Harley Trike

[Desert Spyder]

I have a friend at church who recently took possession of a new Harley Trike and she is learning the skills for its safe operation. She is an experienced quadster but I don't think thats going to help her here. She admits to being timid on the freeway especially around the big rigs. I told her to stay far to the left and haul butt so the draft don't bother you. We have a group ride coming up in about a month which she would like to go on. As the R/C, the safety of my group is paramount. I told her the trikes will be in the back to start off with and that its the rear of the group that actually sets the speed ... within limits. That being said I'm told the conventional trikes can be a little unstable in the turns and there might be two of those on this run. The Spyders can go through the twisties like no other. With that in mind, what advice would you have for me, and her, in the safe op of her trike in the twisties, and my pace. I don't want to make it too slow. I will split the group in half if it gets too big, but that presents another question, how big is too big. I would like to keep this thread alive till those attending Spyderfest get home. But on the other hand, this can be VERY useful info for them while in Cuba as well.

[Bob Denman]

I really hate to suggest this... maybe this isn't a ride that she should attend yet?
She needs to build up her confidence in both her and her bike's abilities... If there are some twisties on this ride and she's not yet sure of what is and isn't safe...
Is there any way that she could pre-run your planned course to get a feel for it under her own pacing? If this Harley is her new pride and joy then you really don't want to rain on her parade by telling her how it "can't turn" or is "unstable..."

Sorry... Just my opinion... Maybe somebody else can offer something to help get ehr through the ride.

[mjw930]

I really hate to suggest this... maybe this isn't a ride that she should attend yet?
She needs to build up her confidence in both her and her bike's abilities... If there are some twisties on this ride and she's not yet sure of what is and isn't safe...
Is there any way that she could pre-run your planned course to get a feel for it under her own pacing? If this Harley is her new pride and joy then you really don't want to rain on her parade by telling her how it "can't turn" or is "unstable..."

Sorry... Just my opinion... Maybe somebody else can offer something to help get ehr through the ride.

There's only one problem, It can't (turn) and it is (unstable).......... I can't remember the number of times I've seen Harley and GoldWing trikes on 2 wheels (unintentionally) even as their owners INSIST they can ride any pace 2 wheelers want to take

I've told more than a few acquaintances who were ready to pull the trigger on a Harley trike to test ride the RT. Most either stay on 2 wheels or buy the RT.

[Dragonrider]

Find your local MSW Trike & Hack class & TAKE IT!!!!!!!!! There's no other way to quickly gain (some) confidence for trike riding.

Taking that class made me a Spyder rider...

[Bob Denman]

[QUOTE=mjw930;312836]
There's only one problem, It can't (turn) and it is (unstable).......... QUOTE]

You and I know that, but is it fair to rain on her parade? If you can find a way to help her learn the limitations (without beating her up over it...) I'm sure that she'd appreciate your efforts.

[SpyderWolf]

Find your local MSW Trike & Hack class & TAKE IT!!!!!!!!! There's no other way to quickly gain (some) confidence for trike riding.

Taking that class made me a Spyder rider...

This is something you really need to suggest to her.

A trial run with just the two of you might be a good idea, but there is a good chance she could get into some serious trouble on that run as well. It will be a hard call, but until she has some real experience under her belt she should probably avoid the group rides.

[IWN2RYD]

All these post so far or perfect. I would start with the class if possible. They are really something special

[Pennyrick]

I agree that the lady ought to get more time on the trike alone before she starts running with a group.

I do not agree that trikes are unstable.

I ride a GL 1800 Gold Wing trike and my wife rides an RT. We don't carve through corners like we used to thirty years ago on our two wheelers but we are far from sedate tourers.

We have a lot of twisties here in the north Georgia mountains and I find my Wing to be just as stable as her RT as we enjoy these roads. After riding her RT several times the only major difference I see is that her machine has a softer ride (she likes it set that way) and it has a much larger turning radius than my Honda.

rickrae

[IWN2RYD]

I agree that the lady ought to get more time on the trike alone before she starts running with a group.

I do not agree that trikes are unstable.

I ride a GL 1800 Gold Wing trike and my wife rides an RT. We don't carve through corners like we used to thirty years ago on our two wheelers but we are far from sedate tourers.

We have a lot of twisties here in the north Georgia mountains and I find my Wing to be just as stable as her RT as we enjoy these roads. After riding her RT several times the only major difference I see is that her machine has a softer ride (she likes it set that way) and it has a much larger turning radius than my Honda.

rickrae

Just want to add... Put 15 people in a training class that have no Motorcycle experience and watch them flock to the Spyder RT over the Trike and the Sidecar.

For beginners the Spyder RT is easier to adapt to (IMHO) because it is setup similar to a car, yet has motorcycle attributes.

When we took our class (2.5 day course) It was suggested that they may create an entirely new class for the Spyders because they eliminated so many challenges that the other types can experience. They felt using the RT in the training is critical as it is our Bike of choice, but yet made the course for the most part a non-event.

In fact... To prove a point on this. They have a timed course for the final exam. We must complete it by a certain time. According to the trainers (One being a Master Trainer and designer of the course) my wife broke the all time record with no fouls, and fastest time. This all time record was including all of the trainers they put through the course on a regular basis. Now my wife had never driven a bike on the road in her life until this particular weekend. Good news is four of our members here not only witnessed it, but have never let me forget it either

[ARtraveler]

with all the above. Many of you know that I am in an organized club and my specialty is working with new riders. There are some here who are against organized rides--but let's get past that here, since the question was about how to make the ride above safe, for the new rider.

MSF (motorcycle safety foundation) publishes group ride information--that is probably a good source for basic information.

Up front, here are some suggestions.

Someone should mentor the new rider. Go on some pre-rides, find a slower road with twisties, and let her ride at her own pace--with a chase bike behind her. This allows the mentor to view, and offer suggestions from time to time.

Bike to bike helmet communication is very good if available. No cell phones please.

The new rider should be totally comfortable with the new bike and its operation at near highway speeds. More than five miles less than posted can get you into trouble with traffic. If she cannot maintain that speed safely and comfortably--she should have more practice before group riding.

Some group riding tips: (as requested)

Group size should be 8 or less (including a leader and sweep person). Less is probably better. Communication between leader and sweep is good, if possible.

A staggered formation is suggested for straight roads--a single file formation when you get to the twisties. At least 2 seconds between each bike--more if you feel you need more space.

Experienced riders for lead and sweep positions.

Newer riders to the back of the pack.

Group riding proceedures should be worked out prior to the ride and a safety meeting shoiuld be held, pre-ride.

MSF posts a set of hand signals so that all riders can communicate. Left, Right, Slow down, Speed up, obstacle left/right. Single file. Stop. Signal on, Police ahead, etc.

I hope that you can work all this out and have both a safe and fun ride. Safety is very important, and you should keep in mind that newer riders are the weakest link. Give them plenty of space and help. We were all begining riders at one time.

Finally, if it don't seem the rider is ready--its best to forgo a group ride or two until they are ready. Someone can ride with the new person as a group of two, and catch up at the destination.

Hope you find the information helpful.

[Raptor]

They have a timed course for the final exam. We must complete it by a certain time. According to the trainers (One being a Master Trainer and designer of the course) my wife broke the all time record with no fouls, and fastest time. This all time record was including all of the trainers they put through the course on a regular basis. Now my wife had never driven a bike on the road in her life until this particular weekend. Good news is four of our members here not only witnessed it, but have never let me forget it either

I was waiting for that one!

Seriously though, I would not feel too comfortable with this lady riding with a group yet. Sounds like she needs training and seat time. And this is no knock on her. It just makes more sense. You have to weigh the dangers of sparing her feelings and putting the group potentially in harm's way...

[SpyderWolf]

with all the above. Many of you know that I am in an organized club and my specialty is working with new riders. There are some here who are against organized rides--but let's get past that here, since the question was about how to make the ride above safe, for the new rider.

MSF (motorcycle safety foundation) publishes group ride information--that is probably a good source for basic information.

Up front, here are some suggestions.

Someone should mentor the new rider. Go on some pre-rides, find a slower road with twisties, and let her ride at her own pace--with a chase bike behind her. This allows the mentor to view, and offer suggestions from time to time.

Bike to bike helmet communication is very good if available. No cell phones please.

The new rider should be totally comfortable with the new bike and its operation at near highway speeds. More than five miles less than posted can get you into trouble with traffic. If she cannot maintain that speed safely and comfortably--she should have more practice before group riding.

Some group riding tips: (as requested)

Group size should be 8 or less (including a leader and sweep person). Less is probably better. Communication between leader and sweep is good, if possible.

A staggered formation is suggested for straight roads--a single file formation when you get to the twisties. At lease 2 seconds between each bike--more if you feel you need more space.

Experienced riders for lead and sweep positions.

Newer riders to the back of the pack.

Group riding proceedures should be worked out prior to the ride and a safety meeting shoiuld be held, pre-ride.

MSF posts a set of hand signals so that all riders can communicate. Left, Right, Slow down, Speed up, obstacle left/right. Single file. Stop. Signal on, Police ahead, etc.

I hope that you can work all this out and have both a safe and fun ride. Safety is very important, and you should keep in mind that newer riders are the weakest link. Give them plenty of space and help. We were all beginnig riders at one time.

Finally, if it don't seem the rider is ready--its best to forgo a group ride or two until they are ready. Someone can ride with the new person as a group of two, and catch up at the destination.

Hope you find the information helpful.

Great advice on the question that was asked.

[Spyder Cat]

A trial run with just the two of you might be a good idea, but there is a good chance she could get into some serious trouble on that run as well. It will be a hard call, but until she has some real experience under her belt she should probably avoid the group rides.

I've done one-to-one riding in more than one occasion, especially with new riders.
That's resulted in some really long trips at 20 to 35mph . . . . but ya just can't rush experience.
Putting someone in a position to be pressured to ride beyond their abilities is just asking for trouble, and nobody wants that.

The safety course would be a great suggestion. . . . and practice, practice, practice.... just get out there and ride safely.

[Desert Spyder]

I sure wish this lady had bought the Spyder instead. It really sounds like the conventional trike is not too high on the safety scale. Ironically 6 mos ago she and her then husband were going to get a pair of Spyders with their tax refund. One divorce later and she got the HD-T instead. Go figure. Oh well. Thanks everybody.

[wolfshead1]

Having a 2010 Harley Tri-Glide and ridden many Spyders maybe I can clear up a couple things.First one is stability,the TG is very stable.I wonder if I could get it up on two wheels.It is also great in headwinds and crosswinds.The Spyder is one heck of a ride but the TG beats it in MPG,resale,durability.

That young lady just needs saddle time,enough saddle time to believe you can power out of trouble.Big trucks are menacing when riding beside them,makes one feel pretty inferior.That's why they make a throttle.I always keep a cushion of highway around me if I can.If not I find it helps to watch the front wheels on the rig beside me,stay in their mirrors and a headlight modulator and good tail lighting helps a bunch.

I like riding so much I want everyone to enjoy it,it just takes seat time.

T K

[IWN2RYD]

Having a 2010 Harley Tri-Glide and ridden many Spyders maybe I can clear up a couple things.First one is stability,the TG is very stable.I wonder if I could get it up on two wheels.It is also great in headwinds and crosswinds.The Spyder is one heck of a ride but the TG beats it in MPG,resale,durability.

That young lady just needs saddle time,enough saddle time to believe you can power out of trouble.Big trucks are menacing when riding beside them,makes one feel pretty inferior.That's why they make a throttle.I always keep a cushion of highway around me if I can.If not I find it helps to watch the front wheels on the rig beside me,stay in their mirrors and a headlight modulator and good tail lighting helps a bunch.

I like riding so much I want everyone to enjoy it,it just takes seat time.

T K

Huh? The RT has been out for one year. How can you even compare the two in this fashion yet? Let's go back and look at HD's first five years and compare reliability notes.

Not to mention HD just recently started to offer their Trike from HD and has to work with a third party to do so.

No one was questioning the stability as far as I can tell. Like anything else experience is what makes good riders. Not necessarily the bike itself. We almost bought one ourselves because they are so stable. But when you slow down and learn about all the safety features/storage/factory bells and whistles the RT has vs. any other production bike on the planet... The choice is easy.

Now let's talk cost. With the money saved (In the thousands) on buying a RT instead of a TG I think it more than covers it.

Resale seems to be similar. And does vary depending on the time of year and demand in a particular area.

So lets give these bikes at least five years before we start comparing reliability and resale.

[mjw930]

Having a 2010 Harley Tri-Glide and ridden many Spyders maybe I can clear up a couple things.First one is stability,the TG is very stable.I wonder if I could get it up on two wheels.It is also great in headwinds and crosswinds.The Spyder is one heck of a ride but the TG beats it in MPG,resale,durability.

That young lady just needs saddle time,enough saddle time to believe you can power out of trouble.Big trucks are menacing when riding beside them,makes one feel pretty inferior.That's why they make a throttle.I always keep a cushion of highway around me if I can.If not I find it helps to watch the front wheels on the rig beside me,stay in their mirrors and a headlight modulator and good tail lighting helps a bunch.

I like riding so much I want everyone to enjoy it,it just takes seat time.

T K

See, I said trike riders would jump up and claim their rides were just as stable as a Spyder, didn't I?

Here's a question, you have an RT, a TG and a GL Trike all going down the road at 60 mph. Something pulls out and you need to make an evasive manouver which involves turning left (or right) at as close to 90 degrees as you can manage, you are also hard on the brakes. Which of the 3 would you rather be on? Or should I say, which of the 3 won't want eject the rider and passenger or hit the obstacle?

ALL Trikes are INHERENTLY unstable, it's a fact that no one can dispute. The Spyder counters that with sophisticated electronic stability control coupled with ABS brakes, none of the others do. They may be stable enough for you and that's great but for an unseasoned rider I think it's irresponsible to put them on any other 3 wheeler. That's my personal belief, not trying to pick a fight. Personally, I'd never own a 3 wheeler without stability and traction control.

[Firefly]

See, I said trike riders would jump up and claim their rides were just as stable as a Spyder, didn't I?

Here's a question, you have an RT, a TG and a GL Trike all going down the road at 60 mph. Something pulls out and you need to make an evasive manouver which involves turning left (or right) at as close to 90 degrees as you can manage, you are also hard on the brakes. Which of the 3 would you rather be on? Or should I say, which of the 3 won't want eject the rider and passenger or hit the obstacle?

ALL Trikes are INHERENTLY unstable, it's a fact that no one can dispute. The Spyder counters that with sophisticated electronic stability control coupled with ABS brakes, none of the others do. They may be stable enough for you and that's great but for an unseasoned rider I think it's irresponsible to put them on any other 3 wheeler. That's my personal belief, not trying to pick a fight. Personally, I'd never own a 3 wheeler without stability and traction control.

The basic physics of two in the front trumps a traditional trike too. No way a traditional trike can keep up with a Spyder.

Newbies shouldn't ride in groups IMO.

[wolfshead1]

You know I really like the Spyder,will own one someday but the TG is really really stable and an enjoyable ride.

Could someone here do a search and see which one is really safer by counting the fatalities and critical injuries of both vehicles?BTw the TG has only been made since 2009,with HD making the whole machine late in 2010.

[Bob Denman]

I don't know if a fair comparison can be made... The Tri-Glide appears to be aimed squarely at the touring crowd, while the Spyder (RS.GS at least!) might be more sporting-oriented. They'll appeal to different types of operators, so that alone will color the results...
A very good friend of mine has a TG and I've ridden it... ... (but I prefer my RT!)

[Desert Spyder]

The basic physics of two in the front trumps a traditional trike too. No way a traditional trike can keep up with a Spyder.

Newbies shouldn't ride in groups IMO.

Not disagreeing per se but we were all newbies once, especially with the Spyder. Its kinda like the job vs the experience. You can't get the job because you have no experience. How do I get the experience unless I get the job?

It will be a small group, probably 8-10, with half on open stretches of road, some on city streets, and some on mild twisties. It would be an unChristian act to exclude her especially since its a church function.

Forgive me, but would the circumstances be different if she was a newbie on a Spyder?

I know of very experienced Spyder ryders who absolutely terrify me. On the other hand I know of very experienced ryders who you are always waiting on. And I might be one of them when compared to the spyder jockeys but I've been called a jockey by the cautious ones

Ryde according to your experience is half the story. Ryding for your desire is the other half.

[RAL]

Having a 2010 Harley Tri-Glide and ridden many Spyders maybe I can clear up a couple things.First one is stability,the TG is very stable.I wonder if I could get it up on two wheels.It is also great in headwinds and crosswinds.The Spyder is one heck of a ride but the TG beats it in MPG,resale,durability.

That young lady just needs saddle time,enough saddle time to believe you can power out of trouble.Big trucks are menacing when riding beside them,makes one feel pretty inferior.That's why they make a throttle.I always keep a cushion of highway around me if I can.If not I find it helps to watch the front wheels on the rig beside me,stay in their mirrors and a headlight modulator and good tail lighting helps a bunch.

I like riding so much I want everyone to enjoy it,it just takes seat time.

T K

Your Harley is a cool machine but take it for what it is. Stability...more so than other trikes maybe if you say so. More than a Spyder aaa not so much. You hit a decreasing radius down hill curve a little too hot and you will not question if it will come up on two wheels and beyond.
Enjoy it for what it is but do not think for a moment that it does not share the same limits that other trikes have, physics cannot be cheated
Experiance is a great teacher but having a mentor is better. Short of having a mentor a class is the next best option, she should take the class it is money well spent.

RAL

[Desert Spyder]

Your Harley is a cool machine but take it for what it is. Stability...more so than other trikes maybe if you say so. More than a Spyder aaa not so much. You hit a decreasing radius down hill curve a little too hot and you will not question if it will come up on two wheels and beyond.
Enjoy it for what it is but do not think for a moment that it does not share the same limits that other trikes have, physics cannot be cheated
Experiance is a great teacher but having a mentor is better. Short of having a mentor a class is the next best option, she should take the class it is money well spent.

RAL

You mean the other person not me. I'm a Die Hard Spyder Lover! Yeah baby!

[SpyderWolf]

Forgive me, but would the circumstances be different if she was a newbie on a Spyder?

Not in my opinion.

Until someone has a decent amount of experience under their belt they should avoid riding with large groups. Of course a lot depends on the group, but many times they may end up pushing their skill set in order to keep up with everyone else. I have been on many rides where they wind up having an accordian effect because of people not maintaining proper distance, racing up to the machine ahead and then braking.

I know during one of the Kawasaki Ninja demo rides in Daytona a 20 year old male attempted to keep up with the leader of the demo ride. He lost control in a turn and flipped the Ninja a couple of times. The only protective gear he had on was a helmet, and luckily he walked away with only bruises after going down at a speed above 55. It is also fortunate that the riders following him were able to avoid hitting him as well. I wonder how much that experience ended up costing him in the end?

[Desert Spyder]

One lucky fellow....