Quest for More Power...

[Raptor]

So I was thinking last night- yup, not sleeping (again) the old mind was wandering (again)! Anyway, I was thinking "how can I do something that is going to deliver REAL power gains, not just superficial stuff?"

Well, I came across this:

Aprilia 1060cc +3mm Big-Bore Piston Kit (AF1-1060bigbore)




Aprilia 1060cc +3mm Big-Bore Piston Kit
Complete +3mm 1060cc big-bore kit - $999.99
Requires cylinder boring and Nikasil re-plating - $450.00(you must provide 2 good cylinders, 4 week turnaround)
With larger valve pocket reliefs, these pistons were specifically designed for the new big-valve 2006-08 engines. They will also work well in all 1998 and later Rotax 1000cc engines, including all RSVR, Mille, Tuono, Falco, Futura, and CapoNord.
These pistons are the same weight as stock, so no re-balancing is required.
Piston kit contains 2 pistons with rings/circlips, 2 OEM Aprilia base gaskets, and 2 special +3mm Cometic head gaskets

I have looked into it and this kit WILL fit into the V990. Of course, there is the whole tearing down of the engine, sending your cylinders in, the 4 week turn-around and all the re-assembly afterwards. But MAN this would add some power to the package, wouldn't it? I just wonder how hard it would be to get it tuned after all that? It would be a heck of a project!

[docdoru]

[dave01]

I can see it now. 1060 cc and a turbo. Now we are having fun.

[DragonSpyder]

There is also a high compression drop-in piston available. From what I understand the thing holding back the most power are the stock CAMS. Ken sells both the piston and aftermarket CAMS.

[Firefly]

There is also a high compression drop-in piston available. From what I understand the thing holding back the most power are the stock CAMS. Ken sells both the piston and aftermarket CAMS.

I'd go with what Ken sells--- someone who has actually DONE this to his Spyder. He's pretty much a Rotax engine guru.....

[Raptor]

I'd go with what Ken sells--- someone who has actually DONE this to his Spyder. He's pretty much a Rotax engine guru.....

Is this Ken "Evoluzione" Ken we are talking about here? Please pardon my ignorance if it is not. I have spoken with him a couple of times and he seemed pretty up on things. I was not aware that he has taken things with the Spyder to that degree. Of course if this is another Ken we are talking about then... well.. DOOH!! Rookies!!

[bjt]

Is this Ken "Evoluzione" Ken we are talking about here? Please pardon my ignorance if it is not. I have spoken with him a couple of times and he seemed pretty up on things. I was not aware that he has taken things with the Spyder to that degree. Of course if this is another Ken we are talking about then... well.. DOOH!! Rookies!!

I believe he is talking about Evoluzione Ken. He's the only Ken I know of that is a Rotax engine guru.

[tweeder]

thats all fine and dandy but what about the feeling issue? That monsters gonna need more fuel. I think it could be done with the power commander?

[Firefly]

Is this Ken "Evoluzione" Ken we are talking about here? Please pardon my ignorance if it is not. I have spoken with him a couple of times and he seemed pretty up on things. I was not aware that he has taken things with the Spyder to that degree. Of course if this is another Ken we are talking about then... well.. DOOH!! Rookies!!

Yup-- that is the Ken I'm talking about.... he's done plenty to his Spyder and was selling pistons and cams so you can increase your HP....

[SilverSurfer]

All through the "suggested improvements" threads, I've been hoping for a solution that doesn't turn my RT into a turbo'd RS.

What I want is to create a better power-to-weight ratio; thus, BETTER MPG! I would've loved to see the Rotax 1125 V-Twin in the 11's. The 1125 is used in the Buell 1125. It too is a high-rev engine.

With the 1060cc kit, I would be curious to know what other modifications might be required in the drive train given increased torque ... and does the 1060 kit do anything for the power-to-weight ratio?

... and wouldn't it just be nicer to drop in a bigger-displacement engine (that fits into the Spyder form factor, of course), than to eek out 50 more cc's, bore our current 998s with all the dis/re-assembly, cylinder boring, tuning, etc?

Of course, I'm no bike mechanic but .... *sigh*

[Raptor]

All through the "suggested improvements" threads, I've been hoping for a solution that doesn't turn my RT into a turbo'd RS.

What I want is to create a better power-to-weight ratio; thus, BETTER MPG! I would've loved to see the Rotax 1125 V-Twin in the 11's. The 1125 is used in the Buell 1125. It too is a high-rev engine.

With the 1060cc kit, I would be curious to know what other modifications might be required in the drive train given increased torque ... and does the 1060 kit do anything for the power-to-weight ratio?

... and wouldn't it just be nicer to drop in a bigger-displacement engine (that fits into the Spyder form factor, of course), than to eek out 50 more cc's, bore our current 998s with all the dis/re-assembly, cylinder boring, tuning, etc?

Of course, I'm no bike mechanic but .... *sigh*

Nope, all very valid points dude. What appealed to me about this kit was the fact that nothing else had to be changed or enhanced to handle the increased torque that the bigger bore would produce. Same stroke etc. Now if someone had a "crate" type drop in solution that would be unbelieveably cool! I think many of us agree that even though the V990 is a good strong engine and just fine for many of us the middle is a bit flat and it just needs a bit more pop. Well, I need a bit more pop!!

I know alot of that is ECU strangling, but valve train is also a legitimate place where one could improve performance along with more displacement. Perhaps ken will have a few moments to chat with me about this some time. I bet between the two of us we can cook something up!

[Firefly]

Most wanting more power are not too concerned about MPG. The Spyder is a big un-aerodynamic beast (brick) that just isn't going to get 'great' mpg......

Doc was down to 22 mpg I believe with his turbo--- of course he cruises at 100+ quite often..

[SpyderWolf]

I am still waiting to see the results when Lamont puts a Busa motor in his Spyder.

[NancysToy]

Anyone who thinks a better power to weight ratio will result in more MPG...never owned a 60s muscle car!

[Raptor]

Anyone who thinks a better power to weight ratio will result in more MPG...never owned a 60s muscle car!

You got that right Scotty! I had a 69 Camaro that I ended up sculpting like mad to get her aero efficient. Completely re-worked the suspension, front valence, a roof visor, cowl indiction hood, a race rear spoiler and specially blended fender flares that had American racing Rally wheels tucked under them. 10s in the front and 12s in the back! After the treatments I had no problems achieving just sick speeds in this monster!

She had 625 hp under the hood, but Ted Gotelli built the engine so it was the real deal and bullet proof. I re-geared a M-24 rock crusher tranny with taller, closer ratio gear clusters and very short shifter throws, more like a road race set up. Backed that up with a Corvette Tripple disk clutch and a balanced drive shaft... Oh, sorry everbody! I just loved that car! You can't build 'em like that any more. I was waxing rhapsonic!!

[Raptor]

I am still waiting to see the results when Lamont puts a Busa motor in his Spyder.

Wolfen! Didn't mean to car-jack the thread with my trip down memory lane! Scotty, it's all your fault! I remember Lamont made mention of this a while back. I thought he was jokng at first because we were talking about ECU options. Now I'm not so sure. That would be something to see!

[CRUCIFIED]

Hey Raptor....Ken lives near me in SoCal.

[SilverSurfer]

This is an interesting application and I'm not sure if I was picking up that someone has already applied this to their spyder or not. Lots o' questions to be answered.

As to "anybody who thinks," comments ... well when this "anybody" was in his late teens he had a 440 Plymouth that probably gulped 14 mpg. But that's not the point here, is it? Some just want power. That's fine. I like power; but I also like efficiency. Just my preference. Power to weight ratio is a measurement of efficiency. It's why Corvettes (anudder dang muscle car), for example, get great gas mileage.

So anyway, certainly looking forward to reports from Ken, Raptor or Lamonster on these type of mods.

~ Surfer

[SpyderWolf]

Wolfen! Didn't mean to car-jack the thread with my trip down memory lane! Scotty, it's all your fault! I remember Lamont made mention of this a while back. I thought he was jokng at first because we were talking about ECU options. Now I'm not so sure. That would be something to see!

It is your thread, so you can't possibly hi-jack, or car-jack it.

I believe Lamont is serious on trying put the Busa motor in his. At this point I am hoping he is very serious.

How ya'll going to adjust and tune your ignition timing to take advantage of all these new displacement, or compression , or cam timing/lift, or fuel delivery improvements?

All good questions. I do not know what could be done with the first kit posted on this thread. I would think that Ken from Evoluzione figured out how to get everything to work together with the kit he made though, as he offers quite a few other performance parts as well. Perhaps just the O2 modifier and Fuel Pressure modifier take care of the fuel delivery aspect.

The ignition timing is still the sticky one, as you have talked about that before on the Juice Box and Power Commander threads.

It would be extremely helpful if someone was to talk to Ken and ask him about all of this as well.

[NancysToy]

How ya'll going to adjust and tune your ignition timing to take advantage of all these new displacement, or compression , or cam timing/lift, or fuel delivery improvements?

All the performance enhancements in the world mean nothing if your hands are tied with the fuel and ignition systems. Adding a little extra fuel via a black box, O2 sensor eliminator, or fuel pressure increase is only a portion of what truly needs to be done with the mapping and timing, to take full advantage of such mods. You can pour nitromethane into your minivan, but it isn't going to run like a Top Fuel car!

[docdoru]

You can pour nitromethane into your minivan, but it isn't going to run like a Top Fuel car!

...OK with nitrous oxide up to 75 shots...

[Firefly]

Ken also yanked all the VSS stuff too--- FWIW.....

He builds and works on Aprilla's all the time--- so should know a bit about these engines......

I believe the key with his power upgrade is to do the cams along with the pistons........

He doesn't really post much on either forum, but was more than willing to answer questions when I have called him in the past.

[DragonSpyder]

I think I was told the drop in pistons would get about 10HP gain and an additional 15HP with the CAMS.

[Raptor]

I think I was told the drop in pistons would get about 10HP gain and an additional 15HP with the CAMS.

I would say that's a reasonable assessment, Sir. I know it'd be a major project and a lot of work (don't really know how much of it I'll end up doing to be honest!) but it would be nice to have that extra kick in the pants!

HDX, your point on tuning is one of the things I am concerned about as well. I would say a good amount of research will have to be done before I consider actually pulling the trigger on it.

Scotty, your point on ECU as well is estremely valid. May end up using a different ECU altogether! Or none at all (Evil laughter ensues!!)

But it's all gonna start with research. Gotta get myself edu-ma-cated first!

[Raptor]

Hey Raptor....Ken lives near me in SoCal.

I thought that may have been the area. Thanks Sir! Good to know. I'm just s stretch down highway 5 away, so maybe Ken and I can work something out! He certainly sounds like the man to talk to. If it does happen, this is gonna be fun!