Overdue Report About MTV Replacement Front Springs and Brake Discs

[PMK]

Any idea if the H&R springs will fit or can be adapted to the BRP Fox Shox's??? larryd

As I mentioned in previous posts, I did not take the springs off my spare set of Fox Shox and test fit the H&R springs onto the Fox Shox. Maybe at some point time will allow it, but not quite yet.

[PMK]

Any idea if the H&R springs will fit or can be adapted to the BRP Fox Shox's??? larryd

Rethought your request. It may be later this week, but if I grab the spare set of Fox Shox, and hopefully the collars release easily, I can compare my friends oem springs vs the BRP / Fox Shox springs and get a very good idea if they will fit at all, or with minimal changes, or best would be plug and play.

[Mosess01]

MR PMK, I have installed the sway bar from Martin and the rotors along with the springs. I absolutely love this setup. No more collapsing in corners and no more side to side wandering. the brakes are fantastic ... I am now waiting to install car tires on the '21 RTL.

I believe this is the best setup, especially if you love hitting the corners and if you have a passenger on board.

[troop]

Just got around to getting the H&R springs on this week. Only put a few miles on it afterwards, but they are immediately noticeable. No more wallowing in corners, with a much tighter, planted feel. They certainly don't feel stiff over road imperfections. Gonna like these.

[PMK]

Just got around to getting the H&R springs on this week. Only put a few miles on it afterwards, but they are immediately noticeable. No more wallowing in corners, with a much tighter feel. They certainly don't feel stiff over road imperfections. Gonna like these.

Many folks do not understand proper suspension setup. Unfortunately, regardless of the motorcycle brand or type, often, owners (riders) deem that simply increasing a springs preload vs installing a correctly rated spring is equal in performance. Simply, it is not.

Same vehicle, same rider, two differently rated springs. The firmer spring will support the initial weight at a correct ride height (sag). The softer spring with additional preload can also support the initial weight at a correct ride height.

However, the softer spring, will retain more stored energy at ride height, and this results in a vague feel, and often harshness on small sharp bumps.

As the suspension compresses, typically, the firmer spring will offer better mid travel support, and provide better bottoming control.

The softer spring with preload, many times is not capable of supporting the mid stroke or bottoming control as the overall spring force of the softer spring is less in mid stroke and bottoming. The science of math can plot straight rate spring graphs, allowing a visual to see the force comparison overlays.

Also, a preloaded soft spring does not tend to follow the ground, preferring to rather “bounce” off the full extension top out cushion inside the shock itself.

No doubt Troop, the change you felt, is a firmer but planted feel, same as I found when riding my friends 21 RT. Yes it was a spendy upgrade, but a huge improvement for my friend.

BTW, Troop, save your lunch money and buy the brake discs. They are sweet and work very well. No more EBC stuff on our Spyder once worn.

[Snoking1127]

I will offer up my experience and where I am currently with two 2018 RTL's

I bought the Champagne on in fall of 2020. I installed the Bajaron sway bar early on, then the Bajaron preload adjusters, then Federal Formoza up front and a General Altimax RT43 out back. I then was very happy with how it handled in the twisties and on I-10 South of Phoenix with lots of semi traffic. Each thing was an incremental improvement in handling and stability. Then I decided that I wanted PPA aftermarket wheels, and installed Vredestein Quatrac SL's along with Centramatic balancers. This brought on another incremental improvement in handling and stability. I put around 6-8K miles with this setup and was quite happy. I am 6'2" or 3" tall and weigh 220+/-.

Fast forward to the purchase of the second 2018 recently that came with Alka stage one front shocks. I installed a Bajaron sway bar and moved front tires/wheels around between machines. Note: This newer machine had a screwed up Kenda on the left front, that even the Centramatic balancers could not smooth out.

So the newer Asphalt Grey one has the PPA wheels/Vredestein tires and the Centramatic balancer, ElKA shocks, Bajaron sway bar and handling is amazing! At 79 years old I do not know if I will find it's true limits, however I do like to ride the twisties and go vroom vroom. In the wake of a semi I get buffeted around "myself" on a rock solid machine that goes straight down the road. It does ride firmer on highways with expansion joints every 20 or 30 feet, however I will gladly live with that.

I have not yet decide what tire will be going out back, probably in the fall. This trike had 8240 miles on it when I got it, and I have put around 1500 miles on it in a few weeks. It is going to be my Arizona trike, and I will fly back and ride the Champagne one to Washington in early June as my summer trike with the OEM chrome wheels with the Federal Formoza and General as tires.

[PMK]

For folks that asked, yes my spare Fox Shox I got from storage and unwound the Fox preload rings. Need to still use the spring compressor to get the springs off. Was hopeful the preload collar threads on the shock body would release the spring, but it did not. Be patient. With luck, I will get the spring off and find time to determine the spring rate in the tester.

Still looking for a failed oem 2014 to 2019 RT rear shock. Want to test that oem spring for rate, and measure the damper in prep to custom build a rear Fox Shox for our 2014 RTS.

[PMK]

I will offer up my experience and where I am currently with two 2018 RTL's

I bought the Champagne on in fall of 2020. I installed the Bajaron sway bar early on, then the Bajaron preload adjusters, then Federal Formoza up front and a General Altimax RT43 out back. I then was very happy with how it handled in the twisties and on I-10 South of Phoenix with lots of semi traffic. Each thing was an incremental improvement in handling and stability. Then I decided that I wanted PPA aftermarket wheels, and installed Vredestein Quatrac SL's along with Centramatic balancers. This brought on another incremental improvement in handling and stability. I put around 6-8K miles with this setup and was quite happy. I am 6'2" or 3" tall and weigh 220+/-.

Fast forward to the purchase of the second 2018 recently that came with Alka stage one front shocks. I installed a Bajaron sway bar and moved front tires/wheels around between machines. Note: This newer machine had a screw Kenda on the left front, that even the Centramatic balancers could not smooth out.

So the newer Asphalt Grey one has the PPA wheels/Vredestein tires and the Centramatic balancer, ElKA shocks, Bajaron sway bar and handling is amazing! At 79 years old I do not know if I will find it's true limits, however I do like to ride the twisties and go vroom vroom. In the wake of a semi I get buffeted around "myself" on a rock solid machine that goes straight down the road. It does ride firmer on highways for joins every 20 or 30 feet, however I will gladly live with that.

I have not yet decide was tire will be going out back, probably in the fall. This trike had 8240 miles on it when I got it, and I have put around 1500 miles on it in a few weeks. It is going to be my Arizona trike, and I will fly back and ride the Champagne one to Washington in early June as my summer trike with the OEM chrome wheels with the Federal Formoza and General as tires.

There is a large performance suspension company's slogan that states:, “the best you know, is the best you’ve ridden”.

At your 220 pounds, assuming Elka sprung you correctly, it should be an acceptable setup as you described.

Our 2014 RTS was bought January of 2014. It has been ridden totally stock. Has been ridden with oem Kenda tires (balanced correctly by me) with an one piece BajaRon front swaybar and oem shocks.

It has been ridden with BRP accessory Fox Shox, and the BajaRon bar.

Currently, for a longtime, it has rolled on Federal Formoza tires, Fox Shox, and BajaRon swaybar.

Yes, each change was noticeable.

If given the chance to do it again, I would probably do only the Fox Shox and tires. Those two items showed the largest improvement. The BajaRon bar was a huge improvement with stock tires and stock Sachs shocks / springs.

With luck, if I can find time, I hope to make chassis adjustments, resetting the instantaneous chassis roll center AND in doing so, taking a slight bit of harshness out of the front. If I had kept the oem swaybar, that would go back in also. Just has that “feel” that both front suspensions are too well connected by the firmer swaybar.

Cool setup you have though.

[Snoking1127]

There is a large performance suspension company's slogan that states:, “the best you know, is the best you’ve ridden”.

At your 220 pounds, assuming Elka sprung you correctly, it should be an acceptable setup as you described.

Our 2014 RTS was bought January of 2014. It has been ridden totally stock. Has been ridden with oem Kenda tires (balanced correctly by me) with an one piece BajaRon front swaybar and oem shocks.

It has been ridden with BRP accessory Fox Shox, and the BajaRon bar.

Currently, for a longtime, it has rolled on Federal Formoza tires, Fox Shox, and BajaRon swaybar.

Yes, each change was noticeable.

If given the chance to do it again, I would probably do only the Fox Shox and tires. Those two items showed the largest improvement. The BajaRon bar was a huge improvement with stock tires and stock Sachs shocks / springs.

With luck, if I can find time, I hope to make chassis adjustments, resetting the instantaneous chassis roll center AND in doing so, taking a slight bit of harshness out of the front. If I had kept the oem swaybar, that would go back in also. Just has that “feel” that both front suspensions are too well connected by the firmer swaybar.

Cool setup you have though.

I have a collection(3 or 4) of OEM sway bars in the man cave if you want to pay for the shipping from 85118 zip code. And OEM links.

[Snoking1127]

I will offer up my experience and where I am currently with two 2018 RTL's

I bought the Champagne on in fall of 2020. I installed the Bajaron sway bar early on, then the Bajaron preload adjusters, then Federal Formoza up front and a General Altimax RT43 out back. I then was very happy with how it handled in the twisties and on I-10 South of Phoenix with lots of semi traffic. Each thing was an incremental improvement in handling and stability. Then I decided that I wanted PPA aftermarket wheels, and installed Vredestein Quatrac SL's along with Centramatic balancers. This brought on another incremental improvement in handling and stability. I put around 6-8K miles with this setup and was quite happy. I am 6'2" or 3" tall and weigh 220+/-.

Fast forward to the purchase of the second 2018 recently that came with Alka stage one front shocks. I installed a Bajaron sway bar and moved front tires/wheels around between machines. Note: This newer machine had a screwed up Kenda on the left front, that even the Centramatic balancers could not smooth out.

So the newer Asphalt Grey one has the PPA wheels/Vredestein tires and the Centramatic balancer, ElKA shocks, Bajaron sway bar and handling is amazing! At 79 years old I do not know if I will find it's true limits, however I do like to ride the twisties and go vroom vroom. In the wake of a semi I get buffeted around "myself" on a rock solid machine that goes straight down the road. It does ride firmer on highways with expansion joints every 20 or 30 feet, however I will gladly live with that.

I have not yet decide what tire will be going out back, probably in the fall. This trike had 8240 miles on it when I got it, and I have put around 1500 miles on it in a few weeks. It is going to be my Arizona trike, and I will fly back and ride the Champagne one to Washington in early June as my summer trike with the OEM chrome wheels with the Federal Formoza and General as tires.

Another follow-up. I rode the newer Asphalt Grey one today for about 90 miles and am quite happy with it. So I jumped on the older Champagne one and did four 40 MPH stops to seat the new brake pads. This one has the Bajaron bar and preload adjusters plus the Federal Formoza tires. The comparison: Lots of nose diving on hard braking. Took it on a twisties road and noticed a lot more chassis roll in corners and the feeling of the inside tire lifting.

So I think it will be getting some springs. Does anyone have a link to domestic (US) springs that would get the job done?

I have put about 1700 miles on the newer machine in this first month!!!

[larryd]

Another follow-up. I rode the newer Asphalt Grey one today for about 90 miles and am quite happy with it. So I jumped on the older Champagne one and did four 40 MPH stops to seat the new brake pads. This one has the Bajaron bar and preload adjusters plus the Federal Formoza tires. The comparison: Lots of nose diving on hard braking. Took it on a twisties road and noticed a lot more chassis roll in corners and the feeling of the inside tire lifting.

So I think it will be getting some springs. Does anyone have a link to domestic (US) springs that would get the job done?

I have put about 1700 miles on the newer machine in this first month!!!

I want to make sure I'm following correctly - The only difference between your two machines is: the one has Elka shocks, and you see improved handling; and the other has Ron's adjustors on stock shocks and you don't like the handling??? larryd

[Snoking1127]

I want to make sure I'm following correctly - The only difference between your two machines is: the one has Elka shocks, and you see improved handling; and the other has Ron's adjustors on stock shocks and you don't like the handling??? larryd

Correct, the one with the Elka shocks corners very level with very little body roll; vs the other one with sway bar, stock shocks, and Ron's adjusters that I cranked up several notches a couple years ago.

AND today, my buddy Jerry and I rode to the end of the pavement past Tortilla Flats. Coming back, I suggested switching trikes for the 5.5 miles of twisties back down to Tortilla Flats. His is also a 2018 with a Bajaron sway bar and all Kenda tires. I noticed right away more body roll and the lifting feeling of the inside tire on corners.

We are still on our own machines in the picture. Jerry in short and stockier than I am. He noticed that mine corners better than his. We both actually have two 2018's each. His white one, that is up in Colorado, is all stock this winter. He claims not to notice that much difference. However, his daughter likes the blue one much better, and refuses to ride the white one.

His daughter came on the East Valley Spyder riders FB page a couple/three years ago and said her dad was retired in Az in the winter and need someone to ride with once in a while, and I ask where he was, and it turned out he is only a couple miles away. He is a retire LEO and a good guy to ride with, as he has GOOJFC as he is allowed to still carry a badge.

[larryd]

Correct, the one with the Elka shocks corners very level with very little body roll; vs the other one with sway bar, stock shocks, and Ron's adjusters that I cranked up several notches a couple years ago.

AND today, my buddy Jerry and I rode to the end of the pavement past Tortilla Flats. Coming back, I suggested switching trikes for the 5.5 miles of twisties back down to Tortilla Flats. His is also a 2018 with a Bajaron sway bar and all Kenda tires. I noticed right away more body roll and the lifting feeling of the inside tire on corners.

We are still on our own machines in the picture. Jerry in short and stockier than I am. He noticed that mine corners better than his. We both actually have two 2018's each. His white one, that is up in Colorado, is all stock this winter. He claims not to notice that much difference. However, his daughter likes the blue one much better, and refuses to ride the white one.

His daughter came on the East Valley Spyder riders FB page a couple/three years ago and said her dad was retired in Az in the winter and need someone to ride with once in a while, and I ask where he was, and it turned out he is only a couple miles away. He is a retire LEO and a good guy to ride with, as he has GOOJFC as he is allowed to still carry a badge.

Sound to me like you might be a good candidate for Martins H & R shock spring upgrade to your stock shocks - Less expensive than a set of Elka's and an easy-to-do fix??? PMK gave them a good review after installing them on his friend's machine. larryd

PS, I should think about spending the winters in a warmer place These PA winters are totally boring. It hasn't snowed nearly enough to ride the snowmobile for several years, AND TIME IS CATCHING UP WITH ME - I'm now 81. larryd

[larryd]

Any idea if the H&R springs will fit or can be adapted to the BRP Fox Shox's??? larryd

I finally got around to this task. I removed my Fox shocks from my 2014 RTS and installed the H&R springs on my Fox shocks. The top mounting plate is a perfect fit. The bottom of the springs mounts directly on the top spanner adjusting nut. This adjusting nut has a collar that keeps the spring centered on the shock, but it will NOT fit into the bottom of the H&R spring (like the problem with the BaJaRon adjustors). I could have spun the collar off in the lathe, but that would have reduced the amount of thread contact on the shock to half. I chose to install the collar upside down, then adjusted the preload length to the same setting as if installed on the Sachs stock RTS shocks. Did a short ride road test with 2-up onboard and it definitely improved the roll in cornering. More to come after a day trip of riding. larryd