Passing it on- Dynamic Power Steering (DPS) Update

[Spanky]

If one were to read it more carefully, they'd see that BRP doesn't admit anything, rather they place the fault on us for reporting "such a small number of cases", and because they "don't understand the nature of our complaints.....

.....Also, they seem VERY careful to NOT say that it's safe to ride......perhaps leaving the door open to avoid any responsibility if something unfortunate were to occur....

The only action suggested continues to address the OLD DPS recall from last summer, (which seems to have actually initiated the NEW DPS steering problems) and has no bearing on the current issues that many are experiencing AFTER they already had the "latest software" installed last July......

So again, it seems that even the 'official response' to a potentially fatal situation is carefully crafted with BRP's best interests in mind, not yours or mine.......

I can't see even the most devoted BRP fan liking the flavor of this koolaid....

I guess I need to get a battery tender, it looks like it will be awhile.

[irataylor]

As an owner of a spyder with steering problems, I am awaiting the delivery of a new DPS unit in hopes it fixes my problem. (ETA ? Back ordered) At least I have till may 2013 warranty. I bought the used trike back last December and have only put less than 50 miles on the puppy.

Fingers and toes crossed ...

[NancysToy]

Once again, if any of you that are reporting problems have not reported them to the NHTSA, please do so. There is more pressure with higher numbers. If you have reported before, but had a repeated incident, report that one, too. Also, I urge you to get your Spyder to a dealer if you have not done so. Whatever anyone thinks of BRP, remember that they cannot troubleshoot and figure out the problems if they don't have the broken Spyders in hand.

[Amanda B]

I have two vehicles, a Toyota & a Spyder. With my luck the roof of my house will cave in and kill me.

I was kind of thinking the same thing! I'm in the same boat! There's a lot of snow on my roof too....

[Amanda B]

My point was Toyota/Honda are not watching this forum.
I'm sure if you go on a Toyota forum Reps. from BRP aren't
watching the Toyota forum.

Well...if I'm on my spyder and behind me there is a Toyota I'm going to be wondering...will my steering lock up or will their gas pedal lock up or with my luck both would happen!! Also, I am always more cautious when a biker is in front of me, not that I don't always try to be careful, but I worry more when it is a biker in front of me because I know they are more prone to be hurt seriously in the event I hit them due to whatever, now I have to worry more about a stupid pedal problem. I get the point though. I think people are trying to compare Toyota's response to the problems to BRPs response to the steering problem though. My only point is we all share the roads, so we should care that there are unsafe vehicles on the road, and most of us drive more than just the .

[Firefly]

Once again, if any of you that are reporting problems have not reported them to the NHTSA, please do so. There is more pressure with higher numbers. If you have reported before, but had a repeated incident, report that one, too. Also, I urge you to get your Spyder to a dealer if you have not done so. Whatever anyone thinks of BRP, remember that they cannot troubleshoot and figure out the problems if they don't have the broken Spyders in hand.

Well said.

And for those without steering problems--- RIDE!

Just like the danger of having a flat tire (which is probably greater than a DPS failure) - be prepared for any mechanical failure that may occur.

This is true for any bike - because all mechanical things can fail.

I rode with a *bit* of caution after getting mine back from the steering fix last March - but within a few hundred miles felt as safe and comfortable as ever. 10,000 miles later--- no problems.


Expecting BRP to come on a public forum and 'admit' to anything is silly - no company in their right mind would ever do such a thing. You can bet that any written release has to go through the legal dept in this day and age as it seems people think they can sue for what *might* happen to them.

I believe there has only been one injury reported that was *probably* due to steering problems - but if I recall the rider admitted to taking some twisties too fast, bike was pulling left and he thought he was going to hit a truck - so he chose to go far left and off the road thus crashing.

The crash of the woman in TX was never determined either way as to the cause.

[czdaryle]

Just like the danger of having a flat tire (which is probably greater than a DPS failure) - be prepared for any mechanical failure that may occur.

This is true for any bike - because all mechanical things can fail.

I don't agree with this argument..there is a chance you will get a flat tire sure, but know you also added another chance of something, I think, could be just as serious. You haven't eliminated the flat tire problem you have added to it. With that logic why bother taking anything in for recall repair if you have never had the problem.

HDXBones is right...I reread it and they really don't admit anything a make it sound like they are only checking if there is inface an issue at all. I don't like this...not one bit..I really love riding this as I will not take the extra risks of riding a two wheel so this is my only option. Just hopes this get resolved to my liking as it is just not the money but I really want to ride it .

[Smylinacha]

Well I have a problem with this whole thing.....

I was on the Spyderryder website which is www.spyder.brp.com. I go into "news" and what Lamont posted that he was passing on was not on their website. WHY NOT? I looked everywhere. If BRP wants to pass this on, then why not? I really don't think everyone who rydes a spyder is in a forum, wouldn't it be good for people who aren't involved in forums to know this? Maybe I'm wrong but I looked everywhere on their website.

Only thing I found under "News" was total crap - Question of the Week which was definitely not sent in by an owner or enthusiast - it's a "canned" question. Simple as sticking a tv dinner in the microwave - it's all there for ya - pre nuke directions and ready to go - read the questions in there - they are TOTALLY FREAKIN STUPID. Canned if you ask me. Almost peed my pants reading question of the week for 2/5. Come on? Like who gives a sh*t. This is such a joke.

Ask REAL questions. Put REAL NEWS in there - like what Lamont passed onto us. And if what Lamont passed onto to us is real news, then give us a time table. What "news" they passed thru Lamont doesn't say a damn thing.

[boborgera]

Well I have a problem with this whole thing.....

I was on the Spyderryder website which is www.spyder.brp.com. I go into "news" and what Lamont posted that he was passing on was not on their website. WHY NOT? I looked everywhere. If BRP wants to pass this on, then why not? I really don't think everyone who rydes a spyder is in a forum, wouldn't it be good for people who aren't involved in forums to know this? Maybe I'm wrong but I looked everywhere on their website.

Only thing I found under "News" was total crap - Question of the Week which was definitely not sent in by an owner or enthusiast - it's a "canned" question. Simple as sticking a tv dinner in the microwave - it's all there for ya - pre nuke directions and ready to go - read the questions in there - they are TOTALLY FREAKIN STUPID. Canned if you ask me. Almost peed my pants reading question of the week for 2/5. Come on? Like who gives a sh*t. This is such a joke.

Ask REAL questions. Put REAL NEWS in there - like what Lamont passed onto us. And if what Lamont passed onto to us is real news, then give us a time table. What "news" they passed thru Lamont doesn't say a damn thing.

Said it once I'll say it again, BRP hopes 08/09 owners will soon fade away
BRP is into selling new and more expensive Spyders.
Even this forum is starting to turn into two forums = GS and RTS

BRP knows that most everyone who owns a Spyder is not on any forum's

Just my opinion maybe I'm wrong, Hey i still think the world is flat.

[Firefly]

The Spyder Ryder site is one of their various advertising mediums - not a 'forum' where information is shared like this is over here. This whole thread is probably a good example as to why BRP won't run an 'official' forum - it could be a legal nightmare for them. From a corporate standpoint I can easily understand why they wouldn't post such negative information about the Spyder on that site - especially since it has not affected most Spyders.

Every 08 and 09 owner in North America was notified about the steering recall quite some time ago. I can't remember exactly when the cutoff was for these notifications - but they did send them out. There really shouldn't be any 08 or 09 Spyder owners that are unaware of the recall.

I'm not saying they're handling everything perfectly - but spreading unnecessary panic about what has happened to a very small amount of Spyders would be corporate hari-kari.

Those still having problems need to put big pressure on BRP and their dealers to get them fixed. Those that don't have the problem - or had it fixed should be happy. If you're really that unhappy with the Spyder or BRP, perhaps selling it or trading it in is the best option for you.

Being alert about potential problems is one thing, but I don't see how spreading panic helps at all.

[jwfranklin]

....anyone else get the feeling that BRP is going to put more effort into selling RT's at Bike Week in Daytona, than in "trying to understand the nature of our steering complaints"? ......

While in Daytona in a few weeks, I plan to go to the Spyder demo tent mainly to see a blue RT in person. I am thinking seriously about a blue RT. But I will ask anyone I talk to about the DPS problem. I also will not purchase a RT untill the DPS problem is solved, not really because I'm worried about a RT broblem. But I'm not going to give any of my money to a company that appears to care so little about their customers. Lets face it the only power we have over any corporation is our dollars, they already have the money from our GS's. Why do you think Toyota is doing such a job to get there recalls handled, there sales our down over 20%. I wish everyone would take this postion, then something might get done.

[TexasTripod]

I'm taking mine in tomorrow because I'm having the steering problems now after 8500 miles. Like many people I didn't bring it in immediately after the recall notice came out because; (1) Ididnt have a problem at that time (2) It seems like those that took their Spyder's in for the recall were getting them back with even more problems!! I'm also one of the people that hasn't filed a report with NHTSA because I owe it to BRP to get at least ONE and I repeat ONE chance to correct the problem. The Spyder has been in production long enough for this problem to be resolved on the first try and I have no desire to keep renting a trailer to haul this thing back and forth to the Dealer! If the problem is corrected then I will be one of the first to acknowledge BRP and the Dealership on a job well done. If on the other hand the problem re-occurs I will be one of the first to contact the Attorney Generals Office in Texas. I will keep everyone posted on the outcome.

[rnet]

I'm taking mine in tomorrow because I'm having the steering problems now after 8500 miles. Like many people I didn't bring it in immediately after the recall notice came out because; (1) Ididnt have a problem at that time (2) It seems like those that took their Spyder's in for the recall were getting them back with even more problems!! I'm also one of the people that hasn't filed a report with NHTSA because I owe it to BRP to get at least ONE and I repeat ONE chance to correct the problem. The Spyder has been in production long enough for this problem to be resolved on the first try and I have no desire to keep renting a trailer to haul this thing back and forth to the Dealer! If the problem is corrected then I will be one of the first to acknowledge BRP and the Dealership on a job well done. If on the other hand the problem re-occurs I will be one of the first to contact the Attorney Generals Office in Texas. I will keep everyone posted on the outcome.

You should still post with the NHTSA. It might save someones a$$, maybe even your own.

[NancysToy]

I'm taking mine in tomorrow because I'm having the steering problems now after 8500 miles. Like many people I didn't bring it in immediately after the recall notice came out because; (1) Ididnt have a problem at that time (2) It seems like those that took their Spyder's in for the recall were getting them back with even more problems!! I'm also one of the people that hasn't filed a report with NHTSA because I owe it to BRP to get at least ONE and I repeat ONE chance to correct the problem. The Spyder has been in production long enough for this problem to be resolved on the first try and I have no desire to keep renting a trailer to haul this thing back and forth to the Dealer! If the problem is corrected then I will be one of the first to acknowledge BRP and the Dealership on a job well done. If on the other hand the problem re-occurs I will be one of the first to contact the Attorney Generals Office in Texas. I will keep everyone posted on the outcome.

You are right in that BRP should get a chance to fix the problem. Unfortunately, they do not report the problems, so the NHTSA never gets a true picture of the extent of these difficulties. In your case, because you have not had the recall performed, I agree that you should not report it, because that has been addressed by the recall. It is not exactly the same issue that has caused the DPS replacements, although it has similar symptoms. On the other hand, if you experience problems after the update, those should be reported to the NHTSA...and your dealer (BRP) should have a chance to address those, too. It is a different (or unseen) problem, magnified by the initial recall. These are the important ones to report, since I don't think the NHTSA quite understands that they are happening after the initial recall repairs.

[mike3069]

You are right in that BRP should get a chance to fix the problem. Unfortunately, they do not report the problems, so the NHTSA never gets a true picture of the extent of these difficulties. In your case, because you have not had the recall performed, I agree that you should not report it, because that has been addressed by the recall. It is not exactly the same issue that has caused the DPS replacements, although it has similar symptoms. On the other hand, if you experience problems after the update, those should be reported to the NHTSA...and your dealer (BRP) should have a chance to address those, too. It is a different (or unseen) problem, magnified by the initial recall. These are the important ones to report, since I don't think the NHTSA quite understands that they are happening after the initial recall repairs.

Very well put Scotty.

[Smylinacha]

You should still post with the NHTSA. It might save someones a$$, maybe even your own.

[Firefly]

That's the entire point Dan. Our Spyder has had some parts changed, but no one (BRP)can say that it is "fixed", if they can't tell us what was/is wrong with it in the first place. They won't even admit there is a problem, how am I supposed to believe it's all better now? They put a couple new DPS's in, and released it to us when the second one didn't immediately trigger fault codes. When I asked directly, what was wrong with our original, and the first replacement unit, no one had any idea. I was told they would 'open it up and get back to me'. That was last Oct/Nov. I'm still waiting........

I don't remember your circumstances, but was the steering problem you experienced early on the same 'locking' that others are experiencing now? If not, you're not making a fair comparison of the issues.....Let's keep it 'apples to apples'....

I don't think anyone here is unhappy with the Spyder, we're not comfortable with the way BRP has and continues to handle the problem. This isn't just a little inconvenience, it could have potentially fatal results......

Your suggestion to ''put big pressure on BRP'' is EXACTLY what many of us are doing......why would you tell us to trade our Spyder's and go away in the same breath? Sorry if YOU don't like the rants, or if you feel our complaints detract from YOUR purchase, just be glad that you don't ride a Spyder that randomly tries to steer itself.....We purchased the Spyder for reasons that haven't changed, I'm more inclined to hold the manufacturer responsible for the failings of a $17,000 vehicle, than to dump it and run away.....

If those that have the problem had more support from those that haven't had it yet, maybe BRP WOULD feel more pressure, and be more inclined to address the problem.....

....anyone else get the feeling that BRP is going to put more effort into selling RT's at Bike Week in Daytona, than in "trying to understand the nature of our steering complaints"? ......

Mine was 'steering lock' - just like many of you have had.

So is your Spyder still having problems?

I was under the impression that yours was no longer having problems?

I consider mine fixed. Do I really need to know exactly which part or software update it was? No - I personally don't. They did the GPS switch and then the software updates. It could be that either fixed the problem, or the combination - either way I consider it 'fixed'. If it acts up again I would assume they would put a new DPS in. Troubleshooting such technical things can be very time-consuming and swapping entire systems and parts is pretty much the industry standard now.

Do you really need to know exactly which change they made actually 'fixed' it? That's entirely your prerogative, but I don't think you'll ever get the 'solid' answer that you're looking for. I think you're setting yourself up for continued disappointment as the answer may very well be 'they don't know'.

It seems that you'll never trust your Spyder again - and perhaps with good reason - and if that's the case I would probably sell it and move on. The excess worry and concern wouldn't be worth it to me.

If they have replaced the DPS, GPS and done all the software updates and you're not having problems - then you're essentially back to 'factory new' and I *personally* would consider it fixed.

I hope you can find what will make you 'happy' , but I don't see any outcome that will satisfy your requirements. If they came out and said it was a bad flux capacitor from Guam that was used in some DPS units - I'm guessing you wouldn't believe them at this point.

I think your personal quest to know exactly what was wrong will never be fulfilled and thus will just continue to give you license to complain - which I guess is fine if that's what you enjoy--- but it gets kind of old out here for some of us.

Peace!

(BTW - no--I don't miss him one bit - never felt better as an American right now.)

[moroccomole2004]

Firefly you could not have said it any better. I love my Spyder and have trust in my dealership and BRP. I am sorry for those who have had a bad experience.

Mole

[gnkc]

I'm taking mine in tomorrow because I'm having the steering problems now after 8500 miles. Like many people I didn't bring it in immediately after the recall notice came out because; (1) Ididnt have a problem at that time (2) It seems like those that took their Spyder's in for the recall were getting them back with even more problems!! I'm also one of the people that hasn't filed a report with NHTSA because I owe it to BRP to get at least ONE and I repeat ONE chance to correct the problem. The Spyder has been in production long enough for this problem to be resolved on the first try and I have no desire to keep renting a trailer to haul this thing back and forth to the Dealer! If the problem is corrected then I will be one of the first to acknowledge BRP and the Dealership on a job well done. If on the other hand the problem re-occurs I will be one of the first to contact the Attorney Generals Office in Texas. I will keep everyone posted on the outcome.

My steering locked up prior to having the update and I too did not plan on nor did I want the update, but I had no choice once the steering failed. The dealer did the update and it didn't help so they replaced the DPS. It took a long time to get the part. BRP paid the dealer to trailer my bike--twice. My feeling was that it was BRP's problem and transporting it at their expense should be part of the deal. You should look into this. I can't tell you if they fixed mine since it will probably be another month and a half to get rid of the cold weather and snow before I can ride again, but I will insist that BRP continue to pay for transport if it is not right. The dealer has been responsive to all of this, but the brunt of it is really BRP. I was surprised by the tone of their recent statement. My outcome is still a work in progress...

[Smylinacha]

Don't know if my is fixed as I only rode it once to NY State after I got it back. The steering did feel different though - can't say good or bad but "different" - almost like MORE power steering? Hard to explain. And I don't count one ryde to say it has been all fixed. And nobody told me it is fixed. Nobody told me why it broke in the first place. Yup - had all the updates and it happened after I had them.

About you not missing Him. I feel great being an American too - we all have choices to like who we end up with or vote them all out in 2012. We'll see what happens then. Anyway I think 2010 and 2011 will be quite interesting!

Mine was 'steering lock' - just like many of you have had.

So is your Spyder still having problems?

I was under the impression that yours was no longer having problems?

I consider mine fixed. Do I really need to know exactly which part or software update it was? No - I personally don't. They did the GPS switch and then the software updates. It could be that either fixed the problem, or the combination - either way I consider it 'fixed'. If it acts up again I would assume they would put a new DPS in. Troubleshooting such technical things can be very time-consuming and swapping entire systems and parts is pretty much the industry standard now.

Do you really need to know exactly which change they made actually 'fixed' it? That's entirely your prerogative, but I don't think you'll ever get the 'solid' answer that you're looking for. I think you're setting yourself up for continued disappointment as the answer may very well be 'they don't know'.

It seems that you'll never trust your Spyder again - and perhaps with good reason - and if that's the case I would probably sell it and move on. The excess worry and concern wouldn't be worth it to me.

If they have replaced the DPS, GPS and done all the software updates and you're not having problems - then you're essentially back to 'factory new' and I *personally* would consider it fixed.

I hope you can find what will make you 'happy' , but I don't see any outcome that will satisfy your requirements. If they came out and said it was a bad flux capacitor from Guam that was used in some DPS units - I'm guessing you wouldn't believe them at this point.

I think your personal quest to know exactly what was wrong will never be fulfilled and thus will just continue to give you license to complain - which I guess is fine if that's what you enjoy--- but it gets kind of old out here for some of us.

Peace!

(BTW - no--I don't miss him one bit - never felt better as an American right now.)

[WaltH]

If I were a BRP engineer, I too would want to know the exact cause of the steering problems. I could not know for sure that I had a proper "fix" for the problems, if I didn't know the exact cause. The "fix" must eliminate the cause.

I would like to buy a blue RT, but this will not happen until I know the exact cause of the steering problems and what the exact "fix" will be.

[Firefly]

It seems to me that your entire premise about my motivations are couched in your own assumptions of what my goals are........You couldn't be further off the mark.

My "license to complain" is actually a very real concern for my wife's safety and well being. If BRP can't tell me what was wrong with our Spyder, then they can't possibly tell me that it is fixed. When we purchased it, BRP extolled the virtues of all the safety features. Now we don't know how safe (or dangerous) it is......and BRP won't tell us.....

I don't know if you have a wife or kids, but for me at least, it's important to try and protect my family as well as I can. When the Spyder we purchased for its many safety features, ends up being substantially less safe than it was marketed as, I have every right to be offended. When it directly affects my wife's personal safety, I have even more right to be offended. When I'm offended, I WILL talk about it. I'm not the only one here that feels this way....

So, if other people's ongoing DPS issues don't concern you, how about just moving on? If the thread title clearly contains -DPS- in it, why bother reading it if it only annoys you? And why do you continue to post in threads that don't interest you, and are "getting old"? Maybe you just like to complain about people that have legitimate things to complain about?

Or maybe you should sell or trade YOUR Spyder and just move on if other people's troubles are that bothersome to you....Then you can find a new forum that won't contain any DPS threads.....



.....and they all lived happily everafter....

Well---- I guess we just see things differently. I see the glass as half full and hate to see people turned off about buying or riding a Spyder because of a few dozen or so steering problems.

I fully understand your concerns for your wife - which is why I really think I would sell the Spyder if I were in your shoes. At this point in what you've been through - I don't see that you'll ever have good confidence in the Spyder or BRP. Too bad---but perfectly understandable.

As far as on-going DPS problems - sure they are important - but it appeared to me that yours were no longer on-going? Perhaps you don't have enough miles on your Spyder to feel that way--- which would be perfectly understandable. Not sure what your level of comfort will be? 500 miles? 1,000 miles? 5000 miles? From your posts it sounds like you won't be happy until they pinpoint the exact reason---- which I'm really doubting they ever will.

I can't prescribe to the idea of 'they don't know what was broken so they can't fix it'. If all the parts were replaced and it's working-- then it's fixed. This is really common in today's world of troubleshooting - especially with electronics. Local troubleshooting is a thing of the past - they swap parts, ship them back to the factory where they can deal with it there. This *generally* works well and gets the end user up and running sooner. Obviously BRP has had issues with replacement parts and long down-times for a dozen or so out here.

I really do feel for those without getting fixed and do like to keep abreast of what they are going through.

I guess I'm more of a 'assume it's fixed' thinker since it's no longer showing the steering problems instead of an 'assume it's still broken' thinker. At least that's how I look at mine. Again---- glass half full (hopefully of some tasty beer!).

I think there's around a 1/2 dozen out here that did decide to move on from the Spyder - for various reasons. Some had various problems, some steering, electrical, etc. I don't blame them a bit.

I'm still amazed about the amount of crap Deb & Brian went through. Talk about someone that should have a license to go postal on BRP, yet they don't. WOW.

I really hope you can find what you're looking for--- I'm just doubting it's going to be made by BRP. Sometimes you can get a bad taste in your mouth that just won't go away. We all have certain brands or stores that we feel that way about.

Hopefully you really are 'fixed' and can post some positive feedback after a few thousand miles.

[Firefly]

Don't know if my is fixed as I only rode it once to NY State after I got it back. The steering did feel different though - can't say good or bad but "different" - almost like MORE power steering? Hard to explain. And I don't count one ryde to say it has been all fixed. And nobody told me it is fixed. Nobody told me why it broke in the first place. Yup - had all the updates and it happened after I had them.

About you not missing Him. I feel great being an American too - we all have choices to like who we end up with or vote them all out in 2012. We'll see what happens then. Anyway I think 2010 and 2011 will be quite interesting!

Mine felt 'different' too after the updates last year--- different in a good way. Easier to steer, etc. Considering it's all new guts they put in yours--- one should expect it to function like new--- hopefully it will!
__________________

Yup-- voting is the only power we individuals really have. Vote them in to do a job - see how they do - and then hold them accountable next time we vote!

[D&J's#2]

Thanks for posting the info Lamont. I appreciate it.

[Firefly]

BTW, I'm done discussing this with you.

Good!

Most sane people would be happy their Spyder is FIXED. But there's just no pleasing some people I guess.

Do us all a favor--- sell your Spyder and go to the dark side like RH did --- we'll all be much happier.