I bought a brand new 2023 RTL last month, and just returned home from riding it for the first time in Florida for a total of three days and almost 1200 miles. Not a single issue with the bike, except I would get a faint smell of burning engine oil from time to time. I checked the oil every day, and it was completely full (over full actually). In addition, there were no visible leaks, or oil spots under the bike in the morning. I finally wrote it off as the new, hot oily smell that new vehicles have.
I warmed up the bike this evening for its first oil change, and the hot oily smell came back. It even made some light smoke. I placed the bike on car ramps, removed a plastic cover under the engine, and noticed the engine/ trans was oily. That oil in turn had been dripping on the exhaust pipe, which identified the hot oily smell.
Before I get upset and call my dealer, I have some questions for you guys:
Is it possible for the engine to puke excess oil in a over-fill scenario? This bike has too much oil in it. The picture doesn't do justice, but the oil level is up past the plastic indicator and on the cable even. Is there a breather up high that could be puking oil?
I checked the drain plugs, and they're tight, so I know oil isn't seeping from them.
Is there anywhere else I should look and inspect?
Has anyone else with a '20+ RTL had this happen? It's not a horrible leak, but it needs attention. I'm just trying to identify something obvious before I make the call. I'm reluctant to go ahead and change the oil and/ or put a wrench to it out of fear that it may compromise the warranty.
there has been a couple of engines with porosity issues that has been reported here. Oil on the cable is severe overfill. It CAN come out the the fill tube. Maybe the dealer did NOT know and understand how to fill the Spyder. As a new owner, do you know how to check proper oil level?
Run Spyder on a 10 mile trip, stop on a level surface, let idle for a couple minutes, turn off, within 2 minutes check level. Should be within those 2 bulbs where its pointing to. The oil pan is not a normal oil pan to collect ALL the oil. It has scavenge pumps that moves oil around. Spyder has a dry sump engine
I bought a brand new 2023 RTL last month, and just returned home from riding it for the first time in Florida for a total of three days and almost 1200 miles. Not a single issue with the bike, except I would get a faint smell of burning engine oil from time to time. I checked the oil every day, and it was completely full (over full actually). In addition, there were no visible leaks, or oil spots under the bike in the morning. I finally wrote it off as the new, hot oily smell that new vehicles have.
I warmed up the bike this evening for its first oil change, and the hot oily smell came back. It even made some light smoke. I placed the bike on car ramps, removed a plastic cover under the engine, and noticed the engine/ trans was oily. That oil in turn had been dripping on the exhaust pipe, which identified the hot oily smell.
Before I get upset and call my dealer, I have some questions for you guys:
Is it possible for the engine to puke excess oil in a over-fill scenario? This bike has too much oil in it. The picture doesn't do justice, but the oil level is up past the plastic indicator and on the cable even. Is there a breather up high that could be puking oil?
I checked the drain plugs, and they're tight, so I know oil isn't seeping from them.
Is there anywhere else I should look and inspect?
Has anyone else with a '20+ RTL had this happen? It's not a horrible leak, but it needs attention. I'm just trying to identify something obvious before I make the call. I'm reluctant to go ahead and change the oil and/ or put a wrench to it out of fear that it may compromise the warranty.
Thank you in advance!
You said that you checked the oil each morning on your trip? Now after being home it shows over full? Did you check the oil as specified by the Operators Manual?
Bill
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Yes, I do know the correct way to check oil, as you described.
Thanks
well, you have have one of those engines with porosity issues then. Take it to a dealer. At least one report of a new engine being swapped out on warranty. Hate to see you have a bad casting. BUT also, the dealer OVERFILLED it, unless you added more, but you said you understand HOW to check oil level
I mentioned in the first post above that the oil was over-full when checked every day. I always check when hot and after it has idled for a few minutes before shutting off.
Last edited by Northernsledder; 02-02-2024 at 07:55 PM.
Yeah, excess oil overflows into the air intake & then from there it's either sucked into the air intake side of the engine or it leaks out of the bottom of the air box/overflows the air filter & runs down onto those plastic covers you showed!!
Even if nothing else, that oil over-fill is an issue!! Maybe not a major issue just yet;but seriously, if you don't want to risk doing nasty and expensive things to your engine, then drain some oil out NOW!! Heck, if you can't think of any other way, you could always go to one of those Jiffy oil change places and get them to suck a quart or two out of the dipstick hole, or at least enough to get the checked level down to somewhere just above the Add mark and anywhere up to the Full mark on the dipstick - but I wouldn't ever recommend you use them to do a full oil change!!
Mind you, changing the oil yourself &/or refilling it with the correct quantity of specified oil will not compromise your warranty in any way; they'd need to PROVE that your actions caused any damage that ensues; and while this is definitely not legal advice, I reckon it'd be a foolish company that'd try to take you to court to try to prove that YOUcorrectingTHEIR oil overfill created any issues that ensue!! But if you're worried, document the overfill; take pics of everything, maybe even a vid of you checking the oil as per the approved directions and revealing the overfill; then take it back to your dealer and demand that they remedy the overfill and any accept responsibility for any subsequent damage that may have been caused by that which arises in the future. Then it's clearly their issue - and if the motor self-destructs down track because the pistons have spent a month or so hammering away on excessive amounts of oil leaking in thru the air inlet, it's clearly their fault!
Good Luck!
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 02-02-2024 at 08:39 PM.
Yeah, excess oil overflows into the air intake & then from there it's either sucked into the air intake side of the engine or it leaks out of the bottom of the air box/overflows the air filter & runs down onto those plastic covers you showed!!
Even if nothing else, that oil over-fill is an issue!! Maybe not a major issue just yet;but seriously, if you don't want to risk doing nasty and expensive things to your engine, then drain some oil out NOW!! Heck, if you can't think of any other way, you could always go to one of those Jiffy oil change places and get them to suck a quart or two out of the dipstick hole, or at least enough to get the checked level down to somewhere just above the Add mark and anywhere up to the Full mark on the dipstick - but I wouldn't ever recommend you use them to do a full oil change!!
Mind you, changing the oil yourself &/or refilling it with the correct quantity of specified oil will not compromise your warranty in any way; they'd need to PROVE that your actions caused any damage that ensues; and while this is definitely not legal advice, I reckon it'd be a foolish company that'd try to take you to court to try to prove that YOUcorrectingTHEIR oil overfill created any issues that ensue!! But if you're worried, document the overfill; take pics of everything, maybe even a vid of you checking the oil as per the approved directions and revealing the overfill; then take it back to your dealer and demand that they remedy the overfill and any accept responsibility for any subsequent damage that may have been caused by that which arises in the future. Then it's clearly their issue - and if the motor self-destructs down track because the pistons have spent a month or so hammering away on excessive amounts of oil leaking in thru the air inlet, it's clearly their fault!
Good Luck!
Copy that! Thank you for your time and detailed information
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 02-02-2024 at 08:38 PM.
Reason: Fixed quote display ;-)
there is NO oil tank, all oil in inside crankcase. However the V Twin 998 early models had an oil tank
There is most definitely an oil tank. Item #37. That's why you have to let these bikes idle for a few minutes after riding so the appropriate amount gets pumped back into the tank for a proper dip stick reading.
Last edited by Northernsledder; 02-02-2024 at 08:40 PM.
Over filling the 1330 engine WILL cause oil to blow out of the fill tube. Been there and done that after a dealership changed my oil. 200 miles into a vacation and I had to seek out a dealership because my bike was an oily mess. They removed almost three quarters of a quart and I had no problem the rest of the 3000 mile trip. No more dealership oil changes for me.
There is most definitely an oil tank. Item #37. That's why you have to let these bikes idle for a few minutes after riding so the appropriate amount gets pumped back into the tank for a proper dip stick reading.
1330cc, its bolted on engine for internal use. the V Twin was external with a hose.
In my mind the next thing you need to do is tell the dealer his set up crew is slightly less than competent, and he needs to correct the problem and clean up your Spyder.
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Regarding dry sump engine oil systems, in comparison to wet sump style systems, the dry sump design has secondary oil pumps that transfer oil into a holding tank of sorts. The wet sump style hold oil in the lower portion of the engine cases.
In some cases with wet sumps, the moving engine parts can foam the engine oil, causing oil pressure issues, and possible damage to clearances that require a steady, adequate oil pressure.
The dry sump design, is not likely to foam the oil, and have resultant oil pressure concerns, since the oil tank reservoir permits the oil flow into the oil pump, to be a steady supply of engine oil that is not a foamy mess.
The typical result of an overfilled 1330 engine oil system, will be discharge of oil from around the oil filler tube / dipstick cap. The overfilled oil will tend to pump out, past the dipstick cap O ring, and drool to lower parts of the engine / Spyder. In some situations, oil could be pumped into the airbox via the breather hose. If oil did find its way into the airbox, typically that does not show up as a leak, since the airbox is well sealed to keep dirt from entering the airbox, bypassing the air filter.
As super critical as BRP has expressed needing to check oil hot, that is FAR LESS IMPORTANT than simply starting the engine and letting the scavenge pump return dry sump oil, into the oil reservoir portion of the engine cases. Also, if the Spyder had been ridden and shut down within the previous minute or so prior to checking the oil level, that suffices too.
The OP stated the oil level is above the plastic witness gage portion of the dipstick. If accurate, then yes, oil must be drained / level reduced to more correct amounts. There are many various ways to remove excess oil in a situation like this. First might be a complete oil and filter change, adding the correct amount of oil.
A second method, would be to utilize a simple pump style spray bottle, secure a hose to the plastic straw of the spray bottle pump, and just as if cleaning a glass window, pump the excess oil out into a disposable container. Using this method, the oil can not be hot for fear of melting the plastic sprayer pump.
The true task though of overfilled or spilled oil from filling, or more commonly an oil mess from draining during an oil change on a Spyder is the underbody plastic fairings hold pools of unwanted oil. Myself, I remove those underbody fairings completely at most oil changes and wash them with spray soap and rinse with water. With the underbody fairings removed, in this case of the oil mess, the cool engine can be bathed in spray soap, then rinsed with care.
As for others remarks about porous engine cases leaking oil, it is a known, but not common concern. Improper oil amounts is a far more frequent cause for oil leaks.
I would say you got two choices, roll your sleeves up and take some plastic off and do your oil change and clean up the mess, or go spank your dealer and make him do it. And check the air filter while you're at it, like mentioned above. The fun part of owning something new, getting up close and personal with it.
Regarding dry sump engine oil systems, in comparison to wet sump style systems, the dry sump design has secondary oil pumps that transfer oil into a holding tank of sorts. The wet sump style hold oil in the lower portion of the engine cases.
In some cases with wet sumps, the moving engine parts can foam the engine oil, causing oil pressure issues, and possible damage to clearances that require a steady, adequate oil pressure.
The dry sump design, is not likely to foam the oil, and have resultant oil pressure concerns, since the oil tank reservoir permits the oil flow into the oil pump, to be a steady supply of engine oil that is not a foamy mess.
The typical result of an overfilled 1330 engine oil system, will be discharge of oil from around the oil filler tube / dipstick cap. The overfilled oil will tend to pump out, past the dipstick cap O ring, and drool to lower parts of the engine / Spyder. In some situations, oil could be pumped into the airbox via the breather hose. If oil did find its way into the airbox, typically that does not show up as a leak, since the airbox is well sealed to keep dirt from entering the airbox, bypassing the air filter.
As super critical as BRP has expressed needing to check oil hot, that is FAR LESS IMPORTANT than simply starting the engine and letting the scavenge pump return dry sump oil, into the oil reservoir portion of the engine cases. Also, if the Spyder had been ridden and shut down within the previous minute or so prior to checking the oil level, that suffices too.
The OP stated the oil level is above the plastic witness gage portion of the dipstick. If accurate, then yes, oil must be drained / level reduced to more correct amounts. There are many various ways to remove excess oil in a situation like this. First might be a complete oil and filter change, adding the correct amount of oil.
A second method, would be to utilize a simple pump style spray bottle, secure a hose to the plastic straw of the spray bottle pump, and just as if cleaning a glass window, pump the excess oil out into a disposable container. Using this method, the oil can not be hot for fear of melting the plastic sprayer pump.
The true task though of overfilled or spilled oil from filling, or more commonly an oil mess from draining during an oil change on a Spyder is the underbody plastic fairings hold pools of unwanted oil. Myself, I remove those underbody fairings completely at most oil changes and wash them with spray soap and rinse with water. With the underbody fairings removed, in this case of the oil mess, the cool engine can be bathed in spray soap, then rinsed with care.
As for others remarks about porous engine cases leaking oil, it is a known, but not common concern. Improper oil amounts is a far more frequent cause for oil leaks.
The oil is not leaking from the oil fill/ dip stick cap. I'm tempted to pull the right side plastics so I can get a deeper look inside the engine bay.
I may first drain the excess oil to see if the problem persists before I actually call the dealer.
It's a new machine and under warrantee, correct? They overfilled it, if it was mine, they would fix it! But it's yours, and do the work for them if you want, but they will not pay you for your effort. Good Luck!
The oil is not leaking from the oil fill/ dip stick cap. I'm tempted to pull the right side plastics so I can get a deeper look inside the engine bay.
I may first drain the excess oil to see if the problem persists before I actually call the dealer.
Thank you!
Without doubt, reset the oil to the correct level, clean the mess and see if the concern reappears.
Based on helping others with similar issues of overfilled oil and resulting oil leaks, the typical leak location is the oil filler, which you state is not the source of the leak. Downside of the oil filler not being the source of the leak is that owners with oil leaks, not from the filler, most times require a new engine, or in some cases the warranty fix is applying an epoxy “patch” to the porous engine case area.
In simplest terms, unless assembled incorrectly with a leaking gasket surface, the 1330 engine and gearbox have no other leak prone areas, since the engine and gearbox have the one breather, the rest is sealed.
Possibly the plastic engine part, such as the filter housing is cracked?
Best to adjust the level, clean it up, and reinspect, or take it in for warranty.
All the best with it, however you decide to move forward.
I myself would not be fooling around trying to find this issue on a new 2023. Over filling can cause serious damage on the 1330. I would take it to the dealer and have them document this problem for future warranty issues.
CALL the dealer! WTH. It's a brand new machine. Have it ready to roll by spring.
Correct! I was just trying to catch something obvious on my end before I actually made the call.
So far, I have determined the oil is not coming from the oil filter cap, or the dip stick/ filler neck. It appears to only leak when the bike is running. There is never a puddle under the bike in the morning.
I called my dealer over the weekend (85 miles away), explained the situation and traded pictures with the shop via text. They gave me the ok to go ahead and correct the engine oil level, and determine if that's the cause of the leak.I removed a total of 13oz of excess oil with a large syringe and small diameter hose. Took the bike for a ride, and it still leaks. A buddy that followed even said it puffs smoke every so often. I assume that's when the oil drips on the exhaust. At that point, I called the dealer back, and delivered the bike this morning. It's in their hands now.
Questions about oil leaking on brand new 2023 RTL
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Originally Posted by Northernsledder
Bill
If in Doubt, Don't Do It! 
Maybe not a major issue just yet; but seriously, if you don't want to risk doing nasty and expensive things to your engine, then drain some oil out NOW!! 
But if you're worried, document the overfill; take pics of everything, maybe even a vid of you checking the oil as per the approved directions and revealing the overfill; then take it back to your dealer and demand that they remedy the overfill and any accept responsibility for any subsequent damage that may have been caused by that which arises in the future. Then it's clearly their issue - and if the motor self-destructs down track because the pistons have spent a month or so hammering away on excessive amounts of oil leaking in thru the air inlet, it's clearly their fault! 
