From what website did you buy the Vredestein tires?
Also, keep in mind the 175 width tires are 10mm (about 3/8") wider than stock Kenda. They will probably rub the inside of your fenders. Just sandwich two 5/16" washers in between the steering knuckle and and each of the four fender mounting braces. It's easier to do while you have the tire off for change out. Make sure to roll over the new, wider tires by hand to verify they don't rub.
Last edited by Northernsledder; 01-14-2024 at 07:09 PM.
Thought you were putting on Vredestein tires! or maybe you clean up them Kenda tires so the recycling man will take em.
~~~the Vredestein Quatracs will be the new rubber on my Spyder rims. The tire you see in post #27 is the OEM tire after some cleansing. I don’t care to work with dirty parts, tires, what have you, and probably why I could never make it as a mechanic. I’d spend too much valuable time cleaning things
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a happy childhood
From what website did you buy the Vredestein tires?
~~~Tire Rack
Originally Posted by Nrthernsledder
Also, keep in mind the 175 width tires are 10mm (about 3/8") wider than stock Kenda. They will probably rub the inside of your fenders. Just sandwich two 5/16" washers in between the steering knuckle and and each of the four fender mounting braces. It's easier to do while you have the tire off for change out. Make sure to roll over the new, wider tires by hand to verify they don't rub.
~~~I don’t believe there will be any clearance issues with the tires I purchased. There’s been plenty of peeps here that used the exact same tires & I don’t recall any of them having to shim fender stays. Thank you for your input just the same
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while
~~~too cold to work in the garage tonight so I brought the work indoors in front of the wood stove. Well I’ll be a son of a buck. Despite lubing the tire beads/rim with a quality tire lube I can’t get any of the tire bead up over & off the rim. I’ve been doing my own motorcycle tire work since 1975, including the wire spoke wheels/tires on a 1964 MGB we owned for a long tome. Those MGB tires though were tubeless yet for the life of me, I can’t get these Kenda tires off using hand tools (tire irons) so, I guess I’ll have to take the wheels to a shop with a tire machine. Fortunately for me, one of those places is less than a mile from home so all is not lost
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian - Henry Ford
Last edited by shakin_jake; 01-15-2024 at 04:02 AM.
.... Well I’ll be a son of a buck. Despite lubing the tire beads/rim with a quality tire lube I can’t get any of the tire bead up over & off the rim. I’ve been doing my own motorcycle tire work since 1975, including the wire spoke wheels/tires on a 1964 MGB we owned for a long tome. Those MGB tires though were tubeless yet for the life of me, I can’t get these Kenda tires off using hand tools (tire irons) so, I guess I’ll have to take the wheels to a shop with a tire machine.....
It doesn't really look it, but it's hard to see the detail in the pic displayed on my phone.... But is it so difficult cos the bead won't break; or that you can't get enough leverage on the tire irons to get the broken bead up, over, and off the rim??
If it's the former, it's probably just their dodgy cheap arsed 'factory assembly' with little or no lube (no help to offer you with this, except maybe adding a length of pipe over your bead-breaker's lever/handle to extend your leverage );
the latter, it's probably because the rims have very little 'well' for the other side bead to drop into in order to give enough 'free diameter' in the bead you're trying to lever over the rim edge so that you can get the tire off the rim!
This latter thing is a common attribute of 'J' type rims, which have 'deeper' bead sections on the rim in order to maximise the friction on the tire bead, stiffening up the sidewall and limiting the tendency of the tire to deform during hard cornering.... (and usually degrading tire performance somewhat along the way! ) which is clearly something BRP needed to do for the very lightly constructed OEM Kendas in order to keep them safely mounted on the rims during hard cornering!! This 'deeper bead edge' on the rim forces you (or whoever is dismounting the tire) to be very careful about where that 'other' tire bead is sitting when you try to lift a bead up and over the rim edge - if the 'other' bead isn't absobloodylutely in the deepest part of the rim well, it's bloody hard if not impossible to get the levered bead up over the rim edge and therefore the tire off the rim without either reeeeaaalllly long tire levers (or 'greedy bar' type lengths of pipe/tube slip-overs to extend the leverage on the tire lever - just be careful not to bend the levers too much if you choose this option! ) or hydraulic assistance!! And for some reason, I've found this is especially the case with the OEM Kendas, not quite so much or so often encountered with a/mkt auto tires and their stiffer/better constructed sidewalls.
However, I have found that when all other (manual) efforts fail, once both the beads are broken, it's pretty easy to get an OEM Kenda off the rim without tire levers &/or hydraulic assistance - simply put, a demo saw/reciprocating saw with a general-purpose metal/wood/plastic blade inserted usually takes just seconds and requires very little effort on your behalf to remove any OEM Kendas!
Simply cut the tire off the rim; one bead first, cutting away from the rim & being careful not to hit the rim with the moving tip of the saw; then running the blade out thru the near sidewall, the tread, the far sidewall, then finally the other bead, again cutting away from the rim and being careful not to hit the rim with the saw blade. It's just easier that way, and really, you're not gonna be keeping that worn Kenda to use again, are you?? So why expend any grunt/effort on swinging the tire levers when a reciprocating saw makes such easy and short work of it?! AND, it also serves the purpose of opening up the tire so you can clearly see how lightly made the Kendas are, and if you choose the right spot in the tire, you'll often also get to see any defects in the construction of that particular tire. Plus, it gives you the satisfaction of cutting another bloody crappy Kenda up while you do it.... But maybe that last bit's just me?!
Just Sayin'
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-14-2024 at 10:52 PM.
Peter!, I enjoy your enthusiasm, but first, to answer your question, I broke the beads on both sides of the rim/tire. The problem is there is no well in the center of the rim for the opposing side of the tire to drop into, allowing slack if you will in the bead, so you can get the bead up, off & over the rim
I’ve read your post several times so it must be my thick Dutch skull that isn’t quite understanding how I could cut the tire bead w/o contacting the wheel using a reciprocating saw
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a happy childhood
... I broke the beads on both sides of the rim/tire. The problem is there is no well in the center of the rim for the opposing side of the tire to drop into, allowing slack if you will in the bead, so you can get the bead up, off & over the rim
I’ve read your post several times so it must be my thick Dutch skull that isn’t quite understanding how I could cut the tire bead w/o contacting the wheel using a reciprocating saw ....
Yeah, that 'lack of a well' in the centre of their 'J' type rims is something else BRP may have done to make it harder for 'non-dealers' to change tires I haven't seen too many 'non-BRP' J type rims that DON'T have a well in the rim in order to make it easier to remove/fit tires, and almost all of those without a well that I HAVE seen with this design flaw (or deliberate action for whatever means) have been on Can Am machines!
As for cutting the tire off, I've found that once I've broken the beads (both sides) I can drop the wheel onto the ground on its inner edge, then by using one foot to press the upper bead down into what little well there is and inserting the blade tip from above (at maybe about 80° to the tire tread, so the tip is juuust pointing into what little well there is... ) and using just the tip end of the blade (with the cutting edge facing away from the rim) it lets me cut thru the bead without hitting the rim at all. Sure, it is something that you need to be very careful with while you're first doing it, and if you're not pressing down hard on your foot on the tire, it can jerk the tire all over the place, but if you've got a good grip on the saw, maybe even got it braced against your other leg, it does work once you grasp the concept & work out how hard to hold it. And if you don't do it/hold it properly/hard/tight enough to start with, then because of the angle you're holding the saw at, while I'm pretty sure I've never hit a rim yet, I'd suggest that any 'inadvertent touches' that the saw blade tip might make on the rim will be inside the well and minor at best, if it touches/marks at all at all, but as I said, I don't recall ever doing that anyway.
Mind you, IIRC there was a time waaaay back in about 2013 when I put a small maybe 1" long piece of garden hose split lengthways in one side over the very end of the saw blade, so that it covered maybe almost an inch of the solid back/end bits of the blade that might touch the rim, not on the blade at all, but I rapidly found that doing that was more trouble than it was worth, and I've never done it since. Your call on that tho. However, if I'm going to be cutting a few tires off rims that I don't want to damage or even touch with the saw blade in any one session, then just to make it a little less 'iffy' if I do get tired of holding the saw so tight, I still might cut a maybe 10" by 8" section of tread out of the first tire I do for the day (or I cut a section out of any other dead tire that's handy ) and slip it into the little gap formed by pushing the tire bead down into the small well that's exposed, so that my section of cut tread can protect the rim from any inadvertent saw blade touches. Then I do all the cutting AWAY from the rim - upper side bead, sidewall, & maybe half of the tread first; then flip the wheel over and repeat the process from the other side, still cutting away from the rim all the while! When I'm in the groove, it takes about 30 seconds a tire, but it usually takes me a few to really get into the groove like that... Still, while it might take almost a minute for the first tire in any session, it's still a LOT easier than trying to get the bead up and over the rim edge, especially when it's on a rim with no well like those on our Spyders.
Over to you.
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-14-2024 at 11:52 PM.
i have an idea most reading what you wrote (your last 2 posts) prolly think you’re off yer nut Peter, OTOH, after imbibing a couple Voodoo Ranger Imperial IPA’s, it snot so far fetched. That said, once I start drinking I put the powder tools away, and why (one of the reasons) I still have all 8 fingers & 2 thumbs on both hands. I like what you had to say Peter, the way you take the tires off with the rip saw, especially the bit where you said you remove an 8 by 10 inch section of tread then inserting it between the bead and the rim insures the blade stays off the rim, I can see that clear as day. What really motivates me trying your way is I wouldn't have to hand the work off to someone else
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a happy childhood
Poke some holes in the edge of the old tires just above the bead, then zip tie the beads together with the heavy duty Zipties. After you get the beads pulled together as far as they will go, you should be able to angle the tire on the rim enough to get one edge off the wheel. I used to Zip Tie all the motorcycle tires together going all the way around. Most of the time they would slip on and off the rims without even using the tire spoons.
Jake, very odd you are not finding enough drop center with your rims. A couple years ago, on my friends Spyder, and his too is a 2021 RT Limited in Chalk color, I changed his tires.
Similar to what you are doing, manually broke the beads on both rim flanges of each wheel assembly. Used a 5 gallon bucket and rested the wheel assembly on the bucket. Quick squirt of WD around the old tires bead. Push the tire down to the drop center, and my short moto tire irons easily lifted the tires beads over the rim flanges.
Then installed his new Federal Formoza front tires, Dynamically balanced both and installed back on the Spyder.
Very odd you may need to resort to cutting off a Kenda tire. Every one I have replaced, by manually changing, has been a soft, low strength tire casing that easily removed from the rim.
All the best with it, and be careful as you cut the tire off.
Jake, very odd you are not finding enough drop center with your rims. A couple years ago, on my friends Spyder, and his too is a 2021 RT Limited in Chalk color, I changed his tires.
Similar to what you are doing, manually broke the beads on both rim flanges of each wheel assembly. Used a 5 gallon bucket and rested the wheel assembly on the bucket. Quick squirt of WD around the old tires bead. Push the tire down to the drop center, and my short moto tire irons easily lifted the tires beads over the rim flanges.
Then installed his new Federal Formoza front tires, Dynamically balanced both and installed back on the Spyder.
Very odd you may need to resort to cutting off a Kenda tire. Every one I have replaced, by manually changing, has been a soft, low strength tire casing that easily removed from the rim.
All the best with it, and be careful as you cut the tire off.
~~~PMK!, Thank you for participating in my thread. The more, the merrier! Peter didn’t ask nor did I mention, when attempting the dismount, I chose to start on the inboard side of the wheel. The outboard side, upon further examination has a bit of a well as you mention, close the edge of the rim. If you got the bead up and over with (as you stated) with little effort, then there is no reason I can’t do the same, unless they Spyder your friend has is equipped with different rims, not exactly an unheard of scenario. BTW, I was surprised to find the word (CHINA) stamped in the middle of the hub area (inboard) on the one wheel I have removed. I realize the Spyder is a world bike yet I was taken back finding that the wheel was manufactured in China
While I have your ear…did you use rim protectors along with the tire irons you used?
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a happy childhood
When I installed 175/55R15 Kumho Solus on my '21 RT Limited, they rubbed the fenders. Maybe your new Vred's have a different profile and won't rub. It's hard to tell without seeing them inflated, but they look to be more rounded at the edge vs mine. The Kumho is very flat across, and they definitely rubbed. Nothing a few washers couldn't correct.
Poke some holes in the edge of the old tires just above the bead, then zip tie the beads together with the heavy duty Zipties. After you get the beads pulled together as far as they will go, you should be able to angle the tire on the rim enough to get one edge off the wheel. I used to Zip Tie all the motorcycle tires together going all the way around. Most of the time they would slip on and off the rims without even using the tire spoons.
~~~forgive me but, I’m having a hard time envisioning what you are saying. Any chance you have a pic of this you could post? Thanking you in advance!
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a happy childhood
When I installed 175/55R15 Kumho Solus on my '21 RT Limited, they rubbed the fenders. Maybe your new Vred's have a different profile and won't rub. It's hard to tell without seeing them inflated, but they look to be more rounded at the edge vs mine. The Kumho is very flat across, and they definitely rubbed. Nothing a few washers couldn't correct.
Good luck!
~~~from memory, one of the reasons I chose the Quatracs, they’ve been a popular tire, especially amongst late model Spyderisti, w/little to no quirks. I don’t recall anyone having to shim, but if I do, I’ll come back here and mention so
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a have a happy childhood
~~~forgive me but, I’m having a hard time envisioning what you are saying. Any chance you have a pic of this you could post? Thanking you in advance!
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a happy childhood
I don't have a picture, but I can sketch a quick picture of anything. A power drill with a regular 3/8 bit should poke a hole right through a Kenda real easy. If you can pull the 2 beads together and secure them with Zipties, it might give you the room you need to get it over the rim. I used to Ziptie all the regular motorcycle tires togther, but without drilling any holes. I would just put the Zipties all the way around the tire and pull them down tight. That would let the beads drop into the lowest section of the wheel on the opposite side of the tire from the side you are trying to spoon off the rim. Maybe it you can pull the beads together on the Kendas, it will help get them off.
If that won't get them off, just about any independent tire shop has a machine that will do it. The local independent tire store in my area charges about $10 per wheel to swap tires, if you have the wheel off and take it to them, along with the new tire you are putting on. They don't handle the tires to fit a Spyder, but their tire mounting machine will work on the Spyder wheels. They also have one of the old style bubble balance machines in a back room that will balance the Spyder wheels. Few bucks more and they will mount and balace them.
Jake, Used a 5 gallon bucket and rested the wheel assembly on the bucket. Quick squirt of WD around the old tires bead. Push the tire down to the drop center, and my short moto tire irons easily lifted the tires beads over the rim flanges.
~~~Okay PMK, I’ll see your 5 gallon bucket and raise you a 32 gallon steel trash can
Originally Posted by PMK
Very odd you may need to resort to cutting off a Kenda tire. Every one I have replaced, by manually changing, has been a soft, low strength tire casing that easily removed from the rim.
All the best with it, and be careful as you cut the tire off.
~~~as evidenced by the pic above, I didn’t take a rip saw to the OEM Kenda tire. With a bit of tire lube and some patience I was able to remove the wheel by hand and the use of one tire lever
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a happy childhood
I don't have a picture, but I can sketch a quick picture of anything. A power drill with a regular 3/8 bit should poke a hole right through a Kenda real easy. If you can pull the 2 beads together and secure them with Zipties, it might give you the room you need to get it over the rim. I used to Ziptie all the regular motorcycle tires togther, but without drilling any holes. I would just put the Zipties all the way around the tire and pull them down tight. That would let the beads drop into the lowest section of the wheel on the opposite side of the tire from the side you are trying to spoon off the rim. Maybe it you can pull the beads together on the Kendas, it will help get them off.
If that won't get them off, just about any independent tire shop has a machine that will do it. The local independent tire store in my area charges about $10 per wheel to swap tires, if you have the wheel off and take it to them, along with the new tire you are putting on. They don't handle the tires to fit a Spyder, but their tire mounting machine will work on the Spyder wheels. They also have one of the old style bubble balance machines in a back room that will balance the Spyder wheels. Few bucks more and they will mount and balace them.
~~~now I understand what you were saying. I got the wheel off using tire levers. I worked on the outboard side of the wheel where there is a very small well for the opposing beads to lie in creating enough slack so I was able to finish the job by hand
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a happy childhood
There is some plastic pieces you can find on the web for cheap, called "Rim Savers". They will slip over the edge of the rim where you are using the tire spoon to keep you from skinning all the paint off the edge of the rim. You need a couple of them, because sometimes they aee stuck under the bead when you want to move on around the wheel.
There is some plastic pieces you can find on the web for cheap, called "Rim Savers". They will slip over the edge of the rim where you are using the tire spoon to keep you from skinning all the paint off the edge of the rim. You need a couple of them, because sometimes they aee stuck under the bead when you want to move on around the wheel.
~~~I bought my first set of 3 plastic rim protectors with the nylon cord loops from Honda in 1979 when I purchased a new CX-500 V- Twin from them the same year as I didn’t want to mar the painted 5spoke wheels. I’ve added to that set over the years & the last set of 3 I purchased with the cords were of a blue color. I picked up a set of 2 rim protectors from Amazon about a month ago but they won’t work on our Spyder rims. I’ll keep them just the same as I’ll likely use them on some other rims down the road
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a happy childhood
~~~I bought my first set of 3 plastic rim protectors with the nylon cord loops from Honda in 1979 when I purchased a new CX-500 V- Twin from them the same year as I didn’t want to mar the painted 5spoke wheels. I’ve added to that set over the years & the last set of 3 I purchased with the cords were of a blue color. I picked up a set of 2 rim protectors from Amazon about a month ago but they won’t work on our Spyder rims. I’ll keep them just the same as I’ll likely use them on some other rims down the road
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a happy childhood
I have the rim protectors. Have used the blue colored Motion Pro ones, and the white ones I think I got from Cycle Gear.
As for using the rim protectors, they can be a pain, often slipping or falling off as the tire is worked.
Will say though, using the 5 gallon bucket, I set the wheel assembly onto the bucket. As the tire is dismounted, it drops to the floor while the rim stays perched atop the bucket. I just prefer this technique vs lifting the rim upward out of the tire.
The bead breaker is a must have to do the task with minimal effort.
As for balancing, I accomplish electronic dynamically balancing. The fronts easily fit my Snap On automotive balancer. I use the “fine” setting which is within 1/10 ounce. That alone, when done correctly is a very smooth ride. A few years ago, I purchased a used set of Centramatics for the front from someone here, or maybe EBay.
Correctly dynamic balanced tires with the Centramatics also is one of those changes you just forget you did it. So smooth and combined is better than balancing alone.
There is some plastic pieces you can find on the web for cheap, called "Rim Savers". They will slip over the edge of the rim where you are using the tire spoon to keep you from skinning all the paint off the edge of the rim. You need a couple of them, because sometimes they aee stuck under the bead when you want to move on around the wheel.
The red colored bead stopper in the photo is nice if you change your own tires. Less contending with two tire irons. While they often suggest to dismount a typical motorcycle rear tire away from the sprocket side to lessen injuries of hitting your hand on the sprocket, I prefer using the sprocket if possible, to hold the first tire iron. Doing this keeps the tires bead above and outside of the rim flange.
Also, whenever possible, I dismount one side of the tire. Then flip it all over and dismount to opposite side. This places the rim into the tires center. From there, the rim is pushed further into the tires center, slightly rocked and then simply pulled out of the tire.
As you can read, dismounting by dropping the rim into the tires center means you no longer have a drive sprocket to secure a tire iron. Therefore since it is not always a Spyder tire change, you pick the best method first. For most it is far easier and cost effective to pay and have the tire change and balancing done by a tire shop.
As for your Spyder dealer doing the balancing correctly, they may, but I have fixed vibration issues that dealers gave up on and refused to correct. Try as they might, several times, they just are not good at balancing essentially a small car wheel, on a motorcycle tire balancer. Even our oem Kendas were shakers. Checked the oem balance and it was wrong by over one ounce. Corrected both fronts by dynamically balancing correctly, and this was before I installed those Centramatics, but those Kendas ran smooth. Not as nice and smooth as the Federal Formozas, but plenty good enough.
From what website did you buy the Vredestein tires?
Also, keep in mind the 175 width tires are 10mm (about 3/8") wider than stock Kenda. They will probably rub the inside of your fenders. Just sandwich two 5/16" washers in between the steering knuckle and and each of the four fender mounting braces. It's easier to do while you have the tire off for change out. Make sure to roll over the new, wider tires by hand to verify they don't rub.
~~~Mea Culpa! You were right. I can’t even get the wheel/tire onto the mounting studs let alone to see if they rub or not. And to add insult to injury or vice versa, I don’t have enough washers on hand to shim one of the fenders let alone both. Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda<LOL>
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile
Ps: My thread seeking to solve this problem is here:
When I installed 175/55R15 Kumho Solus on my '21 RT Limited, they rubbed the fenders. Maybe your new Vred's have a different profile and won't rub. It's hard to tell without seeing them inflated, but they look to be more rounded at the edge vs mine. The Kumho is very flat across, and they definitely rubbed. Nothing a few washers couldn't correct.
Good luck!
Originally Posted by shakin_jake
~~~Mea Culpa! You were right. I can’t even get the wheel/tire onto the mounting studs let alone to see if they rub or not. And to add insult to injury or vice versa, I don’t have enough washers on hand to shim one of the fenders let alone both. Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda<LOL>
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile
~~~~well, as it turns out…I was able to fit that new tire on the OEM wheel w/o shimming the fender. Peter educated me in another thread, how to get it all to fit. That said, I was careful to check to see if there was any clearance issues, once the wheel was bolted up, and there wasn’t any so, it’s looks like I dodged a bullet this time. Thanks for your help none the less!
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a happy childhood
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-19-2024 at 10:00 PM.
Reason: Fixed quote display ;-)
Reply With Quote
Originally Posted by Mikey
If in Doubt, Don't Do It! 
); 
) which is clearly something BRP needed to do for the very lightly constructed OEM Kendas in order to keep them safely mounted on the rims during hard cornering!! This 'deeper bead edge' on the rim forces you (or whoever is dismounting the tire) to be very careful about where that 'other' tire bead is sitting when you try to lift a bead up and over the rim edge - if the 'other' bead isn't absobloodylutely in the deepest part of the rim well, it's bloody hard if not impossible to get the levered bead up over the rim edge and therefore the tire off the rim without either reeeeaaalllly long tire levers (or 'greedy bar' type lengths of pipe/tube slip-overs to extend the leverage on the tire lever - just be careful not to bend the levers too much if you choose this option! 
) or hydraulic assistance!! And for some reason, I've found this is especially the case with the OEM Kendas, not quite so much or so often encountered with a/mkt auto tires and their stiffer/better constructed sidewalls. 
It's just easier that way, and really, you're not gonna be keeping that worn Kenda to use again, are you?? 
I haven't seen too many 'non-BRP' J type rims that DON'T have a well in the rim in order to make it easier to remove/fit tires, and almost all of those without a well that I HAVE seen with this design flaw (or deliberate action for whatever means) have been on Can Am machines! 
And if you don't do it/hold it properly/hard/tight enough to start with, then because of the angle you're holding the saw at, while I'm pretty sure I've never hit a rim yet, I'd suggest that any 'inadvertent touches' that the saw blade tip might make on the rim will be inside the well and minor at best, if it touches/marks at all at all, but as I said, I don't recall ever doing that anyway. 
