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  1. #26
    Very Active Member oldgoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa Spyder View Post
    If you look at most of the polls of ownership of these Spyders you will see that the largest group are over 50 and have some type of medical issues that don't allow them to operate two wheels as safely as they once did. 75% of owners were 2 wheelers before they were 3 wheelers. I have 48 years on 2 wheels so youare not telling me anything about 2 wheels. The fact is that we feel safer on these Spyders then we do 2 wheels now. and as for the ladies, well many of them were just not physically able to handle 2 wheelers. But now they are able to have that same feeling of the open road and feel safe about it too. It really is all about safety.

    That's me as well.

    55 years on 2 wheels

    3 weeks on 3 wheels & loving it.

    +1

  2. #27
    Active Member Kinderhook's Avatar
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    Default 3 wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by harley rider View Post
    First of all I am not trying to put anyone down by any means... However I just don’t get it. Why a 3 wheeler "unless handicapped"? I understand the open road and all, believe me i do. But I just don’t get why you would spend the money on these bikes or a trike for that matter unless you are physically in need of one. Don’t get me wrong, when i am old and can’t hold 2 wheels up any more ill have a trike too. But i am seeing so many people that have these things for their first motorcycle "if you want to call it a bike" and i don’t understand, why? Is it that you just can’t grasp the concept of 2 wheels? If so cool, still want to enjoy the open road, cool. But what is it? Oh and before someone gets their panties in knots Yes i have ridden one, and I’ll take my road king any day of the week over one of these things... IMO you shouldn't even need a motorcycle endorsement on your lic. for this... I have a very open mind and honestly would like some corrective "respectful" feedback on this. I am NOT, by any means trying to be disrespectful to any of you all. Just wanted to know so bad that I created this account just to ask this question.
    I hear people arguing over Ford trucks vs. GM trucks vs. Ram trucks vs. Toyota trucks etc. Some people buy a Corvette, others Prius. Some people buy Goldwings, others BMW, others Yamaha. Me, I looked at two wheels and the safety features in a Spyder and bought a Spyder. If I had chosen a two wheeler, it would have been a Honda or BMW. You don't get why someone would buy a 3 wheeler, I don't get why people are so in love with Harleys; heavy old-fashioned engineering, noisy, vibrating machines not to mention the goofy clothing Harley riders seem to love. My point? There are lots of opinions out there and little to place one above the other, my own included. If you don't like trikes or three wheelers, don't buy one! If you think Harley's are the greatest invention since sliced bread, buy one! Just don't suffer under the ilusion that your choice is any better than anyone else's or that somehow riding a machine with a cult like following and little else going for it somehow makes you superior. Many people got over the Ford vs. Chevy debate after high school (or after Toyota and Honda humbled them both and forced new thinking). It's really not relevant whether you "get it" or not since you are probably never going to be a BRP customer, so who cares?

  3. #28
    spydee owner
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    I participated in a fundraiser ride for prostate cancer in June.
    At the end of the ride, I parked the spyder in the shade beside two harleys (roadkings).
    When I talk to someone else -even if I am not keen on what they are riding - I never insult them.
    This roadking owner came over and said "when I see these spyders on the road, I ask myself WHY?" I could have asked him why he has streamers all over his bike. If people took the same opinion he had toward my spyder when a Harley was basically a bicyle with an engine, he would not have his roadking today.
    Many of these Harley owners are so into the Harley image that they seem to have blinders on when it comes to seeing another riders perspective.
    I have owned motorcycles before, and may again, but I have to say the spyder is just downright fun to ride. When you sit on it and look down at the side pods it looks like your riding a cross between a formula one car and a rocket.

    I also agree with arntufun, this guy with the Harley said he was being respectful, but every word in his post was insulting especially to anyone with a disability. This guy is most likely a troll and should be blocked! He deserved every negative response he got.

  4. #29
    Very Active Member wyliec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
    You asked a very good question; even if your motives are a bit suspect...
    My Missus and I don't "ride on two" anymore for many reasons; the most relevant one to this discussion, is that we ride a Spyder because we can, and we enjoy the non "cookie-cutter" experience of being on something different!

    Now... Why are you only on a Road King? I've ridden them and quite frankly; the Ultra Classic is a much nicer bike! Don't get me wrong; they're not a bad ride for somebody who can't afford a real Harley, but c'mon... REALLY??

    Bob D.,

    Sometimes you are so good; right to the point.
    Last edited by wyliec; 07-20-2012 at 07:30 AM.

  5. #30
    Registered Users TuckMiddle's Avatar
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    Default "I really love this bike and if I didn't, I wouldn't be riding it."

    After 3 back operations and lots of arthritis and a right shoulder and hip falling apart, I decided I needed a trike instead of a HD Road Glide, Dynx FXDX, Helix scooter and 4 other old Hondas. Sold all but the Helix and Honda Magna and Road Glide over a 6 month period. I was going to trike the RoadGlide, but HD and GW trikes, in my humble opinion, don't begin to have the handling qualities and some of the features of a Spyder and are more expensive. Why is that, you ask? Because they can!!!! One ride on my RT - yea, they let me ride a new shiny, out of the box, never molested Red RT - and I bought it. I'm a HOG through 2012, so I ride Big Red a lot with them. The Cartersville, GA HOGS are great people. I have never had one negative remark about my Spyder. Some have ridden it, virtually all have asked intelligent, probing questions and all continue to be friends, even the dealership manager.
    Like most Spyder owners, I get questions all the time while at ther pump. Maybe four morons have been almost hostile, including one Spyder jerk. I went over to say hello and he ignored me. So, I said "hi, I've got a Spyder and just wanted to say hello." "Get the hell away from me, I just want to be left alone and buy gas!" After saying something about his being stupid and born in a litter of puppies, I walked away and shook my head.
    So, the Q remains, why did the HD dude go to the trouble to sign on and then write the unusual post. His Q is somewhat similar to the one we get a lot "How/why do you like it?" My standard response has become "I really love this bike and if I didn't, I wouldn't be riding it."

    Tuck

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyliec View Post
    Bob D.,

    Sometimes you are so good; right to the point.
    Wylie,
    I just kind of figure (in my own funky little way!) that even if you're trying to look like a rebel; if you look just like everybody else who is trying to look like a rebel... It's just a another herd of sheep...
    2010 RT A&C, RT-L, RT-L , Orbital Blue, Cognac, Jet Black

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by spydee owner View Post
    I participated in a fundraiser ride for prostate cancer in June.
    At the end of the ride, I parked the spyder in the shade beside two harleys (roadkings).
    When I talk to someone else -even if I am not keen on what they are riding - I never insult them.
    This roadking owner came over and said "when I see these spyders on the road, I ask myself WHY?" I could have asked him why he has streamers all over his bike. If people took the same opinion he had toward my spyder when a Harley was basically a bicyle with an engine, he would not have his roadking today.
    Many of these Harley owners are so into the Harley image that they seem to have blinders on when it comes to seeing another riders perspective.
    I have owned motorcycles before, and may again, but I have to say the spyder is just downright fun to ride. When you sit on it and look down at the side pods it looks like your riding a cross between a formula one car and a rocket.

    I also agree with arntufun, this guy with the Harley said he was being respectful, but every word in his post was insulting especially to anyone with a disability. This guy is most likely a troll and should be blocked! He deserved every negative response he got.




    ,
    but out of respect for Lamont I deleted my post.

  8. #33
    Registered Users dannymax's Avatar
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    Well, it does seem like an odd question.....WHY?

    Why does anybody do anything....why is there air?

    But to answer the question....I ride a Spyder cause I like 'em.....and I can....what other reasons could there be?.

    Probly the most common reason any folks do whatever it is that they do....cause they want to.

    "There's an ass for every seat!"
    '09 SM5, Hindle pipe, K&N, sport rack, backrest, Givi shield EVO swaybar, Symtec grip heaters, Spyderpops belt guard....some other stuff.

    Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it,
    Be afraid of the one saying 'To Whom it May Concern'!

  9. #34
    Registered Users Mspiv's Avatar
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    I agree with Lamonster! I found no disrespect in this persons inquiry.

    I ride a Goldwing and will till I no longer can, than I will Spyder.

    My wife Rydes the Spyder. Before the Spyder she had never touched a throttle and honestly I do not think she could do the 2 wheel thing due to size, balance, and break/clutch/throttle coordination. She took to the Spyder instantly. It got her off the back of my bike, greatly increased her confidence, sence of controll and self esteem ( way cheaper than a shrink).

    No handicaps or infirmaries here but if there were, what better avenue for wind In the face.

    By the way, I have had HD riders cross parking lots to ask about handling and conering and speed. I have had them taking picture of it. I know several HOGs from VT who are intrigued and excited to know and see Lady Bronze on her Spyder.

    Long story short, What ever one rides/Rydes, we do it for the same reasons, the same sensations and the same experience. WE ARE NO DIFFERENT.

    ENJOY THE WIND AND THE SMELL
    Duck
    Michael Spivack
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    2014 RT Limited Cognac (purchased 5/2/14)
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    Cup holder, Spyder Backrest, 2012 CB and Gerbing outlets
    GWRRA
    Cape Cod, Ma.

  10. #35
    Member SpyderCop715's Avatar
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    Default It's a fun thing.

    I got my 1st trail bike at 14 and rode every chance I got till I was 24. Owned a lot of different 2 wheelers and loved each one for there own reasons. For one reason or another I haven't been able to ride since I was 24, but now at 55 I have had my RTS for almost a year now and Love it. My wife and I just rode in the 13th annual Police memorial rally, where we rode with over 1500 bikes. Almost all Harley's, there were 4 spyders including ours. When we arrived we were put off to the side and figured, OK we are going to be put in the rear. To our surprise we were very well received with many people asking to sit on my RT to see how it felt. When the ride started we where directed to the Middle of the pack, we had a Police escort for the whole ride and only had one incident. As we were coming in for the first leg it had just rained and a 2 wheeler hit his front brake in a curve and went down. Luckily he wasn't hurt. My wife took 121 pictures and all I can say is we had a blast. We had no problem with weather and were treated very well by all involved. This is just one instance. Spyder riders get together all over the country and just ride, It's a fun thing!
    One think about riding a 2 wheeler. Have you ever been riding and daydreaming and just had a brain fart and forget to lean in a curve, ever hit a slick spot and hit the ground, ever pull up to a red light and forget to put your foot down and then embarassingly try to pick the bike back up. There are many reasons why we ride spyders, but I always come back to my main reason. It's a fun thing! As you said one day you will probably own one and when you do then you will know why we ride them.

  11. #36
    Registered Users dannymax's Avatar
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    Post deleted
    Last edited by dannymax; 07-20-2012 at 08:20 AM. Reason: Post deleted
    '09 SM5, Hindle pipe, K&N, sport rack, backrest, Givi shield EVO swaybar, Symtec grip heaters, Spyderpops belt guard....some other stuff.

    Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it,
    Be afraid of the one saying 'To Whom it May Concern'!

  12. #37
    Registered Users FANG's Avatar
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    First of all I will say thanks for your question and interest - but what people ride is personal. I had never ridden 2 wheelers when I was younger as parent wouldn't allow and then after I left home - married, kids and all never could afford it. So when the time came to beable to persue my dream of riding the open road I was 56 yrs old - loaded with arthritis and other medical problems. I went in search of the perfect motorcycle and while I was looking I checked out all different makes and models and one thing I noted was that for the most part Harleys were way more expensive than some comparable rides of other models. I finally had decided on a Honda 1800 not a Goldwing but with bags and other extras. Had taken the wife for the search and while I looked at the 2 wheels, the salesman guided her to the Spyder - it was new May 2008. I found my dream ride in the Honda but the wife said if you wnat me to ride with you we will consider this. I went home an researched it and then bought it a month later. We both got our Motorcycle Endorsements before we made the purchase (on 2 wheels). I will say that it is a great ride I would not want anything different. It was my choice; as Harley is yours. I say if you want to know what Spyder Owners feel they try one take a Demo ryde. But we are all different and I woulld say each to his own - just enjoy your ride!!
    Bill
    Very Happy Spyder Owner

    Gulf Coast Spyder Ryders -- look for us in the Ryder Group/Club shortcut on the homepage.

    New Ryders always welcome!!!



  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rattigan_Roger View Post
    Sure I've always had a two wheeler, but this was like a snowmobile I could drive on the interstate.
    Better than the Boa Ski??
    2010 RT A&C, RT-L, RT-L , Orbital Blue, Cognac, Jet Black

  14. #39
    Active Member qasamm's Avatar
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    I ride on 3 for comfort. Comfort from knowing I will be seen better than on 2. Comfort from knowing I have added stability and safety- I can concentrate on enjoying the ride, not constantly looking for hazards that would put 2 wheels down (gravel, wet spots, slicks, etc.).
    Comfort of knowing my family is not as worried every time I hit the road. Comfort of knowing I have somewhere to put things when I'm out. Comfort of knowing someone will not simply roll away my ride.

    Yep, I have 2 wheels and always have but don't enjoy it the same way I do on 3.
    Sam Mancuso

    Our "his and hers" Spyders. Read more about them at theotherwheel.com


  15. #40
    Very Active Member daveinva's Avatar
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    37 years old, best shape of my life , happy as can be atop my Spyder.

    I can ride two wheels. I *want* some other bikes as soon as I have the disposable income to buy them. I want a cafe racer, I want a sport bike, I want an adventure bike in my garage. Some days are vanilla, some days are chocolate, whatever we choose, it's all ice cream.

    But my commuting/touring ride will still be the Spyder. Too much practicality, too much relative safety, too many smiles to give that up. These things are FUN, they just get in your blood.
    Silver 2010 RS SE5: Triple Play, Taillight, Brightsides, Fender Tips, Easy Risers; Evo Sway Bar; Airhawk R & Beadrider; latch springs; Grab-On grips; Crampbuster; 24" Madstad smoke windshield & deflectors; N-R round bag & soft saddlebags; BRP handlebar bag; Throttlemeister; Spyderpops Missing Air Dam & Air Mgmt System; Rivco driver & passenger boards & pegs; ISCI parking brake extension; Ultimate Midrider Seat w/both backrests, Fox Racing Shocks, Yoshi R-77 exhaust and a whole lotta love!

  16. #41
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    For me, we bought it to ride together - 2-up. I had a 2 wheeler way back before I was married, and may have considered 2 smaller bikes for us to ride, but when I looked at the Gold Wings and other touring bikes, the weight and size was more than I was comfortable with, especially with my wife on the back. The Spyder gives us the enjoyment we were looking for with the reduced risk.

  17. #42
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    I know its just a question. Everyone has a right to ask a question but I never really understand these kinds of question. Why would someone care what another chooses to spend their money on. Or why they choose one vehicle over another. And if we did, what a boring world this would be.

  18. #43
    Registered Users Leta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ga Blue Knight View Post
    Speaking for myself only and not for the general owners of the Spyder I can say that after riding two wheelers for over 35 years the Spyder is is the most fun I have ever had on two or three wheels. Let me explain, I have loved motorcycling for a long time, have owened BMW, Harley Davidson, Moto Guzzi and Ducati brands along with a slew of Japanese bikes. They were all great and different in their own ways. Some had issues that were a pain to deal with and others were unbelievable. So why do I ride the Spyder? It's fun! It handles differently but to me better than a two wheeler, and it allows me to take my wife with me on rides. Also as I get older (still fit, no issues that would keep me off of a two wheeler) I do worry about the drivers of cages more. When I started riding motorcycles in the 1970's the population of the US was around 170 million and no cell phones or texting. Now you have a population of over 350 million, lots of distracted drivers, increased aggression and a general disregard to sharing the road. I don't know about you but the days of riding cross country without seeing more than two or three other vehicles on the road are over. More and more we as motorcyclists of any type come off rather badley in an accident. The greater visibility, stability in all weather conditions and presence of the Spyder is a factor in why I am now on my second Spyder. I would not go back to two wheels. I do not really mind what others think about me or my ride as long as they just leave me to my hobby without the need to try to convert me back. To each their own! Ride safe and often no matter what you ride!

  19. #44
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    I had wanted to ride a bike for many years, but I did not feel safe trying to hold it up. Plus all the horror stories of people getting severely hurt or killed when their bike went down. Water on the road, gravel on the road, etc. I feel safe on this bike (well as safe as you could possibly feel exposed to the wide open road). I don't have a bad back, bad knees, or any problem that would keep me from riding a 2 wheeler. Just love the bike! Who knows, if you rode one for a while, we could have a convert. My thoughts turn to the song "If you don't ride (Spyder), then you don't know". Thanks for your input. You didn't say anything we hadn't heard before.


    God Bless

  20. #45
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    I wondered about similar thing at a Harley dealership when I went into buy a face mask (wouldn't buy a bike from a clothing store if I was to get a 2 wheeler again)

    $38999 plus ttl plus $2000 dealer markup for CVO???
    I walked out of there laughing with the over-priced facemask wondering who would pay that much for this?

    Pretty much Only those who thinks you are not a rider unless you ride a Harley...

    Poster says "with respect" but I don't think there is a whole lot of respect.

    Well, you got the money and you fell in love with CVO, why not? It's your money but spyder is THE ryde for me with any number of wheels! Until there is something I like better...
    Last edited by aka1004; 07-20-2012 at 09:09 AM.
    6 states down 42 states to go

  21. #46
    Active Member Starrider's Avatar
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    After forty years of being off of two wheels my wife agreed to let me ride again. Got back into riding on a Honda Shadow 750. Soon upgraded to a V-Star 950 Tourer. First year of owning the V-Star we did a vacation trip to Gatlinburg with two other couples. After that trip and riding with friends better half thought she would like to ride on her own. The next spring she attempted MSC on two wheels and ended up dropping the bike and hurting her ankle. No two wheels for her but she still wnated to ride. Next option, bought her a Suzuki Boulevarde triked out with a Lehman trike kit. Great ride but for some reason she was scared to death of riding it over 40 mph. Sold the Suzuki and about that time along came the Spyder. She test rode it and thought she could get along with it. Rest of story, we got an '08 GS SM5, even though she at that time would have liked an SE. Did a few practice rides in th highschool parking lot and two weeks later we were on a trek out to Gatlinburg.

    Wife loves riding her Spyder. For my part I would like to also own one, it's a blast to ride, but until I am ready to part with the V-Star. As to the quesion, "Why a Spyder?". aour answer like many before is that they're a fun, safe ride.
    Spyder Mods: 23"ultra touring windshield, SpyderAttitude Exhaust, BRP fog Lights, Can Am Wind Deflectors, Kuryakyn ISO Grips, Pyle Amplifier w/wired remote, 4x6 Pioneer Speakers, Amber GlorRyders, Spyderpops Missing Air Dam, Joe Florida Amber Accent lighting, Misty Mountain Sheepskin Seat cushion, Custom Dynamics 4" Risers, Street Magic Highway Footrest Brackets,Spyder Footrests, Spyder Driver Footpegs, Spyder Brake Cover, Spyder Shifter Cover, Can Am Hard Bags

  22. #47
    Very Active Member bullant12's Avatar
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    Here is my 2 cents worth:

    Quote Originally Posted by harley rider View Post
    First of all I am not trying to put anyone down by any means... However I just don’t get it.
    You don't have to. We like s, you like Harleys. Same plane of thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by harley rider View Post
    Why a 3 wheeler "unless handicapped"? I understand the open road and all, believe me i do. But I just don’t get why you would spend the money on these bikes or a trike for that matter unless you are physically in need of one.
    Quote Originally Posted by harley rider View Post
    But i am seeing so many people that have these things for their first motorcycle "if you want to call it a bike" and i don’t understand, why? Is it that you just can’t grasp the concept of 2 wheels? If so cool, still want to enjoy the open road, cool. But what is it?

    In my case, I don't feel secure in 2 wheels going 50+ MPH... So this is what I get. And I like the way it looks and the features.

    Quote Originally Posted by harley rider View Post
    IMO you shouldn't even need a motorcycle endorsement on your lic. for this...
    I disagree and here is why: My wife and I took the MSF course on a 2 wheeler and a lot of the things we learned we have enhance and put into practice on our s. In fact, I believe that it made us better riders because of it. And many people (particulary first time riders) have issues with their because they have little or no experience riding at all. So I believe that state's should require MC endorsement if you are going to be riding on the open air (i.e. non-cager).

    And thanks for not insulting us. I think that your questions are valid and hope everyone's answers can make you understand our love for these machines, just like you love your Harley and being on 2 wheels.
    May all your encounters with the law begin with the words: "nice trike!".[/B]
    2015 Can-Am Spyder F3-S SM-6 Can-am Red/Black SM-6 with 2010 Black RT-622 trailer (hitch in the works).

    Previously owned:
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    2013 Can-Am Spyder RT-S SM-5

  23. #48
    magical member harrypottar's Avatar
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    Red face

    I read the original post slightly different. They took the time to register and type out a question, seem to me, despite what they say that they're on the fence.

    If I totally dismissed a bike brand/model I would not post on that makes forum, I would just moved on.

    Sounds like they've giving it a lot of thought and not sure if they should like it or not. When I was looking to trade a lot of my fellow riders asked me why and stated some of the same, 'they for old or disabled riders'.

    I posted here looking for Spyder riders input on why they ride and I got great feed back, obviously as I ended up getting the RT.

    I have seen many times where people have first hated some thing and ended up with one. My own first opinion of the Spyder was very much like the OP's, I hated it, thought it looked like a lawn mower going down the road, I made comments to my wife and friends that I wouldn't ride one unless I was too old to hold up two wheels. Now look at me, can not get enough of the Spyder, absolutely love it.

    So to the OP;

    You have to look at the Spyder slightly different, obviously is not two wheels but it is a great bike to ride. I'm 48 in great health, been riding bikes since I was 12 both in Europe and here in the states. Started on dirt bikes, then went into street legal mopeds, trust me being governed to 35mph is no fun but still my friends and I went all over the England, from coast to coast. I had a lot of bikes in my riding years, Vespa's, Yamaha's, Suzuki's, Honda's and Kawasaki. Scooters, cruisers, sports, touring bikes etc. I traded my last ride, a 2006 Goldwing for the Spyder RT and have not regretted it once.

    The Spyder is different its not a knee grinding bike, but it is still great fun in the twisties and absolutely great for touring. A good comparisons already made by Lamont is comparing a dirt bike to an ATV. I have ridding both and both are great fun, I still have ATV's (no dirt bikes any more), I ride in Maine and New Hampshire with my sons and have a blast. I'm biased as most will be on here, most own a Spyder already or are looking into one, but I have to say this is most fun I had for years. I have been riding for over 35 years and was starting to get board, been there done that sort of attitude. The Goldwing last year stayed mostly in the garage and I even started to wonder if I wanted to carry on ridding any more.

    I may still be in the honeymoon phase but the Spyder as given me a new lease on ridding. Went to Americade, Laconia, Magog not too mention all the local riding I have done this year already. Been ridding with a group of New England riders through Connecticut, Rhode island, New Hampshire etc and its been a blast. I've had no issues riding through Vermont Mountains with trailer in tow keeping up with two wheelers. This is just different enough to be just darn right fun, its a great feeling that I can not explain. I bought mine for the shear excitement I felt ridding it, all the safety features are great but I would have bought it with out ABS and the stability control. The fact there built in is great but was not factored in when I made my mind up.

    See if you can get an extended test ride on the RT and keep an open mind, you may have a blast. Remember owning a bike is not for life, you can trade up, down, side ways at any time. In a perfect world with unlimited funding I would have kept both the Goldwing and bought the RT. But to be honest if I had a choice to ride either as I leave the house, my choice would be the Spyder.

    In the end if the Sypder is not for you so be it, if every one like the same thing it would make for one boring world. If your Harley is your dream bike then your very lucky as you already own one. I think I have found my dream bike and I'm lucky too, it is sitting in my garage right now. I have not yet met anyone as been totally negative about the Spyder, some have said its not for them but most have stated it looks fun.

    ride safe.

    harry
    "Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus"
    My Rides;
    Nimbus 2000, Ford Anglia, 2012 Spyder RT Limited, Pre 14 Vintage Classic Collectors Edition!

    Favorite Ride;
    Nimbus 2000 boy this thing can fly.

    Mods:
    Charm of invisibility, Reparo Charm (cuts down on service cost)

    One always wonders about roads not taken.



  24. #49
    Very Active Member
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    The O.P. has been completely absent from all of this...
    2010 RT A&C, RT-L, RT-L , Orbital Blue, Cognac, Jet Black

  25. #50
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    Man this thread is growing like wild fire. Some really nice responses but without the OP back i am begining to suspect Troll myself. Will give it a few days before i totally decided. If troll is the case i suspect this is not the flame fest the were hoping to create. A few have been upset by the questions i totlly understand that. Interesting forsure. I wait for more.......


    Josh

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