More Thoughts on A Dealer Rating Thread

[Pennyrick]

Earlier this week and sometime in the past couple of years threads have been posted advocating a standing thread whereby Can Am dealers would be graded or ranked on their quality of service. While such an idea has a lot of merits there are some dangers that bear further consideration. I’ve thought about this a lot and have decided to post this thread that is strictly my opinion.
First, there are always two sides to every story… the consumers and the dealers. In the case of the Spyder there may, in fact, be three sides to the story if the factory has been involved with direct contact to the dealership or to the customer, or both.

On SpyderLovers we consistently hear only the consumer side and that is logical because the site is set up mostly for consumers. Given that, I believe such a thread would be unfair to both the dealers listed and to BRP because of it’s built-in, one-side-only bias.

I once witnessed a confrontation between a customer and a dealer where the customer wanted replacement wiring and labor on his Spyder at no charge because the wiring overheated and caused damage. When the dealer pointed out that the mass of auxiliary lights the owner had installed overloaded the circuits and that the customer, himself had caused the problem, the guy would have none of it. He cursed the dealership out in front of everyone, threatened to sue both the dealer and BRP and left in a rage when they asked him to sign a work order guaranteeing payment.
That is the kind of situation that could give a dealer low marks on such a thread and be totally unjustified.

I also wonder about the liability issue that Lamont Bryden would face if such a thread would cause economic harm to some innocent dealer. The libel laws in this country apply just as much to the vehicle that dispenses the libelous information as it does to the originator of such information.

We hear a lot of negative comments (less now than we did a few year’s ago), on SpyderLovers but each post needs to be weighed on it’s own merits. There are countless times when I have read a post and thought to myself….”there is another side to this story.”

Yes, there are some bad dealers out there. Some are under capitalized and cannot afford to hire competent staff. Some have employees working for them who are less than honest and some just don’t understand that we live in a world where today’s screw ups become common knowledge by tomorrow because of the internet, smart phones and sites like this.

I believe we should let BRP continue to police their own dealer network but we should let them know about individual cases that could bear investigation.

Rick Rae (aka Double Trouble)

[wyliec]

I couldn't agree with you more. There is one exception; even when only two parties are involved, there are always three sides to the story; party A's side, party B's side and the unbiased unadulterated truth.

[Chupaca]

and with double trouble..very well put...you covered all points as I see them...

[Bob Denman]

You sure hit the most salient points with your new thread!

[Woody]

The other thread has shied away from any negatives and momentum is building for recognizing heroic service events or perhaps simply week in week out good service and value.


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[Dragonrider]

Hmmm, Two dealers, about 40 miles apart. One goes out of their way to be helpful, is willing to deal on toys & farkles, and has techs that are open to talking about what they do, how you can improve your care of your Spyder, and treat your Spyder like their own toy.

Another dealer that quote's list on everything, doesn't let you talk to the tech, parks your Spyder out in the rain, and let's other customers sit on it…

Wonder what these ratings might look like? Biased by personal interactions? Sure, but you wouldn't be looking at just one response - rather many. If a dealer only had a few responses, any major + or - would skew the average, but with larger numbers, a real picture would start to emerge. Just my $0.02

[Netminder]

Well said!

[ARtraveler]

with the OP on this also. Mention made along these lines in the other thred--but explained better here.

RE: Statistics: You need at least 28 responses to have a reliable sample. A couple real good or real bad posts about a single dealer--do not make a reliable sample of service etc.

[bruiser]

Good post Rick. I have to agree with the possibility of liable and I don't think Lamont would let a thread like the one mentioned fly.

[Dochands]

While we're at it let's apologize to the Big Banks for us not appreciating all their fees and foreclosures.

I understand all the negative concerns but the issue of liability is truly silly. We are consumers. End users.

We have purchased an expensive product that requires expensive and expert maintenance.

Where else would Spyder Lovers be able to openly discuss this issue and create a user necessary and valuable database of dealer standards?

By this logic Consumer Reports and Yelp would have never existed. Clearly the vocal community at large is not for active consumerism and I am truly surprised by this. The customer is always right should be a goal and motto of every business. I, for one, feel no need to protect BRP or the dealers who have failed their customers.

[Woody]

How do they avoid lawsuits from the thousands of negative reviews posted re: their vendors and products sold which are manufactured by someone else?

That having been said, it's Lamont's risk, and he hasn't weighed in.

[Jeriatric]

While we're at it let's apologize to the Big Banks for us not appreciating all their fees and foreclosures.

I understand all the negative concerns but the issue of liability is truly silly. We are consumers. End users.

We have purchased an expensive product that requires expensive and expert maintenance.

Where else would Spyder Lovers be able to openly discuss this issue and create a user necessary and valuable database of dealer standards?

By this logic Consumer Reports and Yelp would have never existed. Clearly the vocal community at large is not for active consumerism and I am truly surprised by this. The customer is always right should be a goal and motto of every business. I, for one, feel no need to protect BRP or the dealers who have failed their customers.

Here's your chance. Start a motorcycle dealer satisfaction site that would cover all dealers and all makes sold in the US.

[Dochands]

There are several social media sites that rate everything from doctors to donuts already. Maybe the answer is to agree on the best one and create a link on the forum just for this purpose. Could be a sticky thread. That answers any vague liability concerns. Gets it off the forum where the concern seems to be the direct personal nature of the criticism. As far as the Golden Ticket type those great dealers could be reposted and acknowledged on this forum.

[Pennyrick]

By this logic Consumer Reports and Yelp would have never existed. Clearly the vocal community at large is not for active consumerism and I am truly surprised by this. The customer is always right should be a goal and motto of every business. I, for one, feel no need to protect BRP or the dealers who have failed their customers.

Active consumerism has killed everything from the Corvair to finely shaved boneless beef (dubbed pink slime by some alarmists).

Frankly the customer is not always right and I get a bit tired of folks jumping on the bash BRP bandwagon without knowing the full details of any dispute.

Who judges the 'failed their customers' test, Dochands?

For many years part of my job was to run seminars on customer satisfaction. I used to talk about the ten rule versus the one hundred rule. If a business does something outstanding in customer service, the recipient will likely tell ten others the good news. If a business has an unhappy customer, the recipient will likely tell one hundred others the negative news, but human nature is such that negative news becomes exaggerated with each re-telling.

In today's world with the internet..... that one hundred rule becomes a many thousand rule. The small business person or even a larger business with a small market share can get pounded down the tubes in a heartbeat!

I am not a big fan of 'gang' warfare'. Each situation is unique and should be handled as such.

[kawakii]

We use Yelp.com to leave reviews good and bad for business including our dealers. We use two locally Freedom Power Sports and HK Powersports. I always tell everyone to share their good and bad experiences there where everyone can benefit. It also allows business owners to write back to complaints or contact the reviewer to thanks them for a good review or try to fix a bad e pertinence. I have had a few business that I've left good reviews contact me and want to thank me. We've actually had one of the bakery's we've frequented send us a gift card. Business should get recognized not only for the good but the bad. Spyderlovers who have great dealers should consider writing reviews on yelp.com for other Powersports buyers.

[Huntindawg1962]

There are several social media sites that rate everything from doctors to donuts already. Maybe the answer is to agree on the best one and create a link on the forum just for this purpose. Could be a sticky thread. That answers any vague liability concerns. Gets it off the forum where the concern seems to be the direct personal nature of the criticism. As far as the Golden Ticket type those great dealers could be reposted and acknowledged on this forum.

With the internet and forums very few come on to say " wow - I got the exact service I went in for and at a fair price" Most times we only hear about people feeling unjustly harmed usually in an effort to sway everyone. We all want to think our negative experience is so unjust that the whole world will just see our side, boycott the offender, and watch him wither in a few short days as a "serves him right" justification. Wont happen.

Why not start a thread that is only a "wow - did I ever get great service from XXX" thread instead?

Besides - those YELP and otherwise internet based review sites are all anonymous threads and usually filled with people working at or for those places posting the positives that never happened anyhow. Low value references IMO.

[bruiser]

I purposely left out the name of the dealer in my comments. I don't like naming names unless the service/repair is so bad that it may in some way cause harm or damage. Every time I take either my car or truck in for service I get a survey from GM asking for ratings on the service and dealer. I was happy to complete them. They also asked if they could use my name when talking with the dealer. I always said yes. I've only received a few requests from BRP for comments and I filled those out also.