Here's The Real Dirt On Air Filters

[Magic Man]

There have been some discussions here about air filters, and although many people have some things correct, there has also been much "urban legend" type talk flying around too.

Now I have myself always had a fairly good working knowledge of filter designs and functions. I wanted to get into the real tech stuff to see what I myself may have had wrong in regard to filters and their designs.

So to try to get the real 411 on this topic I called and spoke to Jason at GREEN FILTER today for over an hour about this topic. Jason is one of the design team engineers at GREEN FILTER and also worked on the NMN designed Spyder filters.

We always knew from past uses that GREEN FILTER made a top quality product and is the reason NMN had GREEN FILTER design and manufacturer it's line of Spyder air filters. But I wanted to be able to share with all of you the reasons behind our choice to use GREEN FILTER as the maker of the NMN line of air filters.

So, here is real skinny about air filters.

Microns, Microns, Microns......

There has been much talk here about micron size filter capabilities, yet nobody seemed to know just what was good or bad in this regard.

The industry wide standard or "benchmark" for air filters is 5 microns.

Particles smaller than this are industry accepted as being too small to cause any motor wear or damage and is the OEM standard all compainies use in this regard. This is the standard used for all 3 types of common filter material which is paper, cloth and foam. Their "capture percentage" is measured against this 5 micron size.

Filters such as GREEN FILTER or K&N use a cotton gauze material held between two layers of a wire mesh.

HOWEVER...Not all the cotton material is the same.

The tightness of the weave plays a large part in both the materials effective filtration and also its cost.

This is very similar to the "thread count" in the weave of your bed sheets. The higher the count the tighter the weave, but also the higher the cost for them as well.

Now someone posted what K&N said someplace about their filters 5 micron "capture percentage." I asked Jason about this percentage K&N posts and was told that K&N uses a (to be 2010 PC here) much "more cost conscious" and more open weave in it's material and therefore has this "capture percentage" (I think the lay person term here is cheaper gauze)

The gauze material used in the construction of a GREEN FILTER is many times the thread count of a K&N and has a 5 times higher cost per yard than the more open gauze used in many of the other mesh filters now being sold.

The "capture percentage" for a GREEN FILTER with it's high thread count tighter weaved gauze is 99.1 to 99.4 percentage of the 5 micron industry standard.

I also reconfirmed what I alwys knew which is that GREEN FILTER filters meet or exceed ALL OEM air fliter requirements, and will not cause any warranty issues when used in a new unit.

Something else I found out today is GREEN FILTER is the OEM supplier for all Chrysler MOPAR high performance factory filters and are standard equipment in all the FORD SALEN Mustangs and trucks as well.

GREEN also supplies the worlds #1 engine manufacturer (Briggs and Stratton) with it's line of "extreme duty filters." Briggs and Stratton makes more engines world wide than any other company, something I did not know myself.

So, why no filter will catch every spec of dirt 100%, the 99.1% to 99.4 "capture percentage" that a GREEN FILTER does is far and above the industry OEM standard for a paper filter which is 94%.

It does this all this while flowing from 33% to almost 50% more air to your engine, as well as being totally servicable and reusable.

So, as in anything else in life filters can and will be different and at different "price points" but with you now knowing the how and whys of what goes in to these filters I hope you can better appreciate why that is.

Like Jason told me today, GREEN FILTER does not want to be the biggest filter company, nor sell the cheapest or most units, as that's not their goal or business plan.

They just want to make and sell the best filter they can, at a fair price for the level of quality and performance it delivers.

Being in the business myself, I know I'd rather have a product like this from a company like this everytime. It might cost me a bit more than trying to save a few bucks with a lower cost option, but I'd rather spend it and get all the performance and protection I can. Because over the life of the filter the small increase in price boils down to fractions of a penny per mile.

MM

[bone crusher]

I have one and would get no other...I love the positive changes it made to my bike...along with the hindle and Juicebox, my bike is much more fun to ride...

[effgjamis]

Excellant.... thanks .. Now I know more than I did before I read you explaination.....thanks again..

[fastfraser]

Thanks Magicman ! Great info .

[dave01]

Thanks MM for the great explanation. While I have no specs to compare the filters against, my " seat of the pants dyno" has shown a real improvement in the throttle response and acceleration of the RTS. Almost like a real throttle instead of the fly by wire design. Thanks again. Dean also noticed a good improvement on the trip home with his Orbital Blue.

[Roger]

I have a question? If the green filter has a tighter weave then how does it get more air in. I'm not trying to put this filter down. Because i took a stock filter out of my car and installed a k&n and the stock has a tight weave very tight but it maybe able to get more air threw it just like your senario.

[CGJ]

Most flow/HP, worst filtration - OIled Gauze
Medium Flow/HP, medium filtration - Oiled Foam
Lower Flow/HP, good filtration - Dry Paper
Lowest Flow/HP, Best filtration - Dry paper in a canister housing (UMP)

[ddileo]

Thanks MM for the great explanation. While I have no specs to compare the filters against, my " seat of the pants dyno" has shown a real improvement in the throttle response and acceleration of the RTS. Almost like a real throttle instead of the fly by wire design. Thanks again. Dean also noticed a good improvement on the trip home with his Orbital Blue.

Yes. Noticeable difference.

[dave01]

Most flow/HP, worst filtration - OIled Gauze
Medium Flow/HP, medium filtration - Oiled Foam
Lower Flow/HP, good filtration - Dry Paper
Lowest Flow/HP, Best filtration - Dry paper in a canister housing (UMP)

Can I ask where these scenarios came from. I have run oiled filters for many years and have found them to be far superior to any dry filters in trapping particles. From quads, race cars to high performance turbo engines, this has been my findings. Dry paper filters ( stock style) are used by manufacturers due to thier low cost. The only downside to the oiled filters is that depending on the conditions where you ryde, you will need to perform maintenance ( clean, re-oil) the filters more frequently.
I guess this follows the regular versus high test, synthetic versus non synthetic choices...LOL

[boborgera]

You really want to know which air filter is best for performance [only]?
Go to a drag strip do 3 runs with each filter, Then compare time slips the answer will be found there. Seat of paints [noise] doe's not = performance
Back in the old days that's how i would test my work.
P/S = I held the class record at 3 strips.

[dave01]

Seat of paints [noise] doe's not = performance.

Sorry, its not noise I feel thats making my RTS pull harder, accelerate quicker and run smoother. The dragstrip will only work if all factors are equal, ie wheelspin, shift points, rpms, head/tail wind etc. The dyno will show actual, real time numbers.
This comes from 22 years of motorcycle dragracing experience and 7 years of engine building on quads and motorcycles.
BUT, it does sound cool sucking in the extra air...LOL

[Magic Man]

Most flow/HP, worst filtration - OIled Gauze
Medium Flow/HP, medium filtration - Oiled Foam
Lower Flow/HP, good filtration - Dry Paper
Lowest Flow/HP, Best filtration - Dry paper in a canister housing (UMP)

With the industry average for paper OEM filters being 94 to 95% they may be better than some cheaper gauze filters, but not all.

One of the things that Jason and I spoke about but I forgot to write about is how the weave and oil in the filter all play a huge part of how these filters work.

Basically, the air and dirt have to "wind" their way through the "maze" of the mesh gauze. It is during this "winding" through the "gauze mesh maze" that the dirt in the air "bumps into" and sticks to those oil treated surfaces.

Actual test have shown that as some dirt begins to stick to these surfaces it actually helps to stop even more dirt from being able to make it through this "maze." Test show that these filters actually flow quite well even when covered in dirt compaired to a "dirty" paper filter.

Also, the stainless steel mesh helps create a "static charge" that attracts and helps to hold the dirt as well. Here is a breif description of how this works from the http://www.greenfilterusa.com/WhyGoGreen/tabid/126/Default.aspx site.

"Green Filter USA filters come pre-treated with a specially formulated dirt trapping oil. This oil creates a positive magnetic charge, or ionic bond, with the filters stainless steel mesh. The positive charge attracts the negatively charged dust particles entering the filter, causing them to cling to the steel mesh and allowing the cotton to remain clear for maximum airflow."

You can find more information on GREEN FILTERS and this design of filters there as well.

MM

[CGJ]

Can I ask where these scenarios came from. I have run oiled filters for many years and have found them to be far superior to any dry filters in trapping particles. From quads, race cars to high performance turbo engines, this has been my findings. Dry paper filters ( stock style) are used by manufacturers due to thier low cost. The only downside to the oiled filters is that depending on the conditions where you ryde, you will need to perform maintenance ( clean, re-oil) the filters more frequently.
I guess this follows the regular versus high test, synthetic versus non synthetic choices...LOL

I hardcore atv and a oiled foam filter is by far superior to K&N. It may not be better performing but it deffinately keeps less dirt getting into the engine. That's why BRP only sells the UNI filter for the Rotax motor in the Renegade 800.

[RShrimp]

Good stuff Magic man.
Maybe I can shed some light on why 5 microns is the standard and why it matters.
Anything smaller than 5 microns will get trapped and swallowed in the oil film and not cause any damage. Large particles will not fit in the gap that is created by the oil film and therefore will not cause damage as they cant fit where the damage is done (bearings and cyl walls). They just go out the exhaust.
The worrysome dirt is the stuff that is the same size as the thickness of the oil film. Not sure off the top how thick the oil film is but 5-10 microns sounds about right.

[Gordy]

myself Iwould not use an oil film filter on an engine with a mass air flow sensor .oil tends to build up on the heated wires and insulates them causing a lean mixture . saying this I dont have my spyder yet so dont know if they have a mas sensor

[Magic Man]

I hardcore atv and a oiled foam filter is by far superior to K&N. It may not be better performing but it deffinately keeps less dirt getting into the engine. That's why BRP only sells the UNI filter for the Rotax motor in the Renegade 800.

So again you keep wanting to say that all gauze filters are the same as a K&N just because they are of the mesh design.

Just because the K&N filters you used in the past that have a more open mesh performed one way, does not mean all mesh filters will be the same. Why some of the ones they are selling from China for the street racer cars are even worse yet as they use way too open of gauze mesh.

In everything there will be products that may seem alike, some better some worse. To say just because they may look alike they are the same is a big mistake.

Look at the Spyder copies from China from a company called Energy. They look like a Spyder first glance for sure, but the differance could not be greater once you really examine the facts.

MM

[Sarge707]

Until I see comprehensive DYNO testing on the competing filters my next filter will be a stock one?

[boborgera]

Until I see comprehensive DYNO testing on the competing filters my next filter will be a stock one?

And it has to be an independent testing outfit, Not the guys who sell them. You know how it go's =
My filter is better than the other guys!

[dave01]

Its just a matter of personal choice. I have never had luck with stock air filters with regards to performance and ability to filter out dirt. My choice was to go with the Green filter because I like the way they are constructed, the stiff side walls that will hold thier shape and sealing ability better and the fact that they are re-usable. Unless someone has a lot of free time and a dyno at thier disposal, you will NEVER get a test done with all types of filters.

[aubierules]

And it has to be an independent testing outfit, Not the guys who sell them. You know how it go's =
My filter is better than the other guys!

[Magic Man]

Until I see comprehensive DYNO testing on the competing filters my next filter will be a stock one?

The GREEN FILTER line had to go through independent lab tests to be approved for FORD, Chrysler, B&S as well to prove they met their requirements. I will see if Jason can get me these?

Also as we speak here Two Bros is using one of the new NMN GREEN FILTERS for the the RT to write one of the programs for the new RT Pro Juice Box unit they are making ,and they will be making it one of the pre-programed settingscontained in that unit along with ones for their pipe.

Once Two Bros is done with their programing and testing I will see if they will let me have a copy of the Dyno reports for their pipe and Pro series Juice Box with and without the GREEN FILTER filter.

I am not sure just what HP increase an RS or RT will show with these filters, but a HP increase from this kind of filter has been Dyno PROVEN time and time again in real world Dyno test on so many different autos, bike, trucks ATVs that there is no reason to doubt that the engine in a Spyder will not respond the same as all these other engines have over the years.

In todays "sue happy" world, companies like K&N and GREEN FILTER would have been called out on this long ago if they could not back the claims they have made throughout the years regarding the HP claims made on other internal combustion motors.

There is a reason MOPAR uses these for it's factory high performance filters and that the HUGE money Saleen equiped FORDS use these filters as well. When a large part of the price of a 67K plus Saleen Mustang or truck is because of the motor, the last thing they are going to do is use a filter that makes the motor wear faster or reduce it's power putput.

Because the Spyder is somewhat different in it's VSS system and reverse trike design, it has not been Dyno tested as quickly as many other bikes/autos/ATVs have been. So right now these test results are not so easy to come by.

But there is no reason to doubt that 990 series ROTAX motor in a Spyder would respond any different that any other internal combustion engine does when using this type of high flow filter.

There is no filter that will make a Spyder into a top fuel drag bike, but all around performance is not just about top HP numbers. I have been doing this on bikes now for 39 years, and there is no doubt in my mind that the RS Spyders and the RT have much improved responce and all around performance when one of these filters is used.

But, if you like paper filters by all means keep using them. Your using or not using them is a personal choice you are free to make, and one I'm sure seems to make sense to you to do so.

MM

[CGJ]

So again you keep wanting to say that all gauze filters are the same as a K&N just because they are of the mesh design.

Just because the K&N filters you used in the past that have a more open mesh performed one way, does not mean all mesh filters will be the same. Why some of the ones they are selling from China for the street racer cars are even worse yet as they use way too open of gauze mesh.

In everything there will be products that may seem alike, some better some worse. To say just because they may look alike they are the same is a big mistake.

Look at the Spyder copies from China from a company called Energy. They look like a Spyder first glance for sure, but the differance could not be greater once you really examine the facts.

MM

Doesn't have to be K&N. Can be Green Filter, Brown Filter, Pink Filter. An oiled foam filter will keep more dirt out then any other gauze filter period. I know this from real world testing not some manufacturer claim. I'm not saying Green Filter is not any good and should be fine for where the Spyder is ridden. For it to be, the be all end all filter, not so sure.

[Magic Man]

Doesn't have to be K&N. Can be Green Filter, Brown Filter, Pink Filter. An oiled foam filter will keep more dirt out then any other gauze filter period. I know this from real world testing not some manufacturer claim. I'm not saying Green Filter is not any good and should be fine for where the Spyder is ridden. For it to be, the be all end all filter, not so sure.

... and now that you mention it?

Just who are you that we should take your word on this?

Where is your "independent testing" backing your claims and showing this?

So, I see your "real world" testing counts to prove your point but nobody elses does.

After 39 years of doing this in the motorcycle industry and holding an ASE Master Tech rating and my Certification from AMI (now Wyo Tech) that I know what I am talking about. Why is it we should all take just your word on this?

Like it or not, I am a somebody in the motorcycle world and have the credentials to back that I know what I am talking about. So, tell me why should somebody take the word of a guy with 8 posts over mine.

With clear proof that major companies like Ford, Chrysler and B&S all also but their faith in these fliters as well. These are major players and would not be using these filters because they don't work.

Oh wait, and please don't even go there that it's because "your not selling anything ether." Because although we sell many things here at ESI anyone who has ever dealt with our company can tell you "our integrity" is not one of the things ever for sale.

Especially for a $70 filter sale.

Show us your data. Or leave it to it's your personal choice on this topic.

But, without data yourself proving this, don't come on here like your some sort of expert on air filters and that your word is the only word to be trusted or believed on this topic just because you don't sell something.

I did my research before I spoke to be sure I had the facts straight, now show us yours.

MM

[ataDude]

... and now that you mention it?

Just who are you that we should take your word on this? ...

Hmmm... the last person from Cornwall in here was banned due to dual identities.

.

[boborgera]

Filters what filters, I use 93 octane don't need any stinking filters.
Also i only use Clean New Jersey air, it's the best my tax money can buy!!