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  1. #1
    Senior Member Motogordo's Avatar
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    Default STATIC on the AM radio. FM is fine. #2

    August 17,2011

    I am still trying to find a solution for all the static I get on AM. I have the 2011 RTS/SE5 and like it very much. The FM stereo is perfect, but not the AM. When I am idling, I don't get the static. As soon as I start to move the static starts. So far, no one has come up with the answer. I addressed the problem with Carlo at BRP, but haven't heard back yet. I also spoke to the BRP dealer and they too are waiting for a response. I thought it might be a bad ground connection, but service said it would also effect the FM, which it doesn't. Any ideas ?

    Gordon

  2. #2
    village idiot Rattigan_Roger's Avatar
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    Here's my best guess:
    The signal from the hall effect speed transducer located on the rear wheel is being picked up as static when in AM mode.

  3. #3
    Senior Member MMcc's Avatar
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    I also have that problem. When riding I can reach back and grab/ touch the antenna and it goes away for a while. It is very bad when road is bumpy. I figured it was a bad connection at the antenna and would have the dealer look at it when he does my 600 service. Please post solution when found.

  4. #4
    Senior Member dancogan's Avatar
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    Disclaimer: this is not my area of expertise. But that doesn't stop me from talking ... AM is far more susceptible to static than FM. It could come from something like a defective spark plug wire, a plug wire that isn't plugged in all the way, or possibly from something you added to the bike after purchase. Just thinking ...
    Dan

  5. #5
    village idiot Rattigan_Roger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcc View Post
    ....When riding I can reach back and grab/ touch the antenna and it goes away for a while. It is very bad when road is bumpy.
    Opinion:

    When you grab the antenna you are effectively attenuating the signal (making the radio less sensitive) the radio circuitry responds by increasing the amplification of the signal and the static returns.

    It is true that any electrical abnormality can cause static on AM. The BRP radio installation appears to me not to have been thoroughly thought out for AM on the rolling chassis with all the electrical noise that is generated by the transducers (speed, yaw & etc.) and maybe heavy current users like DPS.

    The fix is not simple on this one I'm afraid.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Motavar's Avatar
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    (friendly little shot over the bow to the RT guys...)

    AM RADIO!! YOU RT guys are still listening to AM radio.. hahahahhahahahaha
    Do you guys hand-crank the engine to start the RT as well?

    Luckily the aggressive performance styling of the RS doesn't allow for AM signals to penetrate our airspace. Thats why they didn't add that ancient AM technology to the RS platform

  7. #7
    Senior Member Y Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motavar View Post
    (friendly little shot over the bow to the RT guys...)

    AM RADIO!! YOU RT guys are still listening to AM radio.. hahahahhahahahaha
    Do you guys hand-crank the engine to start the RT as well?

    Luckily the aggressive performance styling of the RS doesn't allow for AM signals to penetrate our airspace. Thats why they didn't add that ancient AM technology to the RS platform
    There is a very large audience out there for Talk Radio formats. With talk there really isn't any reason for stereo seperation and with AM frequencies the coverage is larger. Especially for the 50KW stations. Now with AM HD (High Def) even stereo sounds really good on the AM band. (However, it takes a HD radio to receive it.) So don't write off AM radio yet.
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  8. #8
    village idiot Rattigan_Roger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y Rider View Post
    There is a very large audience out there for Talk Radio formats. With talk there really isn't any reason for stereo seperation and with AM frequencies the coverage is larger. Especially for the 50KW stations. Now with AM HD (High Def) even stereo sounds really good on the AM band. (However, it takes a HD radio to receive it.) So don't write off AM radio yet.
    IMHO

    AM radio isn't sustainable and the HD (hybrid digital) is just propping up a dead cat for a nice photo.

    Pod casts of the Talk Radio giants will be the coming thing.
    None of them really like to take calls.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Motogordo's Avatar
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    Default Static on AM

    Quote Originally Posted by Rattigan_Roger View Post
    IMHO

    AM radio isn't sustainable and the HD (hybrid digital) is just propping up a dead cat for a nice photo.

    Pod casts of the Talk Radio giants will be the coming thing.
    None of them really like to take calls.
    I noticed when listening to 1210 AM or any other talk show, the hosts just talk on and on for 90% of the time. Once in a blue moon they let someone else have the floor. LOL. I really only wanted AM for some news and weather. Of course, I forgot that NOAA is on there also. Thanks for all your opinions. I haven't tried checking out the antenna as far as a possible loose connection goes. Do I have to take the trunk apart to get to it or just remove the rubber boot. I am concerned about breaking all the Tupperware parts. LOL. I just noticed from the Green Manual CD I purchased a couple of weeks ago, that you have to lift out the trunk by removing 6 screws, including 4 in the side compartments.
    Gordon
    Last edited by Motogordo; 08-19-2011 at 05:19 PM. Reason: Adding info.

  10. #10
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    Default AM static grounding need

    well to start looking for bad ground hard to do but take your time. on my rts found 3 bad grounds and the INTanad needs better ground. ran a 18g wire to frame and ckeck all frames grounds and now works better. also put a better int in it place not steal but glass iant works well the long the int better you will get am. hope this helps..PS.. we are still in canada still riding to thr rock in NF lane the to usa and back to west for home by nov we hope. seya all

  11. #11
    aka Gargoyle Mr Orange's Avatar
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    Remember AM is your storm detector band. FM has tried to steal the technology but the AM guys wont give up the patents.

  12. #12
    Mod Monster Phil's Avatar
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    Roger---

    What about static electricity while the bike rolls? When he touched the antenna and it got better for awhile.... he drained the static potential off??
    IF that is the problem, the next question I'd what's causing it on his ryde vs others being not so bad.
    Just thinking out loud.


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  13. #13
    village idiot Rattigan_Roger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motogordo View Post
    I noticed when listening to 1210 AM or any other talk show, the hosts just talk on and on for 90% of the time. Once in a blue moon they let someone else have the floor. LOL. I really only wanted AM for some news and weather. Of course, I forgot that NOAA is on there also. Thanks for all your opinions. I haven't tried checking out the antenna as far as a possible loose connection goes. Do I have to take the trunk apart to get to it or just remove the rubber boot. I am concerned about breaking all the Tupperware parts. LOL. I just noticed from the Green Manual CD I purchased a couple of weeks ago, that you have to lift out the trunk by removing 6 screws, including 4 in the side compartments.
    Gordon
    As far as checking for a bad antenna connection, if your FM works well then your antenna connection is Okay since AM/FM use the same antenna.

    Everyone has valid points here bad grounds and such can and do happen.
    A bad ground is bad standing still or moving.


    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    ....
    What about static electricity while the bike rolls? When he touched the antenna and it got better for awhile.... he drained the static potential off??
    IF that is the problem, the next question I'd what's causing it on his ryde vs others being not so bad.
    Just thinking out loud.
    ....
    That could be.
    My money is still on the bevy of transducers that chatter away while moving.
    I hooked a scope up and it does look like ground on these things is real noisy or maybe I have a bad ground too.
    It seems to me a bad ground would cause operational problems other than just static on the radio.

    I've had my radio on exactly twice.
    Once at the dealers and once to show my wife it had one.

    Remember static strips?
    Back in the era of Spotlights and necker nobs you could buy copper strips that attached to the frame and skidded along the ground to drain off the static electricity.

    Maybe that's another niche market for Spyderpops?

  14. #14
    Mod Monster Phil's Avatar
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    Ha! I DO remember those dragging strips!

    I need to fire up my AM soon and listen in my helmet you're likely right on the sensors, ignition, etc. But you'd think that a company that builds receivers for mobile environments would work with the mfg of the vehicle to note and isolate noise generators.


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  15. #15
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    On my 2011 RT I had significant static AM only. FM fine. After checking the electrical system with no noted problem, the dealer called BRP, and was instructed to add a new ground wire. The static did not go away completely, but it was substantially reduced and I am satisfied. I can listen to talk radio now.

  16. #16
    Mod Monster Phil's Avatar
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    Nikon- would you mind asking your dealer for some details on where that wire was added, please.


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  17. #17
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    I emailed the service manager at Riva MotorSports in Pampano Beach, Florida this evening and I am awaiting his response. I will let you know what I find out...hopefully in more detail than I shared already. The dealer did call BRP for the fix and there was a lot of trial and error. We'll see what they say.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    Nikon- would you mind asking your dealer for some details on where that wire was added, please.


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    According to the service manager at Riva, the tech ran a ground wire fm the battery to the coil. It worked ok for my RT. I hope this helps to reduce or eliminate your static.

    Dave

  19. #19
    Mod Monster Phil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikon View Post
    According to the service manager at Riva, the tech ran a ground wire fm the battery to the coil. It worked ok for my RT. I hope this helps to reduce or eliminate your static.

    Dave
    Makes 100% logical sense. Thanks Dave!


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  20. #20
    village idiot Rattigan_Roger's Avatar
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    hmmmm

    There is a wire going from coil to ground on my Spyder and I'm pretty sure I didn't put it there because the installation looks neat & proper.

    I thought the static we were discussing occurred only while the Spyder was moving.
    Since the coil fires all the time I'm having difficulty seeing how a wire, coil to ground, would help that situation.

  21. #21
    Motorbike Professor NancysToy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rattigan_Roger View Post
    hmmmm

    There is a wire going from coil to ground on my Spyder and I'm pretty sure I didn't put it there because the installation looks neat & proper.

    I thought the static we were discussing occurred only while the Spyder was moving.
    Since the coil fires all the time I'm having difficulty seeing how a wire, coil to ground, would help that situation.
    I tend to agree with this, in principal, but remember that the rpm increases significantly when a vehicle is moving, so static could seem to increase when moving. Relating the static to engine speed or road speed would be the best way to differentiate.

    Grounding the coils and oil coolers on the Spyder was instituted via a service bulletin, to correct shifting problems with some SEs. It is standard practice now. The coils are grounded to the frame, and not directly to the battery, though.
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  22. #22
    village idiot Rattigan_Roger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NancysToy View Post
    I tend to agree with this, in principal, but remember that the rpm increases significantly when a vehicle is moving, so static could seem to increase when moving. Relating the static to engine speed or road speed would be the best way to differentiate.

    Grounding the coils and oil coolers on the Spyder was instituted via a service bulletin, to correct shifting problems with some SEs. It is standard practice now. The coils are grounded to the frame, and not directly to the battery, though.
    Could be.
    Still at 1400 RPM, the spark duration is longer than at 4000 RPM and it could be argued,but I won't, that this would be a more a static prone environment especially since the static reported isn't the classic rpm whine.

    FM is reportedly OK and that indicates to me something other than coil interference.

    I dunno.


    EDIT: Maybe spark duration isn't longer at lower rpm than higher, I'll have to look into that.
    Last edited by Rattigan_Roger; 08-25-2011 at 08:06 AM. Reason: second thoughts playing fast & loose with facts

  23. #23
    Motorbike Professor NancysToy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rattigan_Roger View Post
    Could be.
    Still at 1400 RPM, the spark duration is longer than at 4000 RPM and it could be argued,but I won't, that this would be a more a static prone environment especially since the static reported isn't the classic rpm whine.

    FM is reportedly OK and that indicates to me something other than coil interference.

    I dunno.


    EDIT: Maybe spark duration isn't longer at lower rpm than higher, I'll have to look into that.
    There are a lot of confusing things about both the problem and the "fix". I personally like your theory about the noise generating sensors, although I don't know how a CANbus based system could function iwell n such an EFI-rich environment. Maybe the plastic bodywork generates static electricity as it moves through the air? Not sure how one would go about testing that theory...LOL.
    -Scotty
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  24. #24
    village idiot Rattigan_Roger's Avatar
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    the high level of noise could be by static caused by the coil,I don't really know.
    It looks like spark duration is not dependent upon rpm.

  25. #25
    Banged Up Member MouthPiece's Avatar
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    Isn't Professor Irwin Corey was dead?

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