Spark plug fouling from safety course?

[Darkwilliam]

Hi all, I'm a fairly new owner, I love the Spyder and wanted a bit louder muffler because of rush hour highway traffic - figuring anything that makes me more noticeable to chuckleheads putting on makeup while eating breakfast on their cellphones is a good thing... anyway I put on a HMF muffler about a week ago, remapped and it was *nice*.

This weekend I took a 3 wheel safety course and after hours of low speed stop and go riding on Saturday it was running rough and I could smell gas not burning completely. Rode it 30 minutes home on the highway and then back for Sunday no major problem, then at the end of the day rode it home to sputtering, backfiring, wheel-falling-off rough riding. Until I got the shop manual today I couldn't even figure out how to get to the plugs so haven't checked them yet (no grease or torque wrench on hand for reassembly either).

My questions are - has anyone else encountered such a thing? The shop manual says extended low speed riding and idling can cause fouling, I was the only student so I did 5-6 hours of low speed/idling in 2 sessions over the weekend. And, when I took it to the shop for my 600 mile checkup I asked them to put in (supplied) DCPR9EIX plugs and they wouldn't because the socket was not the same size as the factory plugs. Being a non-mechanic I thought it was the thread size and diameter (and gap)that mattered? I would like to put them in if the plugs are fouled as suspected.

And BTW, anyone looking for 2 or 3 wheel training in New Hampshire, I can't say enough about the school and would be happy to give a reference offline - or on, I didn't want to spam the group on my first post.

Thanks for any help.

[groundeffect]

Hi all, I'm a fairly new owner, I love the Spyder and wanted a bit louder muffler because of rush hour highway traffic - figuring anything that makes me more noticeable to chuckleheads putting on makeup while eating breakfast on their cellphones is a good thing... anyway I put on a HMF muffler about a week ago, remapped and it was *nice*.

This weekend I took a 3 wheel safety course and after hours of low speed stop and go riding on Saturday it was running rough and I could smell gas not burning completely. Rode it 30 minutes home on the highway and then back for Sunday no major problem, then at the end of the day rode it home to sputtering, backfiring, wheel-falling-off rough riding. Until I got the shop manual today I couldn't even figure out how to get to the plugs so haven't checked them yet (no grease or torque wrench on hand for reassembly either).

My questions are - has anyone else encountered such a thing? The shop manual says extended low speed riding and idling can cause fouling, I was the only student so I did 5-6 hours of low speed/idling in 2 sessions over the weekend. And, when I took it to the shop for my 600 mile checkup I asked them to put in (supplied) DCPR9EIX plugs and they wouldn't because the socket was not the same size as the factory plugs. Being a non-mechanic I thought it was the thread size and diameter (and gap)that mattered? I would like to put them in if the plugs are fouled as suspected.

And BTW, anyone looking for 2 or 3 wheel training in New Hampshire, I can't say enough about the school and would be happy to give a reference offline - or on, I didn't want to spam the group on my first post.

Thanks for any help.

Hi there and welcome.


Indeed the plugs on the Spyder can foul from what I understand from alot of stopping and starting where the engine does not get up to temp. My dealer has mentioned this to me a few times where their demo Spyders have fouled plugs by taking them out of the shop and ryding them to the end of the lot for display day in and day out.

Regarding changing the plugs - if you want the stock plug, it is: NGK DCPR9E (apply heat-sink paste P12 (P/N 420 897 186) on spark plug thread). BRP HIGHLY recommends you install a heat sink paste also - as per the manual you have. See the manual for placement of the paste. Your dealer should have some and should install the paste while they change the plugs.


If you do this yourself there is a part number - a small tube of heat sink paste you can use. It is : Radio Shack / (or The Source), part number: P/N 276-1372A. This is used to help take heat away from the plugs.



hope that helps.
Cheers,
Dean

[Darkwilliam]

Thanks, Dan, that does help a lot. I appreciate the Shack part number too, there's one closer than the dealer and I kinda lost confidence when the dealer refused to put the Iridium in because the 'oversized' wrench might get mangled spinning on the nut (I swear, I couldn't make that up), so I'll carefully give it a go first.

[boborgera]

when I took it to the shop for my 600 mile checkup I asked them to put in (supplied) DCPR9EIX plugs and they wouldn't because the socket was not the same size as the factory plugs. Being a non-mechanic I thought it was the thread size and diameter (and gap)that mattered? I would like to put them in if the plugs are fouled as suspected.

There's a little more to it than thread/diameter/gap.
There's also reach, among others,
Besides if the plugs you want to use need a wider socket, the socket won't fit in the head.

[NancysToy]

The DCPR9E and the DCPR9EIX have the same reach, the same thread, the same heat range, and take exactly the same size socket! Your dealer needs to quit smokin' dope!

[Pogo]

Hi Darkwilliam.

I've had a few episodes of misfiring that were at first attributed to a damaged Y pipe gasket.

On the last episode though, the gaskets had just been replaced. My mechanic said that whenever he had seen Spyders running on one pot, it was almost always the front pot that had dropped out, and that the cure was to replace the plugs. He did that and it was an instant cure.

Questions left over are "why would it be most often the front plug?", "What causes it?" and "is there a more permanent fix than jockeying plugs?"

If Lola will stay out of the shop for long enough, I will do some experimenting to see if I can isolate a cause, then we only need to find a cure.

[Darkwilliam]

Thanks for all the replies! The dealer actually said the hex size was smaller in the IX plug and apparently they only have one size plug wrench for all the snowmobiles, 4 wheelers and bikes they sell/service. It was my understanding they were virtually the same size, and who am I to argue with the experts... so thanks for confirming what I thought.

My first reaction when something like this happens is what did I potentially mess up, and with about 1000 miles on it and a week of running well with the aftermarket exhaust the only thing I did differently was the course. Even so I rechecked the seal on the exhaust pipe, retorqued bolts and idled it 15-20 minutes to remap (twice) to make sure. I'll try to find everything I need to change plugs tonight, we're having a 90 degree wave here and its just sitting there calling me.

And geez, Pogo, when I read your post I was swarmed by way too many memories of "its working now, what if I do *this*." I hope you're methodology is more sound than mine usually was.

[Darkwilliam]

Okay, good thing I'm okay admitting when I've been a fool... I ended up taking the Spyder back to the dealership today as I hadn't had the time to work on it, they tweaked it a bit and told me I could run it as is and eventually it might foul the plugs again so I may want to consider a Power Commander - I had thought about fuel management and decided to forego it for a bit, and they've ordered one for me.

Anyway, the part about me being a dumb*ss. I saw from the post that I needed DCPR9EIX plugs, check. I looked around online and ordered them. Or thought I did. See, as its a BPR... between the time I looked at what I needed, DCPR, and the time I ordered, the plug became BPR9EIX. And from that point on my brain saw them as the same thing. And as many times as I've looked at it and talked about it since, they were integrally the same. I wish I could say I was dyslexic - this is exactly why I first assume I hozed up (see previous post). Not only was the shop great dealing with my inherent dumbness (yep, different sizes), they gave me a break on the service.

Today I talked with the mechanic and he was great about explaining why the 15-20 minute 'remap' didn't quite do the trick, and why the plugs are so prone to fouling on the Spyders. They had another there with the same problem only worse. Apparently he sees it a lot at the dealership because they drive them from the front around the back to tweak or wash and return without them ever getting warmed up.

[Darkwilliam]

BRP... see?