2011 RS SE5 Won't start/shift to Neutral - anyone have shifter wiring schematics?

[Cadaverdog]

Still having troubles! Bike wouldn't start. Neutral light off. Tried manually shifting into neutral by rotating shift lever counterclockwise with wrench. Won't budge. Disconnected shifting shaft. Shifted into neutral by turning shifting lever counterclockwise with wrench. Neutral on. Bike starts. Tried reverse using paddle shifter with shaft disconnected. Shift moves forward. Tried shifting into neutral with paddle shifter. Shaft moves back. Reconnected shifter shaft. Neutral light on. Bike starts. Shift into reverse with paddle shifter. Works as it should, Try to shift into neutral. Nothing happens. Try shifting into neutral with wrench with shifter shaft connected. Won't budge. Disconnect shaft. Check fuses. Fuses good. Test battery. Battery good. Purchase service manual. Replace shifter. Start bike. No shift forward or reverse. Disconnect shifter. Check input. No electrical input found. Check fuses again. Fuses good. Can't find shifter in schematics. Does anyone have schematic showing shifter wiring? Engine light on now. Tried resetting by disconnecting battery and leaving off for a couple hours. Restart bike, Engine light still on. Can't see codes. LCD display doesn't work. Any suggestions?

[Peter Aawen]

Still having troubles! Bike won't start. Neutral light off. Tried manually shifting into neutral by rotating shift lever counterclockwise. Won't budge. Disconnected shifting shaft. Shifted into neutral by turning shifting lever counterclockwise with wrench. Neutral on. Bike starts. Tried reverse using paddle shifter with shaft disconnected. Shift moves forward. Tried shifting into neutral with paddle shifter. Shaft moves back. Reconnected shifter shaft. Neutral light on. Bike starts. Shift into reverse with paddle shifter. Works as it should, Try to shift into neutral. Nothing happens. Try shifting into neutral with wrench with shifter shaft connected. Won't budge. Disconnect shaft. Check fuses. Fuses good. Test battery. Battery good. Purchase service manual. Replace shifter. Start bike. No shift forward or reverse. Disconnect shifter. Check input. No electrical input found. Check fuses again. Fuses good. Can't find shifter in schematics. Does anyone have schematic showing shifter wiring? Engine light on now. Tried resetting by disconnecting battery and leaving off for a couple hours. Restart bike, Engine light still on. Can't see codes. LCD display doesn't work. Any suggestions?

When you say 'Battery Good', what exactly do you mean?? 'Good' is a pretty subjective term, can you actually put some voltage figures to that??

We are operating remote here, and our diagnosis/help can only be as good as the info you feed us! Actual voltage figures can help point us in the right direction, and do bear in mind that these Spyders are MUCH MORE power hungry than most other 12volt vehicles - a battery that might be deemed 'Good' on your daily driver sedan could well be too tired to operate let alone start a Spyder, and from the limited definitive info you'v e been giving us, this STILL sounds very much like a dead &/or dying battery - and even brand new batteries can be too tired to start a Spyder!!

I've found on quite a few Spyders now where the voltage during testing before, while starting/cranking, and while running dropped marginally below 12 volts, but remained high enough to be deemed 'good' for the average car, only these Spyder operators were experiencing pretty much EXACTLY the same problems you've described - sometimes the owner's local mechanic/auto electrician has re-tested and insisted that the battery load test showed it was 'good'!! However, once tested to reveal the ACTUAL voltages experienced under cranking and starting loads, when the Spyder battery is trying to start up a bunch of computers, electronic systems, lights, gear selection solenoids etc, etc, etc, AND turn the starter motor over all at the same time, such that the battery voltage dropped to just a little below 12 volts, the start is quite likely to fail!! Not on just one Spyder either, but on MANY Spyders now, and somewhat surprisingly, on waaaayyy too many NEW Spyders &/or Spyders with NEW batteries!!

So can you put some actual figures/voltage readings to that 'battery good' diagnosis?? AFAICS, doing that can only help us to help you! It certainly could be an issue actually IN the gearbox &/or the clutch itself, but until we truly know that it's not the battery, pretty much anything else we can offer is just a SWAG!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

with Peter ..... to save time and money try this ... connect the Spyder battery with jumper cables from your car or pick-up .... leave vehicle OFF .... see what happens with the Spyder ..... good luck ... Mike

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Well, Dog..I’m just going to have to give it to you straight. I’m sorry if I sound mean, but except for the legacy issue of your center display not working, everything else has been self inflicted. It all started when you grabbed a wrench. It’s fundamental. You have to know how to start your bike.

Any SE5, or SE6 for that matter, can be started in ANY gear. If you happen to turn off your Spyder when it’s still in gear, it stays in gear. The reason for that is that there is no hydraulic oil pressure available to shift it back to neutral. There is no oil pressure because the engine isn’t running. You can push the paddle shifter all you want, nothing is going to happen, nor is it supposed to. You have to get the engine started again, and here is the correct way.

The interlock for starting the engine regarding the gearbox is:

Gearbox in Neutral, OR, brake pedal depressed.

So, if you turn off the bike with it still in gear, you don’t need to go running for a wrench. You just need to put your foot on the brake.

- WITH the brake pedal depressed, perform a normal engine startup.
- AFTER the engine starts, THEN hydraulic oil pressure increases. (the hydraulic oil pump is engine driven)
- AFTER hydraulic oil pressure increases, THEN the gearbox is automatically shifted to Neutral. You don’t have to touch a thing. No paddle shifter - nothing. It all happens in the blink of an eye.

It’s not a battery problem if you have enough battery to start the engine in the first place. So forget that. Let’s continue….

The left hand switch on your handlebars is a CAN Bus module, in and of itself. That means that it is part of the computer’s communication system. Most of the functions of the switch assembly just feed commands into the computers. Paddle shift operation is fed to the Transmission Control Module. It’s NOT directly wired - with 12 volts - to the Hydraulic Control Module. There’s no schematic for that circuit. It’s all CAN Bus signals. The only thing that is directly wired on that left hand switch assembly is the horn button. Well, I’m not sure about the headlight switch on yours. But that’s it. All other functions are CAN Bus.

The Transmission Control Module then operates the solenoid valves on the Hydraulic Control Module. The solenoid valves control the flow and direction of hydraulic oil to the hydraulic piston. One direction for upshift, the other for downshift. Plus, there is clutch operation that it also controls. Nothing happens unless the Transmission Control Module says it can happen. It’s all computerized. There’s no schematic.

The rest of your explanation is just about as clear as mud. You took stuff apart when you didn’t need to. We don’t know if it’s back together correctly, don’t know where or why you’re taking these voltage readings, don’t know if you have the engine running or brake depressed when needed, and don’t know what else you broke in the process. And it appears that you’ve blown up something additional given that you now have more warning lights than you started with. The very fact that you’re asking for a shifter wiring schematic shows that you’re way behind the learning curve with a long way to go learning how that thing works. You can’t get it all from an internet forum.

So, good luck with this. I’m too anal and frustrated to help any further. And maybe I didn’t help. At this point, it just needs to be hooked up to BUDS to see if everything with the Left Hand Switch, TCM and HCM is healthy, and to find out what the fault codes are. BUDS can test all of this stuff. I’m glad that you got a repair manual. A good place to start reading is Page 1. Sorry.

[Knizar]

Doug, Tell it like it is! I commend you sir for explaining how these machines work. Hope a few others on this forum will let your explanation soak in. Bill

[Cadaverdog]

with Peter ..... to save time and money try this ... connect the Spyder battery with jumper cables from your car or pick-up .... leave vehicle OFF .... see what happens with the Spyder ..... good luck ... Mike

I tried that. No change.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Doug that explanation was spot on ....however I think you might be ...I hope I'm wrong .....Mike

[Cadaverdog]

When you say 'Battery Good', what exactly do you mean?? 'Good' is a pretty subjective term, can you actually put some voltage figures to that??

We are operating remote here, and our diagnosis/help can only be as good as the info you feed us! Actual voltage figures can help point us in the right direction, and do bear in mind that these Spyders are MUCH MORE power hungry than most other 12volt vehicles - a battery that might be deemed 'Good' on your daily driver sedan could well be too tired to operate let alone start a Spyder, and from the limited definitive info you'v e been giving us, this STILL sounds very much like a dead &/or dying battery - and even brand new batteries can be too tired to start a Spyder!!

I've found on quite a few Spyders now where the voltage during testing before, while starting/cranking, and while running dropped marginally below 12 volts, but remained high enough to be deemed 'good' for the average car, only these Spyder operators were experiencing pretty much EXACTLY the same problems you've described - sometimes the owner's local mechanic/auto electrician has re-tested and insisted that the battery load test showed it was 'good'!! However, once tested to reveal the ACTUAL voltages experienced under cranking and starting loads, when the Spyder battery is trying to start up a bunch of computers, electronic systems, lights, gear selection solenoids etc, etc, etc, AND turn the starter motor over all at the same time, such that the battery voltage dropped to just a little below 12 volts, the start is quite likely to fail!! Not on just one Spyder either, but on MANY Spyders now, and somewhat surprisingly, on waaaayyy too many NEW Spyders &/or Spyders with NEW batteries!!

So can you put some actual figures/voltage readings to that 'battery good' diagnosis?? AFAICS, doing that can only help us to help you! It certainly could be an issue actually IN the gearbox &/or the clutch itself, but until we truly know that it's not the battery, pretty much anything else we can offer is just a SWAG!

I took the battery to my mechanic. He's a younger dude but he already owns his own shop. He used a battery tester that tests the voltage, amps, etc. under load. I didn't write the numbers down but I had already hooked jumper cables to it from my truck and tried it before I had it tested.

[Cadaverdog]

Doug that explanation was spot on ....however I think you might be ...I hope I'm wrong .....Mike

I admit I was being hard headed about not testing the battery when you suggested that when I first started working on it, but I did hook jumper cables from my truck to the battery on my bike, depressed the brake lever and tried to start it. Nothing happened. I took the battery out and charged it. Reinstalled it. Attempted to start it again with brake lever depressed. Nothing happened. Hooked up the jumper cables again. Depressed the brake. Hit the mode button. Turned the key, nothing happened. I tried manually shifting the bike into neutral with a 13mm wrench because the service manual suggests it. Before I purchased a service manual, I saw the same suggestion in this or another Spyder forum. The service manual also says to disconnect the shifter shaft if the transmission won't shift with the shifter shaft connected. After I manually shifted it into neutral and it started, I let the bike run until the fan kicked on. Shut it off and checked the oil. Which I do before every ride unless the previous ride was just up the street and back. While it was warming up, I reconnected the shifting shaft. Before I shut it off, I tried shifting it using the paddle shifter. Nothing happened. I don't think it's unreasonable to be skeptical that the battery isn't the problem if the bike won't shift with the motor running. But I still took the battery out and had it tested. Since the battery tested fine using a tester that tested under load, I figured it was time to start looking elsewhere. I wasted an hour or two trying to fabricate a manual shifter but after a little thought I decided to go back to attempting to fixing it the right way. Since I wasn't sure what to do next, I went ahead and purchased a new paddle shifter and installed it. Since that didn't work and I was unaware the paddle shifter didn't work like a light switch, I checked the plug it plugs into looking for input voltage. I was an electronics technician in the Navy 40 years ago, but technology has changed quite a bit since then. I assume I will end up taking this to a shop eventually, but I just had a new transmission installed in my truck. I'm a little short on extra cash right now.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Cadaverdog, I would reach out to " PMK " (a member here - lives in Fl.) He has been very, very, helpful to other members.... He has BUDS and knows how to use it .... good luck ...Mike

[Cadaverdog]

Well, Dog..I’m just going to have to give it to you straight. I’m sorry if I sound mean, but except for the legacy issue of your center display not working, everything else has been self inflicted. It all started when you grabbed a wrench. It’s fundamental. You have to know how to start your bike.

Any SE5, or SE6 for that matter, can be started in ANY gear. If you happen to turn off your Spyder when it’s still in gear, it stays in gear. The reason for that is that there is no hydraulic oil pressure available to shift it back to neutral. There is no oil pressure because the engine isn’t running. You can push the paddle shifter all you want, nothing is going to happen, nor is it supposed to. You have to get the engine started again, and here is the correct way.

The interlock for starting the engine regarding the gearbox is:

Gearbox in Neutral, OR, brake pedal depressed.

So, if you turn off the bike with it still in gear, you don’t need to go running for a wrench. You just need to put your foot on the brake.

- WITH the brake pedal depressed, perform a normal engine startup.
- AFTER the engine starts, THEN hydraulic oil pressure increases. (the hydraulic oil pump is engine driven)
- AFTER hydraulic oil pressure increases, THEN the gearbox is automatically shifted to Neutral. You don’t have to touch a thing. No paddle shifter - nothing. It all happens in the blink of an eye.

It’s not a battery problem if you have enough battery to start the engine in the first place. So forget that. Let’s continue….

The left hand switch on your handlebars is a CAN Bus module, in and of itself. That means that it is part of the computer’s communication system. Most of the functions of the switch assembly just feed commands into the computers. Paddle shift operation is fed to the Transmission Control Module. It’s NOT directly wired - with 12 volts - to the Hydraulic Control Module. There’s no schematic for that circuit. It’s all CAN Bus signals. The only thing that is directly wired on that left hand switch assembly is the horn button. Well, I’m not sure about the headlight switch on yours. But that’s it. All other functions are CAN Bus.

The Transmission Control Module then operates the solenoid valves on the Hydraulic Control Module. The solenoid valves control the flow and direction of hydraulic oil to the hydraulic piston. One direction for upshift, the other for downshift. Plus, there is clutch operation that it also controls. Nothing happens unless the Transmission Control Module says it can happen. It’s all computerized. There’s no schematic.

The rest of your explanation is just about as clear as mud. You took stuff apart when you didn’t need to. We don’t know if it’s back together correctly, don’t know where or why you’re taking these voltage readings, don’t know if you have the engine running or brake depressed when needed, and don’t know what else you broke in the process. And it appears that you’ve blown up something additional given that you now have more warning lights than you started with. The very fact that you’re asking for a shifter wiring schematic shows that you’re way behind the learning curve with a long way to go learning how that thing works. You can’t get it all from an internet forum.

So, good luck with this. I’m too anal and frustrated to help any further. And maybe I didn’t help. At this point, it just needs to be hooked up to BUDS to see if everything with the Left Hand Switch, TCM and HCM is healthy, and to find out what the fault codes are. BUDS can test all of this stuff. I’m glad that you got a repair manual. A good place to start reading is Page 1. Sorry.

Thanx for the reply but I did do some research first. When I noticed the neutral light wasn't on when I tried to start it, I assumed I forgot to shift the bike into neutral gear the last time I rode it. Maybe I did. Or the shifter didn't respond when I pulled back on the paddle, and I didn't notice. The shifter had acted up before. Assuming it was in gear I consulted the internet. If I had found the correct procedure for starting a Spyder that was left in gear, I would have tried that first. But I found someone on a Spyder forum that had experienced the same thing and recommended manually shifting the bike into neutral. So I tried that. When it wouldn't budge, the logical thing to do was unhook the linkage and try it again. I did. It worked. After the bike warmed up, I shut it off and checked the oil. It was full. Since a worn-out shifter seems to be a common problem, I ordered a new one. After removing a few panels and the console, I found where the shifter plugs in under the headlights. I unplugged it and plugged the new one in after fishing the wiring through the tunnel underneath the instrument panel. I didn't have to cut or splice anything. I seriously doubt I could have damaged it or anything else doing that. I doubt I could have damaged anything unhooking the shifter linkage considering that it's a part of a recommended procedure to troubleshoot shifting problems in the service manual. You assume I made the problem worse or caused another problem trying to fix it. The check engine light came on last time I started it with the new shifter installed. The check engine light has come on before for no apparent reason. All I have to do to reset it most of the time is shut the motor off and restart it. I know I didn't make it any worse because I didn't do anything that could have made it worse. That being said I have accepted the fact that I'm probably going to have to pay someone with the proper testing equipment to fix it, but since I can't afford to do that right now, I'm going to continue trying to figure it out myself by reading the service manual and asking questions.

[Cadaverdog]

Cadaverdog, I would reach out to " PMK " (a member here - lives in Fl.) He has been very, very, helpful to other members.... He has BUDS and knows how to use it .... good luck ...Mike

Thank you. I had to put a new transmission in my truck last month, so I don't have a lot of spare cash on hand right now. I can use all the help I can get or this thing's going to be sitting around collecting smaller spiders for a while. I keep it under cover under a pergola in my front yard. Spiders and other insects seem to be attracted to it. Especially those nasty looking banana spiders we have here in Florida.

[Leaping1]

I have a 2011 RT-S and had similar problems. My bike did all sort of crazy things. Cranking then running rough and shutting off. All kind of lights lighting up in the dash. My problem boiled down to a shifter arm that was worn. Double check the shifter arm because it is softer metal and could be causing you some of your problems. The shifter arm is around $40.00 +/- and it solved my problem. Good luck.
Leon

[Cadaverdog]

I have a 2011 RT-S and had similar problems. My bike did all sort of crazy things. Cranking then running rough and shutting off. All kind of lights lighting up in the dash. My problem boiled down to a shifter arm that was worn. Double check the shifter arm because it is softer metal and could be causing you some of your problems. The shifter arm is around $40.00 +/- and it solved my problem. Good luck.
Leon

One of the first things I did. Gear shift rod and shifter lever are in pristine condition. Splines on clutch shaft same.

[Mikey]

After reading and rereading this thread and all the comments made, if I was you, I would put it away till you can afford to take it to a shop and have it looked at. There is an electrical gremlin in there somewhere, and all you're doing is throwing parts, time, and frustrations at it. It could be as simple as a safety switch, bad plug, or whatever! BUDS will probably find it, or point you in the right direction. You have had some very good advice, by some very smart people here, and if you have followed what they said and are still coming up short, it's time to step back! Good Luck. I hope you kick that gremlin in the butt soon and get on that thing and ride it!!

[Cadaverdog]

After reading and rereading this thread and all the comments made, if I was you, I would put it away till you can afford to take it to a shop and have it looked at. There is an electrical gremlin in there somewhere, and all you're doing is throwing parts, time, and frustrations at it. It could be as simple as a safety switch, bad plug, or whatever! BUDS will probably find it, or point you in the right direction. You have had some very good advice, by some very smart people here, and if you have followed what they said and are still coming up short, it's time to step back! Good Luck. I hope you kick that gremlin in the butt soon and get on that thing and ride it!!

I appreciate the advice and I pretty much agree but that won't stop me from continuing to see if I can figure this out while I'm having to wait until I have a few more dollars in my bank account before I can afford to take it to a Can Am mechanic. I don't regret replacing the shifter to attempt to fix the problem because a bad shifter seems to be a common problem with some of the older Spyders but I don't plan on replacing anything else unless I know for sure there's something wrong with it. Once I got the bike started and it still wouldn't shift I was pretty sure the battery wasn't the problem but I took it out and had it tested anyway. My mechanic tested it under load and said it was fine.

Seeking BUDS owners here:

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...53#post1700953

[Cadaverdog]

Late thought there were few managed to reverse the HCM filter & other problems filter related.

I ignored this comment because I didn't understand it but it is possible the dealer didn't replace the HCM oil filter when they changed the oil when I purchased it. I'll order a new one and replace it and see if that changes anything.

[Cadaverdog]

Understanding is the SE defaults to N at start up. You were able to move manually helps but Sorry does not rule out splines being stripped on shift arm. Going into gear without proper input or RPM & addition of front tires not moving likely cause for shut off & flashers. (Yes, probably a code hidden somewhere & an E on the dash in the gear position). A good, fully charged battery with clean tight connections is always helpful. When was last oil & filters change? Maybe you want to consider acquiring a spare shift arm, just-in-case. Unfortunately, I'm on my 3rd arm with just lazy casual ryding. Yours might just need a lil' inspection & tightening That arm/spline is soft metal & will strip all to easily. Good Luck.

Several people have told me this. But the HCM uses oil pressure to shift the transmission. What it might do is shift into neutral after it starts. Today I shut the engine off while it was in reverse on purpose. It started but it didn't shift into neutral. It stayed in reverse.

[DickB]

Several people have told me this. But the HCM uses oil pressure to shift the transmission. What it might do is shift into neutral after it starts. Today I shut the engine off while it was in reverse on purpose. It started but it didn't shift into neutral. It stayed in reverse.

That's exactly the way it works. Based on all that you have said and we discussed, it would be good to check the oil pressure.

[Peter Aawen]

Late thought there were few managed to reverse the HCM filter & other problems filter related.

I ignored this comment because I didn't understand it but it is possible the dealer didn't replace the HCM oil filter when they changed the oil when I purchased it. I'll order a new one and replace it and see if that changes anything.

Several people have told me this. But the HCM uses oil pressure to shift the transmission. What it might do is shift into neutral after it starts. Today I shut the engine off while it was in reverse on purpose. It started but it didn't shift into neutral. It stayed in reverse.

That's exactly the way it works. Based on all that you have said and we discussed, it would be good to check the oil pressure.

Given what you've told us elsewhere about the way you check your oil, doing it before you ride and not waiting long enough until it's warm enough to get the level & volume right; and the fact that if the oil volume & pressure isn't pretty much EXACTLY RIGHT on these V-Twin Spyders, the computers on them can/will just refuse to shift at all; and with what you tell us you've already checked and hopefully eliminated; all of the above suggests that you may have an oil problem... pressure &/or volume - except that they do usually show codes when that sort of problem happens, at least, they do if it happens while you're riding; so if you haven't been able to ride &/or run the engine for too long in the recent past, then maybe...

So your 'failure to shift' issues could be oil pressure related, for any of number of reasons, including that possibly the HCM filter is the wrong one, &/or maybe it's inserted backwards, so that no oil pressure gets thru at all, but if the SE has changed gears when prompted by the flappy paddles at all since your last oil & filter change, then it's probably not that... But you don't necessarily need a new filter to check that, you could do it now!!

Or maybe running it with the incorrect volume of oil over a longish period (oil level/volume either too high when it's hot, or too low when it's hot; but you'll likely only see that if you do your oil level check after much longer than it takes to get the radiator cooling system up to fan operating temps; saaay, by running it for at least 30 mins of riding at Hwy revs/speeds with some gear changes up & down, etc.) due to using the incorrect checking process, means the lack/excess of oil volume could've damaged the scavenge &/or pressure pump/s; or possibly even just worn the seals; such that now the engine &/or trans is not getting suitable oil pressure/volume at the right time to even think about doing anything like shifting ...

Or maybe the LH Control Module (the Handgrip & selector) has just given up thru age & time or there's no signal getting thru to the TCM or HCM for some other reason...

My thoughts to proceed from where you are now would be to check the oil level properly, even if that means draining it all out and refilling with it just the correct quantity if you can't do the checking process correctly within a couple of minutes AFTERa ride; and checking the HCM filter by taking the cover off, removing it, and visually/physically ensuring it's relatively clean, the right length (there's a long & a short filter for these things, and some have put the short filter in the long housing - but your Spyder just won't change gear if you do that!! ) it'll probably be a tad less messy if the oil is drained when you do unscrew the cover... Oh, & IIRC, the 3 screws aren't all the same length, so you MUST put them back in the correct holes!

Only after doing all this ^^ would I start looking further afield - there's still things like wiring looms to check, connectors to ensure are properly connecting, and probably a bunch of other stuff you can do while you wait 'til you can get it to a dealer. Good Luck!

[Cadaverdog]

I'm fairly sure I run the bike long enough to properly check the oil. The operator's guide says run it for 30 seconds, shut it off and check it. I let it run till the fan comes on which takes a few minutes. I have checked it after I rode it a short distance and the level was the same as it was when I checked it before I rode it. I have never let it get less than halfway between full and add or overfilled it. I removed the HCM filter and inspected it. It was completely intact and looked fairly new. But I replaced it anyway. My filter cover only has two bolts and they're the same length. I replaced the paddle shifter.

[Cadaverdog]

That's exactly the way it works. Based on all that you have said and we discussed, it would be good to check the oil pressure.

This is probably a stupid question but the shop manual lists a specific part number oil pressure gauge 529 036 142 to use but I can't find one online. It's slightly different than a regular gauge. It has a return line. But I assume I can use one that doesn't have a return line as well. What do you think? I found a way to check the voltages from the TCM to the shift solenoids. I'm going to do that next.

[Peter Aawen]

I'm fairly sure I run the bike long enough to properly check the oil. The operator's guide says run it for 30 seconds, shut it off and check it. I let it run till the fan comes on which takes a few minutes. I have checked it after I rode it a short distance and the level was the same as it was when I checked it before I rode it. I have never let it get less than halfway between full and add or overfilled it. I removed the HCM filter and inspected it. It was completely intact and looked fairly new. But I replaced it anyway. My filter cover only has two bolts and they're the same length. I replaced the paddle shifter.

Oil takes a LOT longer than coolant to get up to its correct operating temperature, and it also expands a fair bit in volume while it does that - it NEEDS about 30 minutes of hwy type running or equivalent revs/duration to reach its full volume, anything less means there's probably still going to be some expansion coming (& therefore increased level on the dip-stick! ) as it eventually gets up to its full volume at its correct operating temperature...

I'm not sure where you found the 30 seconds run-time in the operator's guide, but if you look back thru the numerous threads discussing the V-Twin Oil checking process here on the Forum, you'll find quite a few posts detailing the correct procedure; I believe there's even some from BRP, and I'm pretty sure that none of them refer to running it for ONLY 30 seconds - unless they say to do that if you've stopped for longer than 2 minutes after already riding it long enough to bring the oil up to temperature??

There's a couple of things here that might be very important, the first being the amount of time it takes for oil to reach it's correct operating temperature and volume, which, as mentioned above, is significantly longer that it takes for the coolant to get up to temperature and it's also longer than it normally takes to trigger the fan; the second being that the dry-sump system on these things scavenges the oil out of the engine while it's running and circulates it thru the filters & into the reservoir (it may be the other way around, but it's immaterial which way it flows for this discussion) where it's held until pumped out & into circulation again. There is no non-return valve on the bottom of that reservoir, and the reservoir is higher than the lowest point in the engine. So AS SOON as you stop the engine, there's a very good likelihood that oil will gradually start draining back into the depths if the engine. This means that if you leave your Spyder to sit for any longer than a couple of minutes after shutting down from a good run, one long enough to bring the oil up to temp, the oil level in the reservoir will very likely have started to drop as oil drains out of the reservoir and the oil settles into the depths of the engine, in places where it's NEVER meant to sit for very long or in any quantity during operation!! This means that if you leave it overnight or longer, and then only check the oil before you run it again, or even if you have run it for a little bit but not for long enough to get the oil properly up to temp and volume, there's a very good chance that the indicated level in the reservoir is WRONG!! And that might be critical to the continued well-being of your engine, especially in the long run!

Just Sayin' But who knows... We are trying to help you, only it's awfully hard trying to diagnose/resolve issues like this over the internet.

[Cadaverdog]

Oil takes a LOT longer than coolant to get up to its correct operating temperature, and it also expands a fair bit in volume while it does that - NEEDS about 30 minutes of hwy type running to reach its full volume, anything less means there's probably still going to be some expansion (& therefore increased level on the dip-stick! ) as it eventually gets up to its full volume at its correct operating temperature...

I'm not sure where you found the 30 seconds run-time in the operator's guide, but if you look back thru the numerous threads discussing the V-Twin Oil checking process here on the Forum, you'll find quite a few posts detailing the correct procedure; I believe there's even some from BRP, and I'm pretty sure that none of them refer to running it for ONLY 30 seconds - unless they say to do that if you've stopped for longer than 2 minutes after riding long enough to bring the oil up to temperature??
.....

Since you were so adamant that 30 seconds wasn't enough time I re read the operators manual. It says that but the line before it says if it's at operating temperature. But I always warm in up a lot longer than 30 seconds. And I check it within a couple of minutes after I shut it off. Like I said I have checked it immediately (within a couple minutes) after riding it and got the same reading I got when I checked it after warming it up before I rode it. I probably run it at least 5 minutes at idle and throttle it back a few times before I check it. I had run it several times before I checked it yesterday. And because it was about halfway between full and add when I checked it I started it, let it run a few minutes longer and checked it again. It was right below the full mark. I try to keep it at that level. I'm probably going to work on it again tomorrow. I'll run it even longer before I shut it off and check it and let you know if it shows more or less oil on the dipstick. I could turn it around manually shift it into first gear and ride it a hundred yards or so before I park it and recheck it. I'll keep the RPMs below 4k.

[DickB]

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