2015 Can Am Spyder F3 - Needs a new engine!

[Navydad]

Another thought. Look for rodent damage. I bet this machine has been parked for long periods and rodents love wiring insulation.

[CloverHillCrawler]

C1290 and C006C -- search is your friend (they aren't in my Service Manual)

Steering angle and position sensor error codes.

[CloverHillCrawler]

Another though. Look for rodent damage. I bet this machine has been parked for long periods and rodents love wiring insulation.

Yea with all of the codes thrown something isn't right with the wiring.

[happyspyder2039]

You might try starting with a jumper pack. I’m thinking still a battery issue. A lot of electrical gremlins come out with not enough juice.

[Isopedella]

Reckon I would pull off all the panels and have a real good look at all the wiring.

I had a rat into my 2009 GL1800. Munched down on the Palm Oil based plastics. The soft stuff. Mostly the wiring. Must smell good, taste good and be nutritional. The bike was 11 months old and needed stripping back to the frame to replace the looms.

[Scottncol]

Another thought. Look for rodent damage. I bet this machine has been parked for long periods and rodents love wiring insulation.

It was kept in a heated garage. There could still be damage but as I was looking it over today and yesterday (10+ hours), I saw no signs of any damage.

[Scottncol]

Scott where are you at in PA? If you are close enough by I can come by and help you take a look at it.

Very kind of you. I am in Pittsburgh, so it looks like we are on opposite ends.

[Scottncol]

One tool I don't have is a 19mm hex bit socket to try and manually turn the engine.

I will get one at lunch tomorrow and see if it budges.

[BertRemington]

Scott -- every evening my cat and I go out on the porch for "beer cat" time. While he checks his turf I use the opportunity to relax my focus on design projects and revisit various topics of the day, one being your interesting F3. One item is especially puzzling is the replacement of the spark plugs at 13K miles when the maintenance schedule is 28K. And many riders are going to 50K without problems although at risk of their ignition coils. And combined with its running rough the question is why such an early replacement was needed? I'm kinda wondering if the Spyder ran smoothly (the 1330cc engine is wonderful) for 12.9K miles and then suddenly started roughly if not actually stopping whereupon the previous owner thought (was mislead into) spark plug replacement was needed. And when that expensive action didn't fix the problem the previous owner parked it for several years then as a New Year's resolution decided to sell it on.

I truly hope tomorrow your engine turns freely. And if it does think about peeling back the scenario I described above.

Again best wishes getting your F3 on the road again.

[sandeejs]

Per Scot "I am truly heartbroken. Yes, over a bike...! haha"

Completely understandable. I wish I had the exact info you need, but I don't.

When I had a Honda, I did a lot of my own work. The Spyder is a real pain to work on.

There are an incredible number of odd things that can go wrong. I hope you can get it sorted soon.

Good luck!!!

[Scottncol]

Scott -- every evening my cat and I go out on the porch for "beer cat" time. While he checks his turf I use the opportunity to relax my focus on design projects and revisit various topics of the day, one being your interesting F3. One item is especially puzzling is the replacement of the spark plugs at 13K miles when the maintenance schedule is 28K. And many riders are going to 50K without problems although at risk of their ignition coils. And combined with its running rough the question is why such an early replacement was needed? I'm kinda wondering if the Spyder ran smoothly (the 1330cc engine is wonderful) for 12.9K miles and then suddenly started roughly if not actually stopping whereupon the previous owner thought (was mislead into) spark plug replacement was needed. And when that expensive action didn't fix the problem the previous owner parked it for several years then as a New Year's resolution decided to sell it on.

I truly hope tomorrow your engine turns freely. And if it does think about peeling back the scenario I described above.

Again best wishes getting your F3 on the road again.

I agree with you! What made them change the plugs? I am thinking that there was a bad cylinder and they thought changing plugs would fix that. May have made it worse.

I am going to pick up a torx socket and try to manually turn this engine. If it turns, I’ll keep searching. If not, I’ll find a used engine and someone who knows how to swap them.

Still worth the journey, for what I paid. And I absolutely appreciate your help.

[Scottncol]

IF a replacement engine is needed, are all of the 1330 engines the same? Can am made several models with this engine. I was hoping they are interchangeable.

[Scottncol]

I am going to tear the plastic off tomorrow (again) and get to the spark plugs and see if I can get some penetrating oil in there and hopefully unsieze the motor.

[Peter Aawen]

IF a replacement engine is needed, are all of the 1330 engines the same? Can am made several models with this engine. I was hoping they are interchangeable.

Yes, for all intents and purposes they are! The major differences you'll find are in the hard coded programming of various Control Modules; Engine (ECM) & Transmission (TCM) in particular, altho there may also be some significant changes in the Dash Units &/or the Left-Hand Control Module (which handles & transmits most of the handlebar control inputs from BOTH handgrips!)....

[Scottncol]

NEW APPROACH!

I am hoping I can get this motor free'd up. Today, I plan on removing the plugs and adding some Marvel's Mystery Oil into the spark plug inlets. HOPEFULLY, that will free up the engine.

It froze for a reason. No oil circulation, no coolant circulation, etc.

First things first. Let's try and get this motor free'd up.

Stay tuned!

[BertRemington]

On a warm sunny Spring day, a young bull and an old bull were standing on the top of a hill surveying their territory. In the valley below was their herd. The young bull said to the old bull, "Let's run down the hill and frolic with a lady." The old bull said to the young bull, "Let's not young master. Let's walk down the hill and frolic with all the ladies."

From the Service Manual:

ENGINE SUDDENLY TURNS OFF (POOR IDLING)
1. Piston rings worn out.
- Replace piston rings.
2. Piston/cylinder clearance out of specification.
- Check piston/cylinder clearance. Replace if out of specification.
3. Melted or broken piston.
- Check if oil spray nozzle is not clogged. Refer to LUBRICATION SYSTEM subsection. Replace piston and cylinder block if necessary.

Read what PMK says about the Nikasil coating on the cylinder walls https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...il#post1581957

If the crankshaft turns I recommend that you still don't run the engine until without a better diagnosis of the rough running and stopping symptoms.

[BertRemington]

If you decide the engine must be replaced, before you run down that hill share the planned purchase with us first. For instance, exclusivepartstore has a lovely engine at an attractive price. Except when you look closer you see the tops of the lower two rear mounting lugs are broken off. And if you look even closer you see the front adjuster is broken in half not disassembled. That motor received a tremendous blow and you don't want to touch it, even for loose parts.

No need to buy and install a used engine twice.

[Scottncol]

If you decide the engine must be replaced, before you run down that hill share the planned purchase with us first. For instance, exclusivepartstore has a lovely engine at an attractive price. Except when you look closer you see the tops of the lower two rear mounting lugs are broken off. And if you look even closer you see the front adjuster is broken in half not disassembled. That motor received a tremendous blow and you don't want to touch it, even for loose parts.

No need to buy and install a used engine twice.

Thank you. I can’t find any used or rebuilt engines…. Not sure where to look.

[CloverHillCrawler]

Were you able to verify that the motor is locked up?

I didn't see any post yet from you about that. You may be putting the cart before the horse here.

I would really take a close look around that harness and the connectors for damaged or loose leads it just may be coincidence but there are other items that are being thrown in the codes that have nothing to do with the engine.

I would start looking around the wiring that would have been disturbed during that spark plug change. Something either got yanked on, cut, or exposed that is shorting out especially with the circuit that is mentioned in that P011C code. If you notice it is complaining about a too HIGH of voltage on that circuit which is the ECM or the brains controlling the whole shibang here.

P011C
-ECM
-Ambient Air Temperature Sensor circuit high Sensor disconnected Defective sensor, damaged wires, wire shorted to battery +, ECM voltage supply too High.
-Make sure sensor connector is fully inserted. Measure voltage between harness connector pins 1 and 4 . (Expected value: 4.8 to 5.1 volts) Measure resistance from connector: ECMA-H4 to AAPTS-1 (Expected value: < 2 ohms) Measure resistance from connector: ECMA-J4 to AAPTS-2 (Expected value: < 2 ohms)

I am fairly new to these so don't take my word for it I am just using my logic from 30+ years of troubleshooting various pieces of equipment and you may have in fact a seized engine on top of everything else but I would take that P011C code as a red flag since it is an ECM related code before you write off that engine.

[Latrappe]

Hello Scott, not that I am a Spyder Guru or anything like that, but my wife had a similar experience with a V8 Deisel Landcruiser here in Ozzie with a brand-new battery! even if you tried to jump start it start, you could turn the ignition on, lights on and everything worked fine but it would not start or even turn over, so when I got there you automatically think the worst but all it turned out to be that one of the terminals was not tightened enough to make a good connection.

As you also mentioned earlier the previous owner used to cruise on the Spyder but was it ridden or just putter around about as this in itself can lead to other problems, as well as there is a lot of things you can see on YouTube where things have been left in the garage and never run for months and when they get it started it runs terribly, also have a look at some of the Spyder Ryders on You Tube they have 80,000 odd miles with no major problems, so I really doubt it is the motor.

Again, this is my opinion mate as my gut is telling me it's not the motor, but then as the used to say in the Army your gut can be wrong.

I hope you get it sorted and running.

[Scottncol]

Were you able to verify that the motor is locked up?

I didn't see any post yet from you about that. You may be putting the cart before the horse here.

I would really take a close look around that harness and the connectors for damaged or loose leads it just may be coincidence but there are other items that are being thrown in the codes that have nothing to do with the engine.

I would start looking around the wiring that would have been disturbed during that spark plug change. Something either got yanked on, cut, or exposed that is shorting out especially with the circuit that is mentioned in that P011C code. If you notice it is complaining about a too HIGH of voltage on that circuit which is the ECM or the brains controlling the whole shibang here.

P011C
-ECM
-Ambient Air Temperature Sensor circuit high Sensor disconnected Defective sensor, damaged wires, wire shorted to battery +, ECM voltage supply too High.
-Make sure sensor connector is fully inserted. Measure voltage between harness connector pins 1 and 4 . (Expected value: 4.8 to 5.1 volts) Measure resistance from connector: ECMA-H4 to AAPTS-1 (Expected value: < 2 ohms) Measure resistance from connector: ECMA-J4 to AAPTS-2 (Expected value: < 2 ohms)

I am fairly new to these so don't take my word for it I am just using my logic from 30+ years of troubleshooting various pieces of equipment and you may have in fact a seized engine on top of everything else but I would take that P011C code as a red flag since it is an ECM related code before you write off that engine.

Yes, great idea. I will spending the day doing just that.

[Navydad]

Were you able to verify that the motor is locked up?

I didn't see any post yet from you about that. You may be putting the cart before the horse here.

I would really take a close look around that harness and the connectors for damaged or loose leads it just may be coincidence but there are other items that are being thrown in the codes that have nothing to do with the engine.

I would start looking around the wiring that would have been disturbed during that spark plug change. Something either got yanked on, cut, or exposed that is shorting out especially with the circuit that is mentioned in that P011C code. If you notice it is complaining about a too HIGH of voltage on that circuit which is the ECM or the brains controlling the whole shibang here.

P011C
-ECM
-Ambient Air Temperature Sensor circuit high Sensor disconnected Defective sensor, damaged wires, wire shorted to battery +, ECM voltage supply too High.
-Make sure sensor connector is fully inserted. Measure voltage between harness connector pins 1 and 4 . (Expected value: 4.8 to 5.1 volts) Measure resistance from connector: ECMA-H4 to AAPTS-1 (Expected value: < 2 ohms) Measure resistance from connector: ECMA-J4 to AAPTS-2 (Expected value: < 2 ohms)

I am fairly new to these so don't take my word for it I am just using my logic from 30+ years of troubleshooting various pieces of equipment and you may have in fact a seized engine on top of everything else but I would take that P011C code as a red flag since it is an ECM related code before you write off that engine.

I agree with this write up. Just because a connector LOOKS to be connected check it anyway. Some of these connectors have a seal in them and are a tight fit. May be one isn't as tight as it should be?

[Scottncol]

I agree with this write up. Just because a connector LOOKS to be connected check it anyway. Some of these connectors have a seal in them and are a tight fit. May be one isn't as tight as it should be?

Great point. I will recheck every one, just in case.

[Scottncol]

I now have a borescope to do some digging.

I will grab some pictures and share.

[Scottncol]

Update:

The boresope was a hair too large to get into the spark plug hole.

I was able to turn the crank to a certain point. At that point, it froze. I could turn it back the other way and when it reached that point, it froze again.

Cylinders all move freely, up and down. (long screw driver and turned the crank)

SOMETHING is stopping it from turning the hole way. Besides that, everything is VERY clean.

In the video, I state that the one in the top right corner does not move... it does move. They all move.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/xqx6c...7zw35cvtl&dl=0