ESI HMT Brake Light and 'Pulse-On' Effect

[SilverSurfer]

I am looking at purchasing the ESI Cycle Products HMT Brake Light for my ’10 Spyder RT-S. What is missing is a way to cause the HMT Brake Light to pulse on ‘X’ number of times then hold, as is the case when installing ESI's Wake-up module. I only wanted the effect on the HMT Brake Light; not the main brake lights on my RT.

However, Evan at ESI tells me that ESI's wake up module is not even designed for use on the RT; only the RS (I asked because the installation instructions on the ESI site are only written for the RS).

Meanwhile, I found a BRAKE LIGHT FLASHER LAMP MODULE from KapscoMoto (as seen by clicking link). The unit is built to handle input/output between 6 and 24 volts. Note the video at the bottom of the web page where it shows the function of the unit installed on a car. Cool aye? This is the effect I wanted for my RT with the HMT unit. I asked ESI (Evan) about this solution and about which color lead running into the HMT Brake Light I should join this unit.

Evan/ESI's response: "We can't comment on this other company's product being compatible with the HMT or the Spyder's Can Bus system. So we do not recommend using it in this untested manner with our HMT product. You may find if you are willing to risk your own time doing the R&D it may work just fine. However, you may also find it will cause problems with the Spyder CAN Bus system and other costly failures."

I internalized that 'grr' frustration one gets when seeking a simple solution just leads to dead ends. As to Evan's statement, all I can say is that the KapscoMoto unit appears completely passive. Reviewers are saying they're using it on scooters, motorcycles and cars. It's tiny, and appears to simply be a passive in-line system that would hook in between the input from the brake pedal/switch, and the HMT brake light. As to potental "problems or other costly failures" involving ththe CAN (Controller Area Network) Bus system, I had to raise an eyebrow insofar as how all the other ESI components (I have the brightsides, mudflap lights and fendertips, all integrated into my turn signals) are perfectly fine with the Spyder's CAN Bus. Then too, ESI markets a wake-up module for the RS that basically does the same thing, and the RS's CAN BUS seems fine with that. Therefore, I am reaching out to LaMonster and other Spyder RT bretheren to see if they've ever ventured into this issue and arrived at a solution.

I am not sour grapes with ESI or Evan, but ... *drat!* The HMT brake light (at $239.00) is a perfect application for the RT and, as many say, should have been designed into the Spyder RT in the first place. However, I've seen the pulse effect applied to top tail and top case lights on other machines and it so enhances the attention-getting factor when applying the brakes.

Experienced thoughts and comments welcome!

[NancysToy]

Evan is right to be cautious. The brake light system is monitored on the Spyder, and CANBus systems are notorious for being very sensitive to switching of electrical loads. The only answer is just what ESI recommended...buy the components and be the Guinea pig. If you don't want to take the risk, you will just have to survive somehow. It is doubtful anyone else has tried this combination...or even an equivalent. Best of luck, and please let us know how things work out.

[SpyderFun]

I can understand the concerns Evan (ESI) makes. However without trying it out no one will ever find out if it works. Electrical bus systems are a bit more sensitive than "old school wiring". That said, I would try to contact the mfg and ask them if it is compatible with the Spyder and its bus system.

It does look like a straight forward connection.
Step 13 of the ESI HMT installation instructions say: "Using supplied Posi- Lock connectors from kit, connect wires from HMT unit to harness coming from tail light. There are 3 wires coming from the harness; an orange, a red and a black. Hook the red wire from HMT to the orange wire from harness if you want the HMT as a running light Or hook red wire from HMT to red wire from harness if you want HMT to function as a brake light. Hook black wire from HMT to black wire from harness."

The orange wire is for use as a "running light" only while the "red wire" is used for braking and the "black wire" is common for both applications. So connect as desired and then test to ensure it works as planned.

[IWN2RYD]

Keep in mind... Even the wrong LED replacement (Going from the factory bulb) for the RS Tail Lights cause issues. These are computer operated vehicles and then some. I do think there is a piston or two in them though

[ThreeFeet]

I think Bumblebee has those. When I was behind her on a ryde I didn't know if she was TURNING or STOPPING. The flashing really confused this old 2 celled brain!!

[SilverSurfer]

I wanted to thank everyone for their comments and insight.

I would like to continue dialogue with Mr. Orange and I'll also check with BumbleBee. In the meantime, however, the over-riding consideration is to err on the side of caution. I note Orange and Bee both have RS's. Evan/ESI seems to allude that the RS has a variance on the CAN Bus load, or it could just be that the RT-S by design has a few more doo-dads n' lights linked into the CAN Bus. So, without being an electrical engineer, it's possible that (even if correctly hooked in) over-application of a pulse/wake-up module could be a bit more than she can handle. But then again, it just hasn't been tested on anything. Me no guinea pig. Either another (braver than I) RT-S owner will surface with a successful adaptation, or ESI will come up with something (Evan, ya listenin'?) to accomplish the task. In the meantime, I'll just get the HMT brake light. I'd urge those of us who would like to see ESI come up with a pulse-on thingy for the HMT/RT Brake Light communicate with ESI and insist on it!

My intent, btw, is to hook it in as brake light only, vs. dual (running and brake) because its attention-getting effect for those behind is more pronounced (off-to-bright, vs. bright-to-brighter).

Best,

~ Surfer

[InspectorGadget]

I have installed 2 $6.00 Wal-Mart LEDs that I use for my additional brake lights, and they along with the standard brake lights are controlled by a brake light modulator. When one of my other RT Spyder buddies saw it he just had to have the same setup.
When I went to the Signal Dynamics website and tried to find the modulator again, some reaserch showed that they now have one for LEDs. My original was on the Honda Shadow which did not have LEDs but the modulator seems to be working just fine so far in spite of the fact that it is controling LEDs.
I ordered the modulator designed for the LEDs for my buddy and installed it. There is a choice of flash patterns with this new unit, but it is working just fine with no computer hangups on either of our RTs.
Good Luck Have Fun and Ryde Safe C-YA RL

http://signaldynamics.com/index.php?...hk=1&Itemid=77

[NancysToy]

I wanted to thank everyone for their comments and insight.

I would like to continue dialogue with Mr. Orange and I'll also check with BumbleBee. In the meantime, however, the over-riding consideration is to err on the side of caution. I note Orange and Bee both have RS's. Evan/ESI seems to allude that the RS has a variance on the CAN Bus load, or it could just be that the RT-S by design has a few more doo-dads n' lights linked into the CAN Bus. So, without being an electrical engineer, it's possible that (even if correctly hooked in) over-application of a pulse/wake-up module could be a bit more than she can handle. But then again, it just hasn't been tested on anything. Me no guinea pig. Either another (braver than I) RT-S owner will surface with a successful adaptation, or ESI will come up with something (Evan, ya listenin'?) to accomplish the task. In the meantime, I'll just get the HMT brake light. I'd urge those of us who would like to see ESI come up with a pulse-on thingy for the HMT/RT Brake Light communicate with ESI and insist on it!

My intent, btw, is to hook it in as brake light only, vs. dual (running and brake) because its attention-getting effect for those behind is more pronounced (off-to-bright, vs. bright-to-brighter).

Best,

~ Surfer

The biggest difference between the RS and the RT is that the RS has incandescant brakelight bulbs, while the RT uses LED modules.

[SilverSurfer]

I have installed 2 $6.00 Wal-Mart LEDs that I use for my additional brake lights, and they along with the standard brake lights are controlled by a brake light modulator. When one of my other RT Spyder buddies saw it he just had to have the same setup.
When I went to the Signal Dynamics website and tried to find the modulator again, some reaserch showed that they now have one for LEDs. My original was on the Honda Shadow which did not have LEDs but the modulator seems to be working just fine so far in spite of the fact that it is controling LEDs.
I ordered the modulator designed for the LEDs for my buddy and installed it. There is a choice of flash patterns with this new unit, but it is working just fine with no computer hangups on either of our RTs.
Good Luck Have Fun and Ryde Safe C-YA RL

http://signaldynamics.com/index.php?...hk=1&Itemid=77

Installing the Backoff Module XP onto my Spyder RT this weekend. My plan is conservative. I plan to only integrate the B/O module into my HMT brake light. Question: To what did you ground the module? I want a separate ground point on the frame for the module, and not tap into anything on the main harness to the tail/brake lights.

Thanks!

Paul

[johnnyrocket]

Installing the Backoff Module XP onto my Spyder RT this weekend. My plan is conservative. I plan to only integrate the B/O module into my HMT brake light. Question: To what did you ground the module? I want a separate ground point on the frame for the module, and not tap into anything on the main harness to the tail/brake lights.

Thanks!

Paul

I just got the wiring to hook up the running lites to my HMT brake lite. After a few miles of riding the check engine and limp mode lite came on. I turned the key off and back on but the check engine lite stayed on.I called the dealer who installed it and believe this or not he came down (55 miles each way)the next evening after they closed and hooked up his computer and found the fault to be the wiring they had installed. He removed the wiring and I took it for a 35 mile ride with no more problems.He said the wiring causes back feed making the computer (on the Spyder) think that the brake is being ridden causing the malfunction and the limp mode. So I am going to call ESI and see what they say. Meanwhile be warned about what could happen. I am not going to have a running lite on my HMT light. The ones on the fenders work great, I have had them on for about a couple of weeks.

[SilverSurfer]

Hey Rocket ... I'm a little confused. The HMT brake light comes with two hook-up modes ... It either run it as a brake light only (that's what I'm doing), or both a running light and a break light. It just depends on which wire (orange vs. red) one uses (NOTE: I mis-spoke here ... Caught by Nancy's Toy (blush) ... Corrected on Post #19, below). When you said, "I just got the wiring to hook up the running lites to my HMT brake lite," it threw me. There should be no extra wiring required to achieve a running light effect. It's all in the HMT harness. The HMT harness just drops in between connectors running from the brake switch to the tail/brake lights. It forms a terciary feed up to the HMT light.

If extra wiring was applied in your setup, I could well see that there could be a problem. Otherwise, the HMT Brake light was made for the RT and tested by ESI for the RT.

Do let me know if I'm misunderstanding what you wrote?

Thanks.

[dave01]

Mine has been used as a running light and brake light since ESI.came out with them, with no error codes. I would look to be sure all directions were followed correctly. Sounds like a wire got crossed somewhere.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

[SilverSurfer]

Yup

[NancysToy]

Hey Rocket ... I'm a little confused. The HMT brake light comes with two hook-up modes ... It either run it as a brake light only (that's what I'm doing), or both a running light and a break light. It just depends on which wire (orange vs. red) one uses. When you said, "I just got the wiring to hook up the running lites to my HMT brake lite," it threw me. There should be no extra wiring required to achieve a running light effect. It's all in the HMT harness. The HMT harness just drops in between connectors running from the brake switch to the tail/brake lights. It forms a terciary feed up to the HMT light.

If extra wiring was applied in your setup, I could well see that there could be a problem. Otherwise, the HMT Brake light was made for the RT and tested by ESI for the RT.

Do let me know if I'm misunderstanding what you wrote?

Thanks.

The HMT Brake Light, alone, will only work as either a brakelight, or running light, not both. You need the additional Dual Converter Module for dual function.

[Magic Man]

The HMT Brake Light, alone, will only work as either a brakelight, or running light, not both. You need the additional Dual Converter Module for dual function.

100% Correct Scotty!

Trying to hook it up as both without a 2 IN 1 converter will cause all kinds of problems.

MM

[SilverSurfer]

Good on ya, Nancy's toy. One does need the dual converter for the combo brake/running light. What I meant to say to Rocket was that it is either 'orange' for running, or 'red' for brake without the dual converter. Perhaps the dual converter is what Rocket was talking about. If so, it's difficult to understand what went wrong, i.e. something 'feeding' back through to affect the computer on his RT. ESI has its wiring so well modularized.

I (with the helpful extra hands/eyes of my nearby bud QASAMM) got my HMT Brake Light on today. Here's a twist: The ESI instructions have you doing everything on the right side of the Spyder. Makes sense ... the light cable hole drills in on the top-right of the rear top case exterior panel ... the cable feeds in there, etc. Well guess what! When I removed the upper fender trim (Step 6), and started looking for the harness ... It was on the LEFT side of the Spyder!?! That's right, the harness was on the opposite side from where the cable is supposed to run. All there was on the right side was a deep hole. What this meant was that I had to route the light cable across and under the outer trunk cover and bring it down on the left side. Fortunately, there's enough cable to use the feed tool to get cable down through the left-side antenna cable channel (even though there's no antenna on the left (yet)). The BIGGEST challenge, however, is that electrical harness is a few inches down in there, very little 'give' or leeway to pull it close, and with only the fender trim off, one plays hell trying to (1) get ahold of it, (2) undo it and (3) snap in the HMT light harness. We ended up taking a long heavy-duty twist tie, making a 'noose' of sorts to get around the lower part of the existing harness connector so it wouldn't slip away. With that in place, we undid the existing connector. Then it took about 20 minutes to get one's hand in just the right position, while maintaining upward pull on the "noose" and at the same time pressing on the ESI connector. I finally heard/felt it snap into place. "Whew!" It had to work ... we were past the point of no return ... because if we couldn't get the ESI connector snapped on, we weren't going to get the stock connector back on either. Alas, it ended as a high-five for Sam and I.

So again, the lessons learned: (1) Watch out ... because the tail light brake light harness on your RT may be on either the right OR left of the machine. If on the left, you have to drill the hole as instructed, but run the cable to the left side, under the outer trunk cover.

(2) At least on my Spyder, getting a grip on and holding the existing harness connector was a B$#CH! Be prepared to exercise some ingenuity and caution to find a way of holding it in place, while disconnecting it, connecting in the ESI harness, etc. For a few minutes, Sam and I were thinking I might need to remove the RT side case (Thank goodness we didn't hafta).

(3) ... And just something extra: make sure you leave some slack for the light cable to tuck into the channel on the front side of the trunk hinge. It works real well that way, and once tucked in, you can't even see it. Before re-installing the fender trim, use some electrical tape/twist ties to secure the loose parts of the HMT harness to a nearby cable run.

I'm posting this HMT install in RT Shop Talk as a separate item, as well.


Ride safe!

~ Surfer

[johnnyrocket]

Good on ya, Nancy's toy. One does need the dual converter for the combo brake/running light. What I meant to say to Rocket was that it is either 'orange' for running, or 'red' for brake without the dual converter. Perhaps the dual converter is what Rocket was talking about. If so, it's difficult to understand what went wrong, i.e. something 'feeding' back through to affect the computer on his RT. ESI has its wiring so well modularized.

I (with the helpful extra hands/eyes of my nearby bud QASAMM) got my HMT Brake Light on today. Here's a twist: The ESI instructions have you doing everything on the right side of the Spyder. Makes sense ... the light cable hole drills in on the top-right of the rear top case exterior panel ... the cable feeds in there, etc. Well guess what! When I removed the upper fender trim (Step 6), and started looking for the harness ... It was on the LEFT side of the Spyder!?! That's right, the harness was on the opposite side from where the cable is supposed to run. All there was on the right side was a deep hole. What this meant was that I had to route the light cable across and under the outer trunk cover and bring it down on the left side. Fortunately, there's enough cable to use the feed tool to get cable down through the left-side antenna cable channel (even though there's no antenna on the left (yet)). The BIGGEST challenge, however, is that electrical harness is a few inches down in there, very little 'give' or leeway to pull it close, and with only the fender trim off, one plays hell trying to (1) get ahold of it, (2) undo it and (3) snap in the HMT light harness. We ended up taking a long heavy-duty twist tie, making a 'noose' of sorts to get around the lower part of the existing harness connector so it wouldn't slip away. With that in place, we undid the existing connector. Then it took about 20 minutes to get one's hand in just the right position, while maintaining upward pull on the "noose" and at the same time pressing on the ESI connector. I finally heard/felt it snap into place. "Whew!" It had to work ... we were past the point of no return ... because if we couldn't get the ESI connector snapped on, we weren't going to get the stock connector back on either. Alas, it ended as a high-five for Sam and I.

So again, the lessons learned: (1) Watch out ... because the tail light brake light harness on your RT may be on either the right OR left of the machine. If on the left, you have to drill the hole as instructed, but run the cable to the left side, under the outer trunk cover.

(2) At least on my Spyder, getting a grip on and holding the existing harness connector was a B$#CH! Be prepared to exercise some ingenuity and caution to find a way of holding it in place, while disconnecting it, connecting in the ESI harness, etc. For a few minutes, Sam and I were thinking I might need to remove the RT side case (Thank goodness we didn't hafta).

(3) ... And just something extra: make sure you leave some slack for the light cable to tuck into the channel on the front side of the trunk hinge. It works real well that way, and once tucked in, you can't even see it. Before re-installing the fender trim, use some electrical tape/twist ties to secure the loose parts of the HMT harness to a nearby cable run.

I'm posting this HMT install in RT Shop Talk as a separate item, as well.


Ride safe!

~ Surfer

Ok, see if I can say this correctly. When I got my HMT light , I had them hook up for brake light only, because the extra 2 play wiring did not come with the order. After waiting to see if ESI could have the 3 way mod, (which they cannot on the RT) I ordered the 2 play wiring and had that installed, that's when I had the problems I discussed before. It maybe that it was installed wrong, however I have had no problem with dealers ability before, course any body could make a mistake. I think I will just leave it alone and use just the brake light which is really nice.I stll don't understand why BRP couldn't do this from the factory. Hope everything works good for your lights!

[GaryTheBadger]

I have a customer with a new RT-S who wants me to install the Customer Dynamics HMT brake/running light AND some kind of pulsing brake flasher.
Was the original issue in this thread ever resolved? Is there a reliable solution?

[scudrunner]

I hooked up a flasher to my HMT, works great. Flashes 3 times in 2 seconds then goes solid. Don't remember the brand off hand. THe first one I got did flash, but you couldn't tell. It just got a little dimmer. Be sure the one you get is made for LEDs.

[Magic Man]

We are almost done with our sesign and testing of a flasher unit for the RT's HMT.

Once the final unit is ready we'll post more.

MM

[AndyIsRiding]

Backoff-XP works on the spyder, LED and regular lights

http://store.valueaccessories.net/backoffxpbrakelightsignalmodule.aspx

I have it on ours.

[budro]

Check out the "tailblazer" tail light modulator. 100HD-M for the RT I am not sure about the RS---Budro

[canam9]

We are almost done with our sesign and testing of a flasher unit for the RT's HMT.

Once the final unit is ready we'll post more.

MM

Oh sure! Now you come out with this. It will be another year before I see you again.