I think this proves itself...

[fleegeds]

Slippery slope? Please don't be paranoid and this has nothing to do with Independence Day...come on...nobody in uniform has died for our country protecting car or motorcycle rights...this is a simple safety issue...like seat belts, anti-lock brakes, airbags, car seats, etc...

A flaw with your argument is that underage drivers DO pay more for insurance...why? Because it's been proven they're far more dangerous behind the wheel. You know those actuarialists? They're good at this stuff...it's also been proven that not wearing a helmet leads to far more problems.

I don't mind if people don't want to wear a helmet...just do it on your own dime. I don't want taxpayer money or insurance money (because our premiums go up) covering someone who is now not functional and in a hospital for years...this is a case of it's nobody's fault but your own.

For me, it's the same with cigarette smoking. We all know the hazards...if you smoke and get lung cancer, too bad...take care of yourself. It's nobody's fault but your own.

What is wrong with personal responsibility? I don't understand... One reason this country has major issues is because anytime something happens, it's someone else's fault. People need to be responsible for their actions...period!

This is right on... (not to distract from the banter)

Freedom with Responsibility

You choose you pay. Yes I know other people will miss them but that is also part of there decision. Removing freedom to stop people from being stupid is never going to fix things and just make life harder for everyone else.

child safety on lighters and med is good, they are too young to understand the ramifications of there decisions, but when we try to out law stupidity it is never going to happen.

[wyliec]

Great debate Bob. In my area we have had many LEO's that have got in trouble lately from a variety of different offenses, so it has left a bad taste in my mouth about LEO's thinking they are above the law. One Trooper accually ran over a guy I knew during the night off duty and kept going. The person that he hit body parts were found underneath his truck. The only reason he got caught was, the troopers girlfriend called the cops on him when they got home. The trooper is claiming that he was already dead when he hit him. BS he wasn't dead already !! So I hope you can understand my opinions of LEO's.

This I find interesting. I'm checking with my daughter. She usually tells me this type of stuff. Her husband is a Trooper and I'm curious as to the disposition of this case.

[arntufun]

This I find interesting. I'm checking with my daughter. She usually tells me this type of stuff. Her husband is a Trooper and I'm curious as to the disposition of this case.

Here is the article about it. He was not lying in the road like the tropper said. He was walking on the side of it. lying Trooper. I'm sure his cop buddys will help get him out of it. Link below.



http://blog.timesunion.com/crime/tro...accident/8139/

[Bob Denman]

I can't believe that this almost proves my point... here we have an obvious poor choice for a career in law enforcement and you seem pretty willing to paint all Police; even the good ones, with the same broad brush.

Kind of like when a motorcyclist does something stupid (Or a hunter... or someone who is left-handed ...), and everybody takes it in the neck as a result.

Thanks for the link!

[arntufun]

I can't believe that this almost proves my point... here we have an obvious poor choice for a career in law enforcement and you seem pretty willing to paint all Police; even the good ones, with the same broad brush.

Kind of like when a motorcyclist does something stupid (Or a hunter... or someone who is left-handed ...), and everybody takes it in the neck as a result.

Thanks for the link!

Your probably right. I'm painting with a broad brush. I still thing your awesome bob !!! By the way, I'm left handed ! LOL

[IWN2RYD]

This is a horrible topic. Nothing but wounds and emotional responses ever come of this.

But you know what. This fella should be covered. Otherwise then new "Restrictions" will be added.... OOPS... You fell off the back of your porch that was built in 1991? Sorry no coverage, you should have had up-to-code balusters installed. "Denied"...

That said. How many here absolutely hated when your County or State made the helmet a ticket-able offense? Then Law?

Now how many of us in that group (I was one of them) have seen accidents, colleges, friends, family or what have you, get hurt or die but you know in your heart that had that person(s) been wearing a helmet would be less injured or alive today? Or heck, feel Blessed with the gift of life because you lived when not wearing a helmet during a motorcycle accident? That is me as well.

We went through this same back and forth when seat-belts became a ticket-able offense and then Law. Yes some folks that got ejected in an accident lived. Now how many of those today do we see? Not many. Most feel bad because had they of been seat-belted they may have lived.

The amount of data is overwhelming to the fact that Helmets save lives. Period.

As far as I am concerned, it is the same as a seat-belt. You want to drive a car. Wear one. If you want to ryde a motorcycle type vehicle, wear a helmet and protective gear.

If not, do your ryding on private property and stay off the roads my tax dollars pay for.

[Bob Denman]

Your probably right I'm painting with a broad brush. I still thing your awesome bob !!!

Gosh... I can feel the man love... scary...

[qasamm]

I wear a helmet just in case there is an afterlife. I do not want to hear "I told you so" from my wife, mother, son....

[Firefly]

No time to read all over responses--- but how did this guy cost anyone a dime on medical bills? If he had been wearing a helmet *maybe* he only would have been brain damaged and required 24 hour care for the next 30 years.

There's no good proof either way on this.

It's a personal choice- plain and simple- just like seat belts should be for adults.

Now, if my MC insurance company wants to charge me more because I don't wear a helmet then so be it. This is what they used to do with seat belts.

[boborgera]

Now, if my MC insurance company wants to charge me more because I don't wear a helmet then so be it. This is what they used to do with seat belts.

They charge more to tobacco users also.
Hey, They charge more for sport bikes.

[bone crusher]

No time to read all over responses--- but how did this guy cost anyone a dime on medical bills? If he had been wearing a helmet *maybe* he only would have been brain damaged and required 24 hour care for the next 30 years.

There's no good proof either way on this.

It's a personal choice- plain and simple- just like seat belts should be for adults.

Now, if my MC insurance company wants to charge me more because I don't wear a helmet then so be it. This is what they used to do with seat belts.

In this case, the guy was DOA...however, not all head impacts result in death...if they did, insurance companies wouldn't be as concerned...sad to say, but true. The cost to insurance companies is far greater in head impact injuries if the rider is not wearing a helmet...I don't think you want to argue that helmets do not protect the head from serious injury. It's like the seat belt laws...sure, there are exceptions, but the vast majority of the time, they protect/save lives. How about air bags and child seats...same with these too...care to argue that child seats should be a personal decision too?

I know you can't legislate stupidity, but you can make it so the rest of us don't have to pay for these people. Be responsible...period!

Hey, if people want to ride without a helmet, let them...just make them personally responsible for any head injury (if they do survive). This is fair. You are playing the odds and they are not in your favor. Don't ask the house to cover your losses (like my analogy??)

[Bob Denman]

I DO like your analogy!
...but that just ain't gonna happen given the current "climate"...

[bone crusher]

I DO like your analogy!
...but that just ain't gonna happen given the current "climate"...

yeah, sad...eh?

[Fire911]

Let'em ride like they want. I believe in natural selection and government intrusion has messed up the whole thing.

I wear mine 99.99999% of the time, but I want to protect the 1/4 million I spent for whats in my head. I have seen my share of accidents and it goes both ways, sometimes the protection Helps and sometimes it doesn't.

I use to skydive, race motorcycles and oh yeah....go into burning buildings....on purpose. Does that mean I can't do those things anymore unless I up my insurance? The fire department, police departments, and Armed Forces will have trouble getting volunteers if the public stops covering things that MAY get you hurt.

It is interesting to hear peoples ideas, but most don't look forward enough to see the consequences.

[bone crusher]

Let'em ride like they want. I believe in natural selection and government intrusion has messed up the whole thing.

I wear mine 99.99999% of the time, but I want to protect the 1/4 million I spent for whats in my head. I have seen my share of accidents and it goes both ways, sometimes the protection Helps and sometimes it doesn't.

I use to skydive, race motorcycles and oh yeah....go into burning buildings....on purpose. Does that mean I can't do those things anymore unless I up my insurance? The fire department, police departments, and Armed Forces will have trouble getting volunteers if the public stops covering things that MAY get you hurt.

It is interesting to hear peoples ideas, but most don't look forward enough to see the consequences.

Really, can you go into burning buildings without gear on or a mask/helmet? Can you go into battle without any protective gear? Does SWAT voluntarily wear bullet-proof vests?

[SteveMac]

OK. I am a little confused here. Are you for or against wearing helmets?

Really, can you go into burning buildings without gear on or a mask/helmet? Can you go into battle without any protective gear? Does SWAT voluntarily wear bullet-proof vests?

[BajaRon]

Really, can you go into burning buildings without gear on or a mask/helmet?

Well, you can, but if you're working for any fire service I know it will be your last day on the job, if you make it out alive.

If we were found to be operating any vehicle while on duty (even our own) without having the seat belt properly fastened it was an automatic 10% pay reduction for 6 months. That was the 1st offence. I don't know what the penalty for 2nd offence was and I don't know anyone who got it twice.

I hated wearing seat belts and I was pretty put off when they implemented this policy. But it got to be so automatic I do it now and never even realize it. That kind of pay cut was a real motivator.

It's not so much that I thought it was a bad idea to wear my seat belt, I just didn't like someone telling me I had to. But if you don't like someone telling you what to do and how to do it, the fire service is not for you.

Would you like to hear the penalties for not wearing gloves, helmet, etc., on any hazardous assignment?

[Bob Denman]

Look at how we're venturing into a much broader arena with this discussion...
Well I don't care! They're NOT gonna make me put a condom on when showering!!

[spyder3]

"Well I don't care! They're NOT gonna make me put a condom on when showering!!"

[SteveMac]

Look at how we're venturing into a much broader arena with this discussion...
Well I don't care! They're NOT gonna make me put a condom on when showering!!

TMI Bob. Way way TMI!!

[bone crusher]

OK. I am a little confused here. Are you for or against wearing helmets?

My point is that certain professionals have to wear helmets due to their work environment...this should be the case with those who ride a motorcycle. However, if people want to literally take such a great risk, and they legally can, let them be 100% responsible for any head injury they sustain...

[bone crusher]

"Well I don't care! They're NOT gonna make me put a condom on when showering!!"

Um, I'm a little lost here...why the condom when in the shower? What am I missing? Or better yet, maybe it's good that I miss this...