Counter shaft pulley...again

[docdoru]

Déjà vu grounding noises, this time with a broken retainer bolt. First time the bike was 50K (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14189) now she is 7,890 miles.
Joe at West Coast Power sports in Clearwater manages to extract the remaining bolt from the shaft and replace the pulley and bolt. Thanks to Lamonster and BJT for help.
Here are some pics:

[aka1004]

my spyder just developed a grinding noise/clunking, especially when i let off the throttle and feels like they are coming from between my feet. is that how yours was acting? if my pulley has the same problem, could it just fall off? i am out of town and i got 300 miles to home.

[dltang]

my spyder just developed a grinding noise/clunking, especially when i let off the throttle and feels like they are coming from between my feet. is that how yours was acting? if my pulley has the same problem, could it just fall off? i am out of town and i got 300 miles to home.

aka, that is the noise that I remember. Get it to the dealer as soon as you can.

[docdoru]

IMO you can drive home just avoid the "engine brake" (down shifting at high RPM). The symptoms are the same. Than, to the dealer ASAP.

[aka1004]

alright. thank you both of ya.

[bjt]

IMO you can drive home just avoid the "engine brake" (down shifting at high RPM). The symptoms are the same. Than, to the dealer ASAP.

Same symptoms as mine had. I rode back from Mosheim, TN. to Michigan with mine making the noise. That was after they fixed my broken bolt and worn pulley, just like in Doc's picture. The second time is when they determined that the shaft was bad too.

[j45p3r]

What is the torque on this bolt supposed to be?

[docdoru]

What is the torque on this bolt supposed to be?

There is a new BRP bulletin regarding this.

[NancysToy]

There is a new BRP bulletin regarding this.

I would sure be interested in the detail on this.

[Firefly]

There is a new BRP bulletin regarding this.

Got a link or any specs so maybe some of us can avoid this nasty situation?

[tweeder]

I see your problem.... It's made in the usa, the pic says it all

[boborgera]

I see your problem.... It's made in the usa, the pic says it all

Thats it ~44/40~ Or fight.

[Latemarch]

Rusty bolt.
You can even see the point of entry and then the propagation of the rust to the interior of the bolt shaft.
You're supposed to lubricate a bolt before you put it in.

[Recluze]

I am a bit concerned as I guess we all are. I have had mine replaced once at about 38,000.

A few questions to Doc since you are a 'lead the fleet' type of rider;
Do you do a lot of engine braking?
Do you think that replacing the bolts with a better grade would help prevent this? I am asking for an opinion here.
Should we be looking for an aftermarket supplier for this part?

[docdoru]

I am a bit concerned as I guess we all are. I have had mine replaced once at about 38,000.

A few questions to Doc since you are a 'lead the fleet' type of rider;
Do you do a lot of engine braking?
Do you think that replacing the bolts with a better grade would help prevent this? I am asking for an opinion here.
Should we be looking for an aftermarket supplier for this part?

Yes, I'm using a lot of engine braking with double-clutching (like in all sport bikes I had).
IMO the bolt is not the cause but the effect of the problem: too much stress for the splines on the shaft vs/pulley at the pitch line.
A crowned spline can be analyzed for torque capacity except that the tooth contact is more of a point load condition rather than the conformal contact of a straight spline.

[j45p3r]

Yes, I'm using a lot of engine braking with double-clutching (like in all sport bikes I had).
IMO the bolt is not the cause but the effect of the problem: too much stress for the splines on the shaft vs/pulley at the pitch line.
A crowned spline can be analyzed for torque capacity except that the tooth contact is more of a point load condition rather than the conformal contact of a straight spline.

How do you double clutch a motorcycle? There isn't a neutral between each gear.

[NancysToy]

The big question to me is which happens first? There are some that say the bolt cracks and loosens first, allowing the splines to wear, while others feel the spline wear allows play, which eventually damages the bolt. If the splines wear first, due to improper design, improper alloys, or improper heat treating...a stronger bolt, or Loctite, would be of little value. If the bolts are going away, there is still a question as to why the splines wear so badly, and why all the damaged pulleys I have seen were worn to the same point...none had slipped out farther on the shaft and left the outside ends of the splines (except the very outer edge) intact. I intend to Loctite the bolts, and even replace them with a higher grade, but I suspect the problem lies elsewhere.

[docdoru]

How do you double clutch a motorcycle? There isn't a neutral between each gear.

Downshifting and blipping the throttle so the RPM matched the road speed.

[docdoru]

The big question to me is which happens first? There are some that say the bolt cracks and loosens first, allowing the splines to wear, while others feel the spline wear allows play, which eventually damages the bolt. If the splines wear first, due to improper design, improper alloys, or improper heat treating...a stronger bolt, or Loctite, would be of little value. If the bolts are going away, there is still a question as to why the splines wear so badly, and why all the damaged pulleys I have seen were worn to the same point...none had slipped out father on the shaft and left the outside ends of the splines (except the very outer edge) intact. I intend to Loctite the bolts, and even replace them with a higher grade, but I suspect the problem lies elsewhere.

A very good question for the Can-Am R&D...

[j45p3r]

Downshifting and blipping the throttle so the RPM matched the road speed.

Ah, OK, that's how I do it, didn't know bikers referred to it as double clutching.

[docdoru]

Ah, OK, that's how I do it, didn't know bikers referred to it as double clutching.

Or double dutching

[SpyderWolf]

Or double dutching

I wanted to try that, but can't seem to get the front wheels of my SE5 off the ground enough to start the game.

[Firefly]

Downshifting and blipping the throttle so the RPM matched the road speed.

Assuming you're NOT using the clutch during this process then?

[Firefly]

The big question to me is which happens first? There are some that say the bolt cracks and loosens first, allowing the splines to wear, while others feel the spline wear allows play, which eventually damages the bolt. If the splines wear first, due to improper design, improper alloys, or improper heat treating...a stronger bolt, or Loctite, would be of little value. If the bolts are going away, there is still a question as to why the splines wear so badly, and why all the damaged pulleys I have seen were worn to the same point...none had slipped out farther on the shaft and left the outside ends of the splines (except the very outer edge) intact. I intend to Loctite the bolts, and even replace them with a higher grade, but I suspect the problem lies elsewhere.

I think it's the splines and then the bolt goes when it's trying to 'pick up the slack'.

[widowmaker2011]

The big question to me is which happens first? There are some that say the bolt cracks and loosens first, allowing the splines to wear, while others feel the spline wear allows play, which eventually damages the bolt. If the splines wear first, due to improper design, improper alloys, or improper heat treating...a stronger bolt, or Loctite, would be of little value. If the bolts are going away, there is still a question as to why the splines wear so badly, and why all the damaged pulleys I have seen were worn to the same point...none had slipped out farther on the shaft and left the outside ends of the splines (except the very outer edge) intact. I intend to Loctite the bolts, and even replace them with a higher grade, but I suspect the problem lies elsewhere.

Very astute Scotty , thus the vibration Dampner on the RT...nuff said.