by even the stats you yourself supplied above, is already the world's leading browser. If my bank tried to force me to use an already outdated version of the worst browser in order to access my obviously vital financial records I would immediately close my all accounts and find a bank that wasn't so restrictive and behind the times. I wouldn't keep my life's savings in any bank that I even remotely suspected was technologically inept. Your business's web application is its store window to the online world, it's how everyone online perceives your business vitality and decides if they want to do business with you. This is especially true when deciding to trust a business to hold, conduct transactions, and keep safe one's money. You're honestly telling me that you're comfortable with the fact that the first thing you tell your customers (who have to call in to complain that your web app doesn't work) is that they must use a down level version of a browser they've already abandoned and do not wish to use, because it's the only one that'll work with your application?? Wow. Again, with no malice intended, you seriously need to rethink this through. Do not let any shortsightedness and possible inaptitude of your 3rd party software provider become your business's problem. As a software engineer I'm telling you that there is no technological reason why any web application cannot be made to run on all browsers. This is called cross browser compatibility and it should be in the top 3 requirements you spec to your application designer. If they can't guarantee cross browser compatibility you do not want to do business with them.

Look, I was just trying to tell a few good folks here not to waste their valuable time using an outdated, poorly performing, incompatible, dying browser. I certainly don't want to tell you how to run your business. But if you continue to try to make a case why I'm wrong or didn't state accurate facts, or why they, or anyone else should continue to use IE, I just have to speak up because it's one of my areas of expertise and I can't let bad advice lie. So if you don't like my advice that's ok, let's just agree to disagree and move on. Please.

pro10is,


I'm sorry my friend, I do intend to be antagonistic. You are thinking crazy if you think that IE is on it's way out. I've been
a professional developer for years and keep up with all of the current standards and do make my applications compatible with
IE, Chrome, and Firefox however I only support back to IE 7 which is well enough. Now while working for an international aviation company
I figured out real quick that some of the largest aviation manufacturers would only support IE6 and no further do to the fact that they had
custom software that has worked just fine for years and can only run on IE6. If they were to jump up to chrome or IE10 then that would cost
millions of dollars and probably years of development. So with that being said, I'm pretty sure that you have never work in a professional
enterprise setting and truly don't understand how large corporations run and have to stay on older systems for now. One final note if IE was going out
then why in the hell are they now going to support WebGL and HTML5(http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...v=vs.85).aspx). I would guess
because they are going to shut it down.

-- DarkDuck

[Firefly]

BROWSER FIGHT !!!!!!

----------------------------

I have tools in my toolbox from various makers... they all work well and depending on the project I may select a certain tool over another.

IE will be around for years to come, but will continue to lose market share unless they really get their act together. Microsoft runs hot and cold with OS versions and browser versions. Some are great... some suck. We still run XP pro on many machines because of how great it is. Hated Vista so didn't run it. Don't care for Windows 8 so I stick with Windows 7 most the time.

Hell, I still run some DOS apps every day because they're fast, accurate and no Windows version has come close to the ease of use.

If the Windows phones and tablets do well, you will see IE perhaps even gain some market share.

I still avoid it like the plague, but to each their own. If you're in development, you'd have to be nuts to drop support for IE.

[Firefly]

Another point..... BING. No... not Bob's BING!..... but the search engine. I've hated it from day one.... refused to go back and see how it's doing. Well, many tech people I know are now moving towards using it rather than Google.... so I wouldn't count MS as down and out anytime soon.