Have I been honest in my RT reviews?

[Lamonster]

I've read through all the post on Scotty's "Disappointment" thread and there was one post that really ticked me off and I'm sure that is what it was meant to do. I won't hijack Scotty's post but I will address his comment here.

Just wondering' Why didn't the few that have free rides mention how bad the handling is, and not just sugar coat it?
[i guess the free part answers that]
How many company's can sell 25thou.$ cars and you have to add your own suspension parts to make it handle right and stay in business?

First off this "free" ride is anything but free. As a matter of fact I would have thousands of dollars in my pocket if I never took the RT as one of the RT5. I've paid for all my fuel, my oil changes, all my meals and lodging and any other out pocket expenses related to traveling on the RT and writing my reviews. I won't even get into the time I've spent doing all this. I don't get paid for this and I'm doing it because I love the product even though it does has some shortcomings.

When I signed up for this program we were told to be honest and give feedback good, bad and ugly. The idea was not only to promote the RT but to give honest real world feedback so BRP could address any issues that they could solve preproduction. Some things have been addressed and some haven't. The front suspension is one of them.

From day one I reported that the suspension need to be cranked up all the way.
Blog-My first self inflected problem

As far as "Why didn't the few that have free rides mention how bad the handling is, and not just sugar coat it?"
I didn't mention it because it didn't handle bad. It did feel a little top heavy and setting the shocks to max fixed that for me. All the videos I took on the way home were done with one hand at speed and you can watch them for yourself and tell me if it looks like I was even close to being out of control at any time.
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/v...er=DESC&page=2

This video was taken doing 70mph with one hand on the bars, at one point I rolled up to 85mph with one hand.


So to answer your question directly, there was no bad handling to report and if you think that I have sugercoated anything because I have a "free" ride you're wrong. I've talked about all the issues I've had since I've been given this loaner RT. I haven't gone on a rant about it because I do have a different relationship than a owner has with BRP. I call them and report back so they can take a look at the issues and address them if need be. That's called working with the company, I've done that with all the vendors here to help you get a better product in the end.

If you want to call me out on anything related to my reviews please do so now and I will respond accordingly.

[BumbleBee]

You did not sugar coat at all. I read and followed all your write-ups about the RT. You were honest from the get go.

On my test ryde, I too did mention the RT feels and is a different ryde from the RS, handling is different, I did not complain, as you see I bought it anyway. It's getting used to a new machine again.

"I am going to have the shop set my suspension higher to the max as you suggested, the RT goes in on April 10th".

With time I will get more relaxed and my hold on my new RT-S will improve. Do I regret buying the RT? No way, I made the right decision, and no regrets.

[Neez]

Lamont, a lot of us GS/RS owners are now faced with 2 ways to upgrade. We can either buy the RT or upgrade our existing Spyders, similar to the way you did yours. Since you are the only guy I know with the experience of both, would you chose a customised RS or a stock RT? And could you give your reasons for your choice, please?

[BHawksworth]

I've owned both. It depends what you're looking for that a stock GS does not offer.

Lamont, a lot of us GS/RS owners are now faced with 2 ways to upgrade. We can either buy the RT or upgrade our existing Spyders, similar to the way you did yours. Since you are the only guy I know with the experience of both, would you chose a customised RS or a stock RT? And could you give your reasons for your choice, please?

[Neez]

I've owned both. It depends what you're looking for that a stock GS does not offer.

Except that the comparo that I'm after is a Customised GS against a Stock RT. Which is the best value if dollars spent are similar?

[2Gunns]

Lamont,

I have had zero suprizes since taking ownership and I credit most of this to your accessments of the RT. I have followed your blog/post and found you to be "Dead On", in my humble expierence.

Thank You

[JkRbbt]

I would also be very interested in responses to Neez' question on stock RT vs. RS tricked up. I have had a Goldwing and a couple of H/D Ultras in my past. I use a bike for touring, mostly. Right now, I have a H/D Springer Custom. I added a good seat, windshield, saddle bags, and luggage rack to set her up for the road. I think I would like a RS with windshield and saddle bags, but I don't care for the "sport bike" riding position. I know I can get some road pegs and different seat! For those with experience TOURING with a GS, I'd really appreciate feedback!

Thanx,

Loren

[ArmyJoe]

You can turn the RS into a touring bike, but you can't turn the RT into a sport bike.

[Twodog185]

I would also be very interested in responses to Neez' question on stock RT vs. RS tricked up. I have had a Goldwing and a couple of H/D Ultras in my past. I use a bike for touring, mostly. Right now, I have a H/D Springer Custom. I added a good seat, windshield, saddle bags, and luggage rack to set her up for the road. I think I would like a RS with windshield and saddle bags, but I don't care for the "sport bike" riding position. I know I can get some road pegs and different seat! For those with experience TOURING with a GS, I'd really appreciate feedback!

Thanx,

Loren

I feel embarrassed and ashamed at this shamelss plug.

When you add the handlebar risers, Corbin seat with backrest, hiway pegs and boards, upgraded torsion bar, this thing can out perform any other trike on the road. You add an adjustable windshield and side wind deflectors, the comfort level (wind buffering) can't be equalled at twice the price.

Believe us, with this machine you can not only handle the twisties with confidence, you can challenge them.

Speaking of price.....

http://home.windstream.net/twodogmc/sale.htm

[Lamonster]

Except that the comparo that I'm after is a Customised GS against a Stock RT. Which is the best value if dollars spent are similar?

That all depends on what is important to you as a touring Spyder. I've made my RS perfect for me for the long haul and it's great as a sport tourer too. I have no problem going coast to coast on my RS.

The down sides as I see it are the RS does not have the wind protection and heat management of the RT and never will with what's available in the aftermarket now. I really like the fact that I don't get cooked on the RT on a hot day stuck in traffic.

I like my Corbin sidebags better than the RT bags. I hate side loading bags and I find I hardly ever use them. I would get much more use out of them if they were top loading like the Harley's.

I like the foot position on the RT better than the RS but I like being able to adjust my bars with the ESI risers better than the stock position of the RT. I would like them up and forward a bit but for most this would be a real improvement over the stock RS.

I love the cruise control the RT and I really like the light throttle of the RT. The fly by wire makes it really nice on long trips. When I get back on my RS I really notice how much more effort it takes to pull those cables.

I like the fuel mileage better on my RS. Because the RT does have better wind protection it suffers in the mileage department. I think being 230 lbs heavier has less to do with the mileage than the fact that it's a big barn door going down the road. I get 34 to 38 mpg on my RS all the time without my trailer and I get 31 mpg or better with the trailer. The lowest I've recorded with the RT is 21.5 mpg with the trailer but right now my average is about 25.5 mpg.

I really like being able to change the songs on my ipod or being able to go to XM radio on the RT with the touch of my thumb. I'm not sure how I would do that on my RS as easy as it is on the RT. The sound system is pretty darn good on this thing.

If I had to pick only one to keep it would be my RS. I have it just the way I want it now and it just fits my personality better. As far as value goes I would say the RT is a great value if you want something that is done from the factory without any mods. I happen to enjoy modding my rides as much as riding them. Depending on what you wanted or needed for touring the RT would most likely be your best bet.

[outdoorallens]

I've read through all the post on Scotty's "Disappointment" thread and there was one post that really ticked me off and I'm sure that is what it was meant to do. I won't hijack Scotty's post but I will address his comment here.
First off this "free" ride is anything but free. As a matter of fact I would have thousands of dollars in my pocket if I never took the RT as one of the RT5. I've paid for all my fuel, my oil changes, all my meals and lodging and any other out pocket expenses related to traveling on the RT and writing my reviews. I won't even get into the time I've spent doing all this. I don't get paid for this and I'm doing it because I love the product even though it does has some shortcomings.

When I signed up for this program we were told to be honest and give feedback good, bad and ugly. The idea was not only to promote the RT but to give honest real world feedback so BRP could address any issues that they could solve preproduction. Some things have been addressed and some haven't. The front suspension is one of them.

From day one I reported that the suspension need to be cranked up all the way.
Blog-My first self inflected problem

As far as "Why didn't the few that have free rides mention how bad the handling is, and not just sugar coat it?"
I didn't mention it because it didn't handle bad. It did feel a little top heavy and setting the shocks to max fixed that for me. All the videos I took on the way home were done with one hand at speed and you can watch them for yourself and tell me if it looks like I was even close to being out of control at any time.
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/v...er=DESC&page=2

This video was taken doing 70mph with one hand on the bars, at one point I rolled up to 85mph with one hand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EouWMxlQTVo

So to answer your question directly, there was no bad handling to report and if you think that I have sugercoated anything because I have a "free" ride you're wrong. I've talked about all the issues I've had since I've been given this loaner RT. I haven't gone on a rant about it because I do have a different relationship than a owner has with BRP. I call them and report back so they can take a look at the issues and address them if need be. That's called working with the company, I've done that with all the vendors here to help you get a better product in the end.

If you want to call me out on anything related to my reviews please do so now and I will respond accordingly.

We are new rt-s se5 owners, all that we have read seems to be spot on. It takes a lot of time, money and knowledge to due a prpoer review, i think if anyone has that kind pull we should offer any positive help posible.. THANKS FOR YOUR TIME AND ADVISE AND OPINIONS.. Only gripe we have is if you sell a comunication(PACKAGE) it should come with what you need to actually use the darn thing, considering the price...

[NancysToy]

I would like to say that I believe what Lamont has said here. I, too commented on the top-heavy feeling and the need to set up the suspension, at the time of my demo rides. It is unfortunate that BRP did not provide a little stiffer spring to begin with, or more adjustment steps, but it is what it is. As I said before, my RTS seems to be an extreme. Not sure why it acts like it does, even with the suspension at the upper limit, but it is far less stable than either demo RT I rode. I had no problem with either of them in twisties, rough roads, traffic, or at highway speeds...just a slight wallowing, that probably could have been addressed by adding suspension preload, and a predictable dive into banked corners. Lamont may not have belabored the fact, but he did speak of the handling peculiarities and differences, as did others. My Spyder appears to be an exception.

[NorthStar]

for gently responding to the shot thrown in your general direction. Your response demonstrated a great deal of restraint and decorum.

I picked up my new RT S and 622 trailer yesterday afternoon, and to tell you the truth I had a tight knot in my stomach all the way to the dealership. The less than positive experiences that were being shared in this forum, concerning the shortcomings of the RT, definitely had me spooked.

I had the dealer set the bike up for a firm ride (tire air pressure and front shock to the max) and 200 kms later that knot in my stomach had dissolved. My initial expectations have been exceeded, so I am hopeful that the riding experience going forward will continue to be positive.

In the meantime, I am very much looking forward to continuing to read posts from all RT spyderlovers who have something they wish to share with the community. Your sharing of facts, fixes, mods and personal experiences is what continues to make this forum a great place to visit. Keep it up.

[boborgera]

My comment was not directed at you, So let me apologize right now.
I have an 08 GS, I was thinking of trading up to an RTS. So Ive been watching Fred Rau doing interviews, In one interview he was asked about
how it handles. Let's JUST say it cant do what he [Fred] said it can.
Fred is a spokesman for BRP. and i should have realize that before i opened up my big fat typing finger I meant my comment at his post only.

I am truly sorry for any misunderstanding.

[Sopher]

Lamont,
I highly value your input, experience, knowledge and reviews of the RT-S and all things Spyder related. I too recalled your thoughts of shock adjustments and top-heavyness.

When I received my RT-S it too was very soft and moved around like Scotty describes. I doubt MY rt-s is any different than others. Nor do I think mine is extreme or even close to it. Last night I adjusted the shocks to be maxed up. It did make a huge improvement. Now it does ride like my older 2008-RS. I'm sure other adjustments are in order.

What I also forgot but am now re-learning is that the bike does needs some break-in riding. I know my belt needs adjustement and maybe even other adjustments by the dealer that I'm not keen to. I've rode the RPM's high as others have advised for break-in for my RS.

I do think that some more quality control and test riding at the plant should be a standard QC task.

So, Lamont, you HAVE and will continue to always provide true and honest reporting. Thank you for all you do.

[Lamonster]

for gently responding to the shot thrown in your general direction. Your response demonstrated a great deal of restraint and decorum.

I picked up my new RT S and 622 trailer yesterday afternoon, and to tell you the truth I had a tight knot in my stomach all the way to the dealership. The less than positive experiences that were being shared in this forum, concerning the shortcomings of the RT, definitely had me spooked.

I had the dealer set the bike up for a firm ride (tire air pressure and front shock to the max) and 200 kms later that knot in my stomach had dissolved. My initial expectations have been exceeded, so I am hopeful that the riding experience going forward will continue to be positive.

In the meantime, I am very much looking forward to continuing to read posts from all RT spyderlovers who have something they wish to share with the community. Your sharing of facts, fixes, mods and personal experiences is what continues to make this forum a great place to visit. Keep it up.

Fred took some hits on that post too and just because he doesn't have a high post count doesn't mean he doesn't have good information to share about the RT. He has more miles on a RT than anyone to date and he has more miles on motorcycles than most anyone I know. He's fast approaching 2 million miles now. He's another great resource that I feel we are lucky to have here. We all start with a low post count but we all don't start with as many real world mileage on the RT as Fred has.

I think maybe his post didn't come across the way he had intended it to but he was trying to help give some good advice.

[Neez]

Thanks, Lamont, for your well thought-out answer to my question. I suppose that, barring outright factory lemons, it comes down to personal choice. I've always been a cruiser guy, as opposed to a touring rider, and I love to modify my machines to suit my taste. I've never been overly impressed with electronic distractions and prefer a sporty ride to plush comfort, so it's the tricked-out GS/RS for me. Others will differ and that's perfectly legit. Your views on the matter are much appreciated.

[ThreeWheels]

Here's my take on this, and as always, free advice is worth every penny you pay for it.

I had an opportunity to ride a pre-production RT, a week or so after I purchased my own. The pre-production model tracked like it was on rails. Mine wanders a bit like it's always buffetted by the wind behind a big truck.

Without the ride on the pre-production model, I would have bought into everyone's advice who said "It's a different ride", "You need to get seat time", "You have to get used to it".

All good advice, and when it comes to cornering, etc, this advice is absolutely correct.

But since I was able to ride a more stable unit, now I know that a repair is in order.

The point being, the most likely scenario is that the people riding the pre-production bikes were NOT experiencing the Dancing RT like I have.

[strats]

Lamont,
It is through the wisdom and insight of yourself, Scotty and too many others to mention that I bought my RS and have now bought my RT-S.

The service you provide on this forum has helped me more times than I care to think about and without it I would frankly be lost. Unfortunately we are quite a way behind in Australia when it comes to the experience you guy's have had with Spyders. I value your opinions and I must say that I am happy that I made the switch to the RT-S, it suits my needs more than the RS did.

If you are ever in Oz, look us up, it would be a pleasure.

[Jester]

I now have just over 1,000 miles on RTS PE 528. I always thought it fit me much better than the RS but to each his own. I cranked the front shocks to the max and put 24 lbs of air in the front tires and it has made a tremendous improvement in tracking and stability. My main concern with BRP is getting the optional accessories delivered. Still waiting on the CB and headset pack.

Lamont has, imho, done a great job developing this board and giving us all a place to learn from others. From reading everything Spyder I could, I feel I made the right choice and am looking for many more years of fun. For me, it was time to move from 2 wheels to 3 and this bike is so much more than a conventional trike.

[Brevet05]

Thanks for all who've had input into this thread. I'm likely to switch over to the RT vs. my 2008 SM5, so I was very concerned with some the characteristics that you've all brought to light about the RT. For me, it comes down to something that Lamont wrote several months ago about his riding alone because his wife doesn't share his passion for riding. That has also been my experience, and despite my initial concerns, have logged just under 9000 miles on the Army Spyder, nearly all of it by myself. However, my wife got interested with the riding I was doing to find the items in Irish's scavenger hunt, and has gone from 'absolutely not' to 'just on post' to 'just not on the highway' to 'just don't kill us.'
So, while the sportier SE5 far better suits my temperment and self-image, I'm looking to give it up to entice her to ride more often and longer with the more posh ride aboard the RT-S. My dream is to ride out to Big Bend with her before we move north to Ohio this summer, and if having a more relaxed ride behind a barn door windshield is the price, then I'll pay it.

The good news is that I already have an interested buyer for the Army Spyder, so if we can come to an agreement on the value of my mods, then it's off to STS to move into the touring realm. Maybe when my kids finish college I'll get a second Spyder...

[MouthPiece]

As I said in a recent and similar thread, I am very pleased with my spyder RTS. Admittedly there are some quirks, but for the most part I've learned to ride this machine with pleasure. I guess the most important part of the equation is my wife. She loves it and has said how secure she feels on it. Since I'm getting older and my need for speed isn't what it was like years ago, I opted more for the comfort than the speed. Hence, I went for the RTS. I'm not sure the "little lady" would have let me get the other anyways.

Bottom line is that most everything that Lamont has reported has held up to be accurate. I also thank him for his reporting. Sometimes this type of setting, i.e., typing on a forum, does not convey the true meaning intended.

Chris Ray, Sanford, Flarda, and a very happy spyder owner.

[Jester]

As I said in a recent and similar thread,... Since I'm getting older and my need for speed isn't what it was like years ago, I opted more for the comfort than the speed. Hence, I went for the RTS. .....................
[/SIZE][/FONT]

Chris Ray, Sanford, Flarda, and a very happy spyder owner.

I found the RTS has plenty enough of the "need for speed fix" to keep me going and comfort factor is king!

[lawrenc454]

i think they have been fair and honest. Their reputations are worth more to them then our perception of what might have gotten from BRP. They spent their own time and money to help BRP and us to get better Spyders.

The RT has some bugs as will every new production model. There are also variations that occur in building them, and there are lemons occassionally. But there are also bikes and people that aren't made for each other. Our last bike was a beautiful Harley CVO ultra Tour Glide which after 500 miles i knew was the wrong bike for us,

We have over 1000 miles on the RT and dislike a couple of things and will get them fixed in one way or another.

I also know that my riding style is not as agressive as many riders and not as conservative as some riders. As a result I may or may not see issues others see.

I feel bad for those having problems but that is a part of the price we pay for early production bikes.

Let's be constructive and give the info to BRP and give them a chance to see what they can do,

I would suggest we build a list of those things that we feel that BRP SHOULD/COULD CONSIDER. Here are some suggested categories:

SAFETY -true safety concerns , i.e., for me the Spyder going into Limp Home mode at freeway speeds unexpectedly occassionally is a concern and would affect some riders worse than others.

MECHANICAL- things that work okay for most but could be better and more uniform, i.e. gas gauge sending unit is not a safety issue and most m/c gauges don't do much better but it could be a lot better.
- trailer carpeting attachment is poor, mabe a kit of cleaner and different velcro could be supplied

ELECTRICAL - things that work okay for most but could be better and more uniform, i.e. placement of the outlet for the IPOD in the trunk -- if you add the shelf and bag and when i pushed the BRP trunk bag in it not not only disconnected the IPOD line but knocked the outlet cap and lock ring off and the oulet fell back into the speaker enclosure. A nuisance but if the outlet was two inches lower it would avoid the issue. If you didn't buy the shelf and bag the existing location would probably be fine.

CONVENIENCE - what would we like or have liked
- heated seat option from the factory
- adjustable wings under the mirrors for hot weather riding

APPEARANCE -

FUTURE ACCESSORIES - completely optional but our ideas may help
- bluetooth for the entire entertainment system
- HID
-

I work better under constructive inputs and I'm sure that BRP does also.

Lonnie

[Questions]

Lamont,
I believe you deserve a great big THANK YOU from all who read and participate in this forum.
Prior to purchasing a Spyder RT S as soon as one became available in my home state of Western Australia, I had read each and every thread on the forum, inclusing all the GS related items.
I found your input and comments to be of tremendous value , honest and not embellished with Sales-speak or B.S.

When the opportunity arose to test ride the RT S I was able to approach this with a reasonable knowledge of what to expect in regard to handling and performance.

regards
Al