Anti Vibration system on RS

[Batmobile]

I was wondering if anyone has had this installed, has inquired about it to dealer, what it might cost, and if it is available yet? I don't have a tremendous amount of vibration on my RS but my tendonitis flares up once in a while and anything that can help with that I am interested in.
Thanks,
Chris

[BajaRon]

I was wondering if anyone has had this installed, has inquired about it to dealer, what it might cost, and if it is available yet? I don't have a tremendous amount of vibration on my RS but my tendonitis flares up once in a while and anything that can help with that I am interested in.
Thanks,
Chris

This looks like a cosmetic upgrade (on the physical level). Though it may control engine torque better than the current system.

Something I've noticed about the Spyder, it gets a lot of, how shall I say it, undeserved complaints. I think this is due to the unprecedented number of people who purchase a Spyder as their 1st open air, motorcycle based vehicle.

What I mean is, riders with a fair amount of motorcycle experience would generally not complain about the small amount of vibration our Spyders produce, it's expected. Someone who has little or no motorcycle experience would tend to compare it to what they're used to. Like a car.

Compared to a car, the Spyder does vibrate. But you’re not straddling the engine in a car.

Compared to other motorcycles, the Spyder is very smooth.

The Spyder has less vibration than any other V-Twin (or twin of any kind) I've ridden. Even the BMW opposed twin has its vibration points. Granted, I haven't ridden them all, but still, I think you’ll find it compares quite favorably.

My Honda Valkyrie had less vibration, as would any 4 or 6 cylinder opposed engine. But the Spyder's vibration level is not that much different than the V-4 or 4 cylinder inline motorcycles I've ridden.

For me, the Spyder is surprisingly vibration free. I kind of like a little of the engine coming through to body contact points. For me it’s part of the motorcycling experience.

[jedd]

With BajaRon on this, however check to see where this concept originated. It has snowmobile (Ski-Doo) fingerprints all over it. This same concept was applied to sleds to aid in keeping proper pulley alignment and since the pulleys on sleds are clutches (Transmissions) this modification in a certain generation was a huge success. In our application I see little or no benefit of this modification, also on sleds it would increase the felt vibrations due to the direct linking of the motor to the chassis without a rubber type isolator. Our belt and pulley system is not a variable belt drive so a torque limiter would only be a benefit if our motors moved so much under load as to loosen or tighten belt, which I have yet to see our hear. I did see a new sponsor offering a spring loaded idler pulley for the drive belt that I feel would reduce drivebelt vibrations.

Jim

[Batmobile]

I came here from riding HD's so I am used to vibration and I am not complaining about the amount of vibration from my spyder. It's just that with my tendonitis less is better and if this would help I am for it. I thought maybe there was something to this if BRP spent money on research and then decided to install it on the 2011s and keep it on the RTs.

I am open to all opinions and I would appreciate knowing from experience or from an engineering point if this would be worthless to buy and install. I do hate spending money on something that has no benefit.

Thanks again,
Chris

[BajaRon]

I came here from riding HD's so I am used to vibration and I am not complaining about the amount of vibration from my spyder. It's just that with my tendonitis less is better and if this would help I am for it. I thought maybe there was something to this if BRP spent money on research and then decided to install it on the 2011s and keep it on the RTs.

I am open to all opinions and I would appreciate knowing from experience or from an engineering point if this would be worthless to buy and install. I do hate spending money on something that has no benefit.

Thanks again,
Chris

Understandable, and I was not dissing someone that wanted less vibration. Just trying to apply the apples to apples principal. But each individual has their own requirements.

Typically a torsion bar approach (such as this one) will achieve better engine torque control while transmitting less vibration to the frame (and thus to your body) than simply rubber mounting the engine bolts.

Sounds like they are borrowing technoligy and successful design from their snowmobile line.

If vibration is an issue, I'd certainly give this a try. I doubt that BRP would spend the money if it didn't make a tangible difference.

[MMcc]

Has BRP made this available for retrofit a 2008 GS/RS model? If so is it a kit that we can purchase? I would love to reduce the vibration on the spyder. I have installed the belt tensioner and that made a big improvement but I still have higher than I feel necessary handlebar vibrations.

[IWN2RYD]

This is our first RS. So other than a few test rides... It is hard to say. But I will say this... So far we have zero vibrations from the RS-S itself. Everything I believe we are feeling is road related, not bike...

Now this very well could be exactly what Baja is talking on. We could be so used to it that the ryde feels like a Cadillac compared to some other rydes of ours.

I will add... We put RT Shocks (Not the springs, just the shocks) and the ryde improved dramatically. Our RS takes the road lumps exactly like the RT did (We owned a 2010 RT-S last year) and that makes this ryde worth every penny spent on effort and cost for the shocks...

[BajaRon]

Has BRP made this available for retrofit a 2008 GS/RS model? If so is it a kit that we can purchase? I would love to reduce the vibration on the spyder. I have installed the belt tensioner and that made a big improvement but I still have higher than I feel necessary handlebar vibrations.

I would say that you'll probably have to order each part seperately. This coming from the experience of having ordered the RT shocks. You would think you could order the shocks (hydralulic unit, spring and adjuster) as a unit. Most manufacturer's will sell them this way. But not BRP. With them there is no assembled or composite shock unit. You get it only as individual parts which must be assembled. Very strange, but not much more than an inconvenience.

So no big deal as long as you don't miss something. If vibration is an issue, (depending on cost) this looks like the way to go. It will probably work better than anything else you try short of changing to a different power plant.

[jedd]

I came here from riding HD's so I am used to vibration and I am not complaining about the amount of vibration from my spyder. It's just that with my tendonitis less is better and if this would help I am for it. I thought maybe there was something to this if BRP spent money on research and then decided to install it on the 2011s and keep it on the RTs.

I am open to all opinions and I would appreciate knowing from experience or from an engineering point if this would be worthless to buy and install. I do hate spending money on something that has no benefit.

Thanks again,
Chris

I had a problem when I started riding my Spyder with my hands tingling or falling a sleep. I purchased a set or Throttlemeisters, weights that go in the end of bars and that absorbed enough vibes my problem was solved. I still have concerns that the linkage (Torque Rod) set-up will actually transfer more vibes to the chassis.

JMHO
Jim

[jedd]

I also noticed in the drawing it showed a improved rubber mount, maybe you could just replace rubber mount with new one and not add additional linkage rod?

Jim

[docdoru]

Could positively affecting the RS front sprocket issues?

[Firefly]

I had a problem when I started riding my Spyder with my hands tingling or falling a sleep. I purchased a set or Throttlemeisters, weights that go in the end of bars and that absorbed enough vibes my problem was solved. I still have concerns that the linkage (Torque Rod) set-up will actually transfer more vibes to the chassis.

JMHO
Jim

Same problem here. Couldn't ride for more than 45 minutes without hands going numb... mainly from my carpal tunnel problems... Throttlemeister made all the difference in the world.

Also helped to learn to LOOSEN YOUR GRIP on these beasts.

[BajaRon]

I also noticed in the drawing it showed a improved rubber mount, maybe you could just replace rubber mount with new one and not add additional linkage rod?

Jim

My guess is the "Improved" rubber mount is actually a softer material that, without the stabilizing rods in place, would allow the engine to move much more under load than the current system.

This would, of course, transfer less vibration to the chassis, but would give you fits with other critical functions with the motor moving too much.

Just conjecture, but is a logical assumption.

[BajaRon]

Could positively affecting the RS front sprocket issues?

I have been wondering the same thing. It may be less a vibration issue than too much front sprocket movement that BRP was actually addressing here.

If this is the case then I'm going to want this upgrade for sure.

[BajaRon]

I had a problem when I started riding my Spyder with my hands tingling or falling a sleep. I purchased a set or Throttlemeisters, weights that go in the end of bars and that absorbed enough vibes my problem was solved. I still have concerns that the linkage (Torque Rod) set-up will actually transfer more vibes to the chassis.

JMHO
Jim

Anything is possible, I suppose, But you'd have to ask yourself, why would BRP go to the additional time and expense to make the targeted problem worse. And after transferring more vibration to the chassis, tout the change as an improvement.

It sounds like BRP has borrowed this setup from working examples on their Snowmobiles.

Seems a safe bet that this would be a vibration improvement.

[NancysToy]

This is the same setup that BRP used on the RT model. It works OK there, although there were clearance problems with some installations that actually made the vibrations worse. If a person has a particular problem with vibration on their older RS, I would take a demo ride on an RT or 2011 RS before I made a decision on whether the new setup is worth the time, money, and (considerable) effort.

[jgwoods]

I only get noticeable vibration on my 2009 RS SE5 at certain middle RPMS and then only for about a 200-300 RPM band which I ride right through. If I lingered in the vibration zone, or was somehow forced to cruise there I would find it bothersome, but otherwise it is just an occasional buzzy moment and of no concern.
Do others have it worse than me?

I would be more specific as to when it happens but the snow has kept me off the road for a month! Last year I rode to work 3-4 days every week and never went a week without riding. Not so this year.

[Raptor]

This is the same setup that BRP used on the RT model. It works OK there, although there were clearance problems with some installations that actually made the vibrations worse. If a person has a particular problem with vibration on their older RS, I would take a demo ride on an RT or 2011 RS before I made a decision on whether the new setup is worth the time, money, and (considerable) effort.

Scotty, you read my mind! This anti-vibe system is of no interst to me personally, but if it were I have a good relationship with my dealer and I'm sure they would allow me to test a 2011 model to see what the difference is. The delta would have to be significant enough to warrant the cost of implementation. I am pretty sure these parts are not cheap and the install would not be something I would have the facilities to tackle at home, so it would be a major gamble to just do this without having a good idea of the result.

The only real vibration I feel is that confounded belt slap and I am going to address that with Cpt. Jim's Smooth Spyder tensioner. Well worth the price and a good solution to that particular issue I think.

[ataDude]

I only get noticeable vibration on my 2009 RS SE5 at certain middle RPMS and then only for about a 200-300 RPM band which I ride right through...

That is definitely the belt harmonics.

.

[NancysToy]

I only get noticeable vibration on my 2009 RS SE5 at certain middle RPMS and then only for about a 200-300 RPM band which I ride right through.

That is definitely the belt harmonics.

If the vibration is only at one particular speed, in any gear (at least the upper gears), it is typically belt related. If it occurs in every (higher) gear at the same rpm, it is more likely engine related.

[BajaRon]

This is the same setup that BRP used on the RT model. It works OK there, although there were clearance problems with some installations that actually made the vibrations worse. If a person has a particular problem with vibration on their older RS, I would take a demo ride on an RT or 2011 RS before I made a decision on whether the new setup is worth the time, money, and (considerable) effort.

Clearance problems don't mean the torsion bar system doesn't work. They have to have zero contact except for the attachment points to be effective. Clearance is another issue altogether, but something to check into before converting, for sure.

And I agree, amount of improvement always has to be weighed against expense and effort for any modification. It isn't uncommon for a mod to render less than favorable results.

Still, it sounds like the relatively small amount of vibration created by the Spyder is a real problem for some, and this could be a possible solution for them.

But I believe there is more differences in the engine isolation system between the RT and the RS than just the torsion bars and 'improved' rubber inserts, isn't there? If this is true, just test riding the RT isn't necessarily going to give you an accurate read on what this chance will produce.

The only reason I would even consider this mod is if it stabilized the engine enough to make a meaningful difference in the countershaft sprocket to rear sprocket distance. And I'm not sure that is even an issue with the original setup.

To me, the engine vibration on my Spyder is a non-issue. Now the belt vibration can be annoying at times.

[NancysToy]

Clearance problems don't mean the torsion bar system doesn't work. They have to have zero contact except for the attachment points to be effective. Clearance is another issue altogether, but something to check into before converting, for sure.

And I agree, amount of improvement always has to be weighed against expense and effort for any modification. It isn't uncommon for a mod to render less than favorable results.

Still, it sounds like the relatively small amount of vibration created by the Spyder is a real problem for some, and this could be a possible solution for them.

But I believe there is more differences in the engine isolation system between the RT and the RS than just the torsion bars and 'improved' rubber inserts, isn't there? If this is true, just test riding the RT isn't necessarily going to give you an accurate read on what this chance will produce.

The only reason I would even consider this mod is if it stabilized the engine enough to make a meaningful difference in the countershaft sprocket to rear sprocket distance. And I'm not sure that is even an issue with the original setup.

To me, the engine vibration on my Spyder is a non-issue. Now the belt vibration can be annoying at times.

I don't know if the islolation an torsion bar arrangement is exactly the same, but there are enough other differences in the RT and RS to make the RT a second choice as far as a comparison, for sure. The different engine characteristics and the heavier weight of the RT would make it hard to judge head-to-head, but if a 2011 RS demo wasn't available, I would see if an RT was enough different to pursue the matter further.

[BajaRon]

I don't know if the islolation an torsion bar arrangement is exactly the same, but there are enough other differences in the RT and RS to make the RT a second choice as far as a comparison, for sure. The different engine characteristics and the heavier weight of the RT would make it hard to judge head-to-head, but if a 2011 RS demo wasn't available, I would see if an RT was enough different to pursue the matter further.

There are some definite ifs on this one. I'd like to see the system installed and compare it to the stock configuration. It is an interesting option, if nothing else.

[jedd]

Quick question when we torque or load the engine, which way does the engine twist, does it tighten the belt or loosen. Only reason I ask is if it tightens the torque rod would help pulley as Doc stated, if it loosens the rod would in theory allow you to run with a looser belt which would help pulley also?? I know this started as a vibration concern but this mod. brings alot of other side effects with it

Jim

[BajaRon]

Quick question when we torque or load the engine, which way does the engine twist, does it tighten the belt or loosen. Only reason I ask is if it tightens the torque rod would help pulley as Doc stated, if it loosens the rod would in theory allow you to run with a looser belt which would help pulley also?? I know this started as a vibration concern but this mod. brings alot of other side effects with it

Jim

The affect of power transfer to the rear wheel from the countershaft pulley would be the major factor here and not engine torque (engine movement based simply on counter rotation of crankshaft spin).

In essence, when you apply power to the pulley, the top portion of the belt tightens and tries to drag the rear pulley into the front pulley. Which is exactly what would happen if there were no axle retaining the rear wheel.

So, power is forced through the belt to the rear pulley to the rear wheel and finally to the ground giving you forward accelleration.

I know you already understand this but if you apply just one more step the affect you're talking about becomes more clear.

Everything is bolted down, which is the only way you can get power from the engine to produce wheel spin. But as the front sprocket is drastically attempting to pull the rear wheel into itself, the rear wheel, by resisting this force, is also attempting to pull the front pulley rearward.

It is a tug of war. And as always, the weakest link will give first. In a perfect world, contact between the tire and the ground is the weakest link. It's called smoking your tire! (Much better than smoking your engine, smoking your clutch, etc.)

Now if the engine were not bolted down, it would simply be jerked into the rear wheel when you applied power (not recommended).

Of course the engine is bolted down, but in a way that allows some movement. And this is the source of the question. There are rubber components between the engine and frame for vibration prevention. This does not prevent engine vibration, it simply keeps that vibration (some of it anyway) from reaching the frame where it travels to body contact points. Feet, butt and hands.

Since the engine can move, it will move. The engine will move rearward because of the pull of the rear wheel, and it will twist sideways (counter clockwise looking down on the engine), for the same reason because the countershaft sprocket is located at the left, rear corner of the engine.

There will also be a downward pull at the countershaft sprocket because of the rotational method of power transfer, and there will be an upward pull on the countershaft sprocket because the rear sprocket is above the plane of the front sprocket. Which of these two forces will prevail is for someone smarter than I to determine.

So, if I am correct (and that is always in question), the engine (at the countershaft sprocket) would move rearward and to the right (facing forward). And possibly up or down.

How much? I have no idea. Is it a problem? I doubt it.

Interesting subject though.