Hindle, Backfire, JB Pro, Filter Questions.. Please HELP a New Spyder owner.

[WAR209]

Hello All,
I'm sorry if the topic's been beat to death... but I really need definitive answers from folks who've been through this.
I'm a Proud new owner of a 2011 RSS SE5 BUT... I recently purchased the Hindle exhaust, hoping I'd luck out & not have the backfiring, sputter issues when downshifting. I installed it a few days ago, & have all the typical issues most others had. Very upsetting... I guess I thought I wouldn't have the issue with a 2011.

Anywho.. I've been trying to read all the posts, but most are a little old, or were remedies for older spyders, (not sure if that makes a real difference). Bottom line is, I don't think there's any dealer updates I can get, for a 2011 RSS, so thats out.. I also don't want to remove the Hindle since I just got it, So that leaves me with having to spend even more money to fix the issue. My question are....

What exactly do I need to resolve this on a 2011 RSS SE5? Is the JB Pro the best option for me? Is there anything new &/or better out there these days? Also, do I need to replace the filter? If so, which one is best? Hopefully there's a clear answer as to what I need to do/buy, in order to fix this. Also, are the Hindle heat shields still loosening these days? If so, Is there anything I can do to prevent it?

Alot of questions, I know.. Thanks for any help you can throw my way.

[WAR209]

Well... Was hoping to get some advice from those with experience, before I pulled the trigger, but...... no replies. I've tried to read every post on here that mentioned Hindle, Backfiring &/or Juice Box Pro, but I have to admit; I still feel a little uncertain. I just took my Spyder in for the first 600 mile service, & asked for their advice. They recommended I NOT instal a JB & said that "a little backfiring & sputtering is normal with any aftermarket pipe". They felt the JBP wouldn't make a difference at all. I went to another authorized shop, & they recommended a JBP, Filter, etc, etc & wanted over $1,000. (I ran outta there quick. Just felt they were trying to bleed me dry)

I called Two Bros. Racing customer service today & asked them for advice. Bottom line is, I ordered the Juice Box Pro, along with a "K&N Performance filter" from them. They said their JBP maps are tuned for their pipes & they could not guarantee that I would'nt have the same backfire/etc issues even after installing the JB. That really concerned me, but I still purchased it based on the positive outcomes I've read on this forum. I REALLY hope I'm not just throwing money away at this point . My wife's about to kick my if I purchase 1 more thing.

I'm trying to understand whats involved with the "maps". Can anyone tell me or point me to a post for recommended JBP settings for what I have? Or is it still different for each Spyder, regardless?

Any advice at all would be appreciated.

[Dwanton]

if you read all the post about this subject than this is just gonna be a repete answer. -- sorry and wish i could help you more as I have also looked for help and its very limited as you have found out by all the replies you have gotten.

you should have gotten the PC5 with auto tune -- it does everything you need .

i have the K&N , JB pro and yoshi pipe -- and i am using the maps downloaded from the powercommander site . I loaded map 6 and the bike runs like a raped ape -- can smoke the tire -- but still have some popping here and there .. it depends on the weather and if the bike is warmed up too !! if i shift at 4000 rmps it is smooth and quiet.. but hammer on it and shift at 6000 and up , she will pop every time -- but I don not get poping on deceleration.

i have the dials turned all the way clockwise also ... i havent had a chance to hook the laptop up and try map 5 yet but want to ..

I have heard of some sort of valve under the throttlebodies that can be disconnected , guessing it has something to do with polutions ?? not sure ,, if i find out i will let you know.

eventually I will have her dyno tuned and have my own maps to share -- I do find it hard to believe that noone here has had the machine dyno'd and wont share the map.

good luck to ya !!

[Dwanton]

here is the link to the power commander maps -- just enter Bombardier-CanAm Spyder-2011 -- and click download maps --

http://www.powercommander.com/powerc...&model-n=CanAm Spyder&year=2012&mk=1&mdl=90&yr=2012

you have to hook the JB pro to your laptop to install the maps .. just load the JB program and plug in to the programmer and you will see what the bike is doing while it running -- if you are computer literate you will figure it out pretty easy -- not that hard.

make sure you disconnect the battery when hooking up the programmer for the first time and any time you want to reset you computer .. I disconnect the negative cable for 30 minutes everytime I switch maps .

the program you load onto your laptop will tell you which map you have loaded ..

again , the best thing would of been to get the PC5 with auto tune and you would not have to do any of this stuff ..

[NancysToy]

One of the difficulties in responding was because you were not real specific...and you seem to be tugging in two directions at once. Please understand that a hi-flow filter will increase your problems, not help them. It will further lean out the engine. Yes, it is one component needed for higher performance, but it will not offset the effects of the aftermarket muffler...just the opposite.

The Juice Box Pro should help resolve your issue, and will do well even with the added performance filter. I would have recommended the PC V with autotune if you don't have a good understanding of fuel injection mapping and engine tuning, but the JB Pro should hae a map that will get you in the right ballpark. For fine tuning, however, you will be on your own. Most people tend to go overboard, and end up too rich across the board.

[WAR209]

.... It was obviously not my intent to make it difficult for folks to respond. I’m new to the community & was simply reaching out to those with first hand experience for guidance & help in defining what I would need in order to resolve my issues. (We were all noobs like me at one point or another). In reading the various posts, I did learn that installing a hi-flowing filter without a fuel management system would only make matters worse. That was never something I considered.

I guess I was a bit naive to think a simple Hindle install would not require any further upgrades, when installed on a 2011 or later RSS.

The Two Bros. customer service tech, instructed me to purchase the filter for the following reason. He claimed the Hindle is not as “open” as one of their pipes. Therefore he stated the filter would likely open things up to a point that would allow one of their standard maps to work for me. He recommended that I try the stock map setting right out the box, & if that didn’t do the trick, he would email me a custom map that might be a better fit.

Who knows…. Might all be a buncha I’m with Dwanton. Hard to believe someone doesn’t already have the perfect map. Anyway. Thank you both for your replies. I should receive my JB pro with K&N filter next wed. I’ll install it all & post the outcome. Maybe it’ll help the next noob.

[kman]

I have an 08 rs/gs with Hindle exhaust and Evo race air filter.I am running map 3 on JB Pro with + 10% on the closed loop setting.I have no popping or backfiring,hope this helps.

[Ga Blue Knight]

[QUOTE=WAR209;528725]Well... Was hoping to get some advice from those with experience, before I pulled the trigger, but...... no replies.

Hope you did get the information that you needed. Just some advice for a new guy, it takes time for folks to respond sometimes on a technical question. While time goes by your post gets buried to the second or maybe third page. It's best to keep bumping it up so folks can see it to respond.

[NancysToy]

.... It was obviously not my intent to make it difficult for folks to respond. I’m new to the community & was simply reaching out to those with first hand experience for guidance & help in defining what I would need in order to resolve my issues. (We were all noobs like me at one point or another). In reading the various posts, I did learn that installing a hi-flowing filter without a fuel management system would only make matters worse. That was never something I considered.

I guess I was a bit naive to think a simple Hindle install would not require any further upgrades, when installed on a 2011 or later RSS.

The Two Bros. customer service tech, instructed me to purchase the filter for the following reason. He claimed the Hindle is not as “open” as one of their pipes. Therefore he stated the filter would likely open things up to a point that would allow one of their standard maps to work for me. He recommended that I try the stock map setting right out the box, & if that didn’t do the trick, he would email me a custom map that might be a better fit.

Who knows…. Might all be a buncha I’m with Dwanton. Hard to believe someone doesn’t already have the perfect map. Anyway. Thank you both for your replies. I should receive my JB pro with K&N filter next wed. I’ll install it all & post the outcome. Maybe it’ll help the next noob.

I hope you did not think I was throwing rocks, just some advice to help you get a better and quicker response.

Normally, the Hindle alone should not require any additional mods. That is the theory. Many seem to exhibit a little popping on deceleration, though. That is not harmful, but it is annoying. Worn Y-gaskets can make the problem much worse...or even damaging. As you have discovered through your research, a hi-flow filter can do the same.

I agree with the TB tech's thoughts that the filter might open things up enough for one of their maps to work. Your fuel mapping will likely not be ideal, but too rich is better than too lean. Somebody probably does have an idea of what settings work well with your combination. I'd say exactly what mods I had, including the brand of air filter, and ask what their Juice Box settings are...if they are not running standard mapping. I hope you find a solution that works for you.

[daveinva]

The problem with the JB Pro is that it's opening up pandora's box. Once you find a setting that works, with minimal or even no backfiring, something changes and you have to tweak it all over again.

Case in point: running my setup (Yoshi, KM performance filter, JB Pro) I finally had it "dialed in" perfectly with the PC Map 5. Manually set a little leaner at the low range, even at mid and high range, it was perfect. No popping, smooth accel and decel, happy customer.

Then the weather got cold. Had to enrichen the low and mid range.

Then I went into the mountains this past weekend. Got that fun schizophrenic thing going on where the high altitude (less air) competes with the cold (thicker air) and you have *no idea* which settings work.

It's a lot of trial and error. What works at "around town throttle" generally won't work best at WOT twisty riding. There's only so much you can do by the seat of your pants, and even then I know that it's not *really* accurate-- you simply do need a dyno to set these things up perfectly.

That said, Scotty is right, if you're going to err in a direction, by all means, err on the too rich side. You'll know you're too rich if you smell lots of gas while riding and see your mileage plummet (and obviously, too rich for *too long* is bad as it'll foul your plugs-- but the good news there is just replace your plugs and you're back in business). But all things being equal, too rich will just do damage to your pocketbook while too lean could damage your bike. And that's, ummm, bad.

Bottom line: if I had to do it over again... I'd buy the PC to have the autotune.

Actually, scratch that-- if I had to do it over again, I wouldn't put an aftermarket exhaust on at all. It's too much of a "sweater thread" where the benefits you get are outweighed by the unending frustration of finding the mythical sweet spot.

[WAR209]

Thank you all for your posting advice

At Present, I have:

• A 2011 RSS-SE5
• Newly installed Hindle Exhaust

My Present Issues:

• Fluttering/Popping/Spitting/Coughing, (no sneezing thankfully), when coasting.. (Especially in 2nd/3rd gear at around 53-5500 RPM)
• Backfiring if I let the SE5 downshift on its own, not so much when manually downshifting
• Seems a little laggy when accelerating from a complete stop
• If on Neutral at a light, & give it a very light rev... at times, it almost seems like it wants to stall out, (not a consistent issue)

What I recently ordered (Not yet rec'd):

• TwoBros. Juice Box Pro
• K&N Drop-in Filter

If there's anyone out there with the exact same set-up, or very similar setup, I'd greatly appreciate any map setting advice you have for me. If you've gone down this road & think I've just spent $$$ on a JBP & K&N Filter & my issues will probably not completely go away or greatly improve. Please share your war stories/input. And you feel I should just return the dang things & deal with my current issues, I'd appreciate that advice as well.

Like daveinva stated, I DEFINETLY don’t want to open pandora’s box. If the consensus is installing the filter & JBP will require constant tweaking, cause error codes, cause damage to other components, etc. Then I’d rather just return it when I get it.

Hearing experiences like daveinva’s is extremely helpful to me. I’m just trying to decide what direction I need to go, so thank you to all for your input.

[NancysToy]

How many miles on your RSS? If it is 5000 or greater, it might pay to check the Y-gaskets. I'd check the joint where the Hindle joins the exhaust pipe, too. Any exhaust leaks will enhance the popping. You shouldn't get that much indigestion from just adding a Hindle...unless perhaps if you were in a very hot climate or at a real high elevation. One other thing you might do is look into the right vent up front (where the foglights mount), and see if the APPTS sensor is properly installed there. If you can see it, it's OK (unless the foam cover is missing). Some have been left tied to the frame when the Spyder was prepped.

[WAR209]

How many miles on your RSS? If it is 5000 or greater, it might pay to check the Y-gaskets. I'd check the joint where the Hindle joins the exhaust pipe, too. Any exhaust leaks will enhance the popping. You shouldn't get that much indigestion from just adding a Hindle...unless perhaps if you were in a very hot climate or at a real high elevation. One other thing you might do is look into the right vent up front (where the foglights mount), and see if the APPTS sensor is properly installed there. If you can see it, it's OK (unless the foam cover is missing). Some have been left tied to the frame when the Spyder was prepped.

I only have 616 miles on it at the moment. I used the lit cigarette recommendation i read on here, to check for leaks when i installed the pipe. No leaks from what I can see. I'm in PA, right outside of Philly.., so elavation is not an issue, & the temps have been in the mid to upper 60's lately. I'll check for that sensor when I get home from work. Wouldn't supprise me if it were missed during build. During my 600 mile service a couple days ago, they noticed the rear shock spacers were never installed. (I always wondered if that shock was supposed to me crooked).. Anyway... I'll look for a sensor.

[Campverdefela]

When others before you modded to just a exhaust change, usually all that was needed was the 02 Modifier. It's a shame no one makes the little guy any more.

[WAR209]

When others before you modded to just a exhaust change, usually all that was needed was the 02 Modifier. It's a shame no one makes the little guy any more.

Yeah... I read those posts too... I've scoured the internet for one. They're long gone.....

[Noral]

How many miles on your RSS? If it is 5000 or greater, it might pay to check the Y-gaskets. I'd check the joint where the Hindle joins the exhaust pipe, too. Any exhaust leaks will enhance the popping. You shouldn't get that much indigestion from just adding a Hindle...unless perhaps if you were in a very hot climate or at a real high elevation. One other thing you might do is look into the right vent up front (where the foglights mount), and see if the APPTS sensor is properly installed there. If you can see it, it's OK (unless the foam cover is missing). Some have been left tied to the frame when the Spyder was prepped.

What is this APPTS sensor you speak of and what is it's job? Thanks

[coz]

How many miles on your RSS? If it is 5000 or greater, it might pay to check the Y-gaskets. I'd check the joint where the Hindle joins the exhaust pipe, too. Any exhaust leaks will enhance the popping. You shouldn't get that much indigestion from just adding a Hindle...unless perhaps if you were in a very hot climate or at a real high elevation. One other thing you might do is look into the right vent up front (where the foglights mount), and see if the APPTS sensor is properly installed there. If you can see it, it's OK (unless the foam cover is missing). Some have been left tied to the frame when the Spyder was prepped.

anybody got a picture of the appts sensor properly installed? i don't recall ever seeing it on mine.

[NancysToy]

What is this APPTS sensor you speak of and what is it's job? Thanks

Sorry for the typo...it's AAPTS. My fingers get ahead of my brain sometimes. It is the Ambient Air Pressure & Temperature Sensor. It gives information to the ECM for the fuel mixture, in addition to the MAPS sensor in the intake.

anybody got a picture of the appts sensor properly installed? i don't recall ever seeing it on mine.

There was a picture posted when people started noticing them improperly installed. It was a long time ago. I didn't find it in a quick search, but it should be around.

[boborgera]

anybody got a picture of the appts sensor properly installed? i don't recall ever seeing it on mine.

On my 08 GS I could see it looking though the lower vent hole on the right side, And if memory serves me right it had Bosch written on it.

[coz]

it's right where you said it was . is it installed right ? seems like it is, but what do i know ?

[NancysToy]

it's right where you said it was . is it installed right ? seems like it is, but what do i know ?

basically, if you can see it there, bolted in place, it is installed right.

[coz]

i do remember reading about this a long time ago, but i try not to fix things that aren't broken

[Noral]

it's right where you said it was . is it installed right ? seems like it is, but what do i know ?

Looks good but where is the foam cover ?

[WAR209]

Sorry for the typo...it's AAPTS. My fingers get ahead of my brain sometimes. It is the Ambient Air Pressure & Temperature Sensor. It gives information to the ECM for the fuel mixture, in addition to the MAPS sensor in the intake.

Just checked things out. The AAPTS is there where it's supposed to be.

[NancysToy]

Looks good but where is the foam cover ?

It's down below the sensor. Can't see it in the picture, and often not by looking without a strong light and just the right angle. If they are bolted in the proper place, they usually have the cover...but not always.