2014 front pulley replacement - does it need the flywheel?

[merlot]

I bought a 2014 RT-S with 65000kms (40,000 mls?) on it.
When I checked the belt tension (Krikit 2) it was around 300lbs on the ground.
When I reset tension to 140lbs, the belt was no longer true on the rear sprocket (it was trying to come off the sprocket; well, half anyway.) This tells me that the belt is compromised, so tomorrow I will pick up a new belt. But the real problem I have with the bike is a cyclic (rhythmic) noise which starts almost immediately and doesn't go out 'til around 55 MPH. It's like an owl hooting around 4 times per second, not loud, but intrusive none the less (drives me nuts on a long haul).

So now I am thinking I may as well change the front sprocket too, but here's where things get complicated... I want the upgraded sprocket, but when I look on Parts Shark, the 2014 has a "flywheel"(?) and the 2018 doesn't - but both sprockets are the same part number.

My plan now is to fit the upgrade sprocket without the flywheel.

Does anyone know why the 2014 has this flywheel and what is its function?

My thoughts are that the flywheel was fitted to the 2013 (V-twin engine) in order to even out the lumpiness of the firing and that it really wasn't needed for the triple...

TIA
Russ

[Mikey]

Well for starters I would work on getting that belt lined up in the rear, before buying a new belt. It's a pain in the @#$, but you'll be a little richer if you do. Why if you have a 2014 would you want to buy a new sprocket for it? Is it showing the red rust? If so then yes replace it, but if it isn't showing rust leave it alone! If it's not broke, why fix it? I for one would not put one of these new sprockets on if I didn't have to because I don't know if there any better than the old ones. It's your money and time, but I would line the belt up you have first! Good Luck be safe.

[Little Blue]

....Definitely check out the Belt adjustment. There are several good U Tube Videos on doing the belt. I think you will enjoy the Time and you can save some money.

Look and inspect your belt for any problems.
Check and adjust your belt.
IF you need a new belt..... Purchase the OEM.

Good Luck on Your Mission. ....

[PMK]

I bought a 2014 RT-S with 65000kms (40,000 mls?) on it.
When I checked the belt tension (Krikit 2) it was around 300lbs on the ground.
When I reset tension to 140lbs, the belt was no longer true on the rear sprocket (it was trying to come off the sprocket; well, half anyway.) This tells me that the belt is compromised, so tomorrow I will pick up a new belt. But the real problem I have with the bike is a cyclic (rhythmic) noise which starts almost immediately and doesn't go out 'til around 55 MPH. It's like an owl hooting around 4 times per second, not loud, but intrusive none the less (drives me nuts on a long haul).

So now I am thinking I may as well change the front sprocket too, but here's where things get complicated... I want the upgraded sprocket, but when I look on Parts Shark, the 2014 has a "flywheel"(?) and the 2018 doesn't - but both sprockets are the same part number.

My plan now is to fit the upgrade sprocket without the flywheel.

Does anyone know why the 2014 has this flywheel and what is its function?

My thoughts are that the flywheel was fitted to the 2013 (V-twin engine) in order to even out the lumpiness of the firing and that it really wasn't needed for the triple...

TIA
Russ

As a suggestion, consider revisiting the parts manual for the 2014 RTS. If you notice, the flywheel you mentioned is not utilized on the 2014 RTS. Granted, the circus at BRP / Can Am did a simple copy and paste of the illustration, but the itemized part number / nomenclature list clearly states it is not a 2014 RTS part, and not available for that model.

No doubt others here will differ with this, and is absolutely acceptable by me.

All the best resolving your belt tracking issues. Certainly may be resolved by installing a new drive belt, but I highly suspect there are additional issues that should be inspected.

[BajaRon]

As others have mentioned. Your belt is probably just fine. It's out of adjustment (tensioners incorrectly aligned). If you put a new belt on, it will probably run in the same place as the old one. You will be wasting your money.

140 on the ground is fine for a 2008-2012 Spyder. But quite loose for a 2014+ (1330 motor only). I would recommend 220 - 260 on the ground.

[JayBros]

My 2014 RTS-SE6, built in March 2014, has the whole sprocket assembly consisting of the 28 tooth sprocket, flywheel, and four bolts that fasten the flywheel to the sprocket that is shown in the various models of the 2014 RT in the Can-Am parts diagrams. I understand BRP made a change sometime during the 2014 production year in which they changed to the sprocket with no attached flywheel. The original assembly has served me in good stead well through 86K+ miles.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

As others have mentioned. Your belt is probably just fine. It's out of adjustment (tensioners incorrectly aligned). If you put a new belt on, it will probably run in the same place as the old one. You will be wasting your money.

140 on the ground is fine for a 2008-2012 Spyder. But quite loose for a 2014+. I would recommend 220 - 260 on the ground.

" 220 - 260 on the ground " .... I also have a 14 RT, and have been using ( from new ) 160 +/- lbs OTG and have No Vibes and the belt tracks fine ...... the OP finding the belt at 300 lbs.. I would be concerned about the condition of all the teeth on both sprockets ...... I would loosen the belt and leave it for about a week, then put it back on at 160 lbs. and see how it is ..... good luck ... Mike

[Isopedella]

Good time to check the rear wheel bearings are silky smooth while your sorting the new belt.
Hell even have a squiz at the rear brake pads....
Videos on that on the tube.
As are adjusting the tracking with the Spyders ass in the air and running in gear.
Block the front wheels fore and aft.

Just dont crap your pants when its all buttoned up and you get a fault onscreen, like I did.

It was suggested a short ride and it will clear. OK. Give that a crack and mine did, in about 4 bike lengths. Didn't get out the gate and it resolved itself. Ever watching Nanny didn't like the front wheels stopped and the rear spinning it seems. .

[BajaRon]

Good time to check the rear wheel bearings are silky smooth while your sorting the new belt.
Hell even have a squiz at the rear brake pads....
Videos on that on the tube.
As are adjusting the tracking with the Spyders ass in the air and running in gear.
Block the front wheels fore and aft.

Just dont crap your pants when its all buttoned up and you get a fault onscreen, like I did.

It was suggested a short ride and it will clear. OK. Give that a crack and mine did, in about 4 bike lengths. Didn't get out the gate and it resolved itself. Ever watching Nanny didn't like the front wheels stopped and the rear spinning it seems. .

One of the easiest 'Repair' jobs you'll ever have on the Spyder (clearing codes after doing a belt adjustment).

It's one of those 'Ride More - Worry Less' situations.

[merlot]

Well for starters I would work on getting that belt lined up in the rear, before buying a new belt. It's a pain in the @#$, but you'll be a little richer if you do. Why if you have a 2014 would you want to buy a new sprocket for it? Is it showing the red rust? If so then yes replace it, but if it isn't showing rust leave it alone! If it's not broke, why fix it? I for one would not put one of these new sprockets on if I didn't have to because I don't know if there any better than the old ones. It's your money and time, but I would line the belt up you have first! Good Luck be safe.

after resetting the tension(release both sides evenly) on the belt the alignment was way off....it needed half a turn on one side to re align....this tells me that there is sthing wrong with the belt........there are other reasons to replace the front sprocket,red dust is only 1 of the reasons....since i saw the post by PMK on his 2014 sprocket which showed white paste on the spline i have been an advocate of spline paste as opposed to chem weld with a locktite product....my sprockets have never suffered red dust nor will they ever.........my guess is that the front sprocket is "broke" so for a few dollars i will replace it....thanks for your reply

[merlot]

As a suggestion, consider revisiting the parts manual for the 2014 RTS. If you notice, the flywheel you mentioned is not utilized on the 2014 RTS. Granted, the circus at BRP / Can Am did a simple copy and paste of the illustration, but the itemized part number / nomenclature list clearly states it is not a 2014 RTS part, and not available for that model.

No doubt others here will differ with this, and is absolutely acceptable by me.

All the best resolving your belt tracking issues. Certainly may be resolved by installing a new drive belt, but I highly suspect there are additional issues that should be inspected.

yes...no need to revisit,i did notice no part number or availability for the flywheel....i am chasing a cyclic noise which i hope to resolve with a new belt..i am definately not an advocate of belt tensioners so cant go down that track.....and if i suspect the belt then its a no brainer to replace the front sprocket too......the noise comes in straight away under load then goes out naround 50MPH but if i back off slightly the noise goes too....thanks for your input...hopefully its not a gearbox bearing although the rear bearings are all good so fingers crossed on the sprocket

[merlot]

As others have mentioned. Your belt is probably just fine. It's out of adjustment (tensioners incorrectly aligned). If you put a new belt on, it will probably run in the same place as the old one. You will be wasting your money.

140 on the ground is fine for a 2008-2012 Spyder. But quite loose for a 2014+ (1330 motor only). I would recommend 220 - 260 on the ground.

thanks for reply....how would you classify a belt which has done 40,000 miles at 300 lbs? and gives weird effects when the tension is corrected?....my money says its stuffed...well i will know soon enough...the front sprocket isnt too expensive so i will change both before i start pulling the gearbox apart

[BajaRon]

thanks for reply....how would you classify a belt which has done 40,000 miles at 300 lbs? and gives weird effects when the tension is corrected?....my money says its stuffed...well i will know soon enough...the front sprocket isnt too expensive so i will change both before i start pulling the gearbox apart

Proper tension is just 1 aspect. It also needs to be aligned correctly to get the belt to run true on the sprocket. Since the rated working tension on that belt is 600 lbs., 300 lbs. being 1/2 of that rating, it isn't going to damage the belt at all to have run at that setting.

You say that the front sprocket is 'Broken'. Exactly what is broken about it?

It's your bike. Do what you think best. But it seems like you are committed to going down a fairly expensive rabbit hole here. The information you've provided does not appear to match up to the solution.

[merlot]

Proper tension is just 1 aspect. It also needs to be aligned correctly to get the belt to run true on the sprocket. Since the rated working tension on that belt is 600 lbs., 300 lbs. being 1/2 of that rating, it isn't going to damage the belt at all to have run at that setting.

You say that the front sprocket is 'Broken'. Exactly what is broken about it?

It's your bike. Do what you think best. But it seems like you are committed to going down a fairly expensive rabbit hole here. The information you've provided does not appear to match up to the solution.

OK Ron
The bike is making a cyclic noise.... not a vibration... where would you start? The noise is under load from start to 50 mph.... back off the throttle and the noise stops....... It sounds like the belt to me - a bearing would be a constant hum, not a "whup, whup, whup.... I am guessing belt, so I was getting a second hand one just to try it, but that deal fell thru.... Today, I bought a new belt, so will fit that this week then report my findings.

Re the sprocket.... it's not impossible that the teeth have worn enough to give me the sound I am hearing given the strange alignment reaction when I loosened (evenly) the belt.... So I will eliminate the 2 components I suspect then go from there.

[BajaRon]

OK Ron
The bike is making a cyclic noise.... not a vibration... where would you start? The noise is under load from start to 50 mph.... back off the throttle and the noise stops....... It sounds like the belt to me - a bearing would be a constant hum, not a "whup, whup, whup.... I am guessing belt, so I was getting a second hand one just to try it, but that deal fell thru.... Today, I bought a new belt, so will fit that this week then report my findings.

Re the sprocket.... it's not impossible that the teeth have worn enough to give me the sound I am hearing given the strange alignment reaction when I loosened (evenly) the belt.... So I will eliminate the 2 components I suspect then go from there.

OK, so worn, not broken on the sprocket. Visual inspection would verify that. Without hearing the sound you describe, hard to give good advise on that one. It will be interesting to get the results of your effort. I hope it resolves your problem.

Did you ever get the belt to track properly? A belt running off the sprocket will definitely give you weird noises.

[merlot]

OK, so worn, not broken on the sprocket. Visual inspection would verify that. Without hearing the sound you describe, hard to give good advise on that one. It will be interesting to get the results of your effort. I hope it resolves your problem.

Did you ever get the belt to track properly? A belt running off the sprocket will definitely give you weird noises.

No, I didn't Ron.
The best I could do, using a wooden wedge against the right side of the swing arm, was around 1.5mm gap to the inner flange... this was another pointer to a weird belt as usually I have no trouble setting belts to wherever I want them to sit; but the noise was there before I slackened the belt off, so this misalignment isn't causing the noise.

Well, that was timely... I looked at the pic and saw my trailer cable is rubbing thru.... ah well, another job on the list... gotta luv this bike!

[BajaRon]

No, I didn't Ron.
The best I could do, using a wooden wedge against the right side of the swing arm, was around 1.5mm gap to the inner flange... this was another pointer to a weird belt as usually I have no trouble setting belts to wherever I want them to sit; but the noise was there before I slackened the belt off, so this misalignment isn't causing the noise.

Well, that was timely... I looked at the pic and saw my trailer cable is rubbing thru.... ah well, another job on the list... gotta luv this bike!

I am sorry. I do not understand what you are doing here. How does a wooden wedge have anything to do with adjusting belt tension or position on the pulley? The only way you would not be able to bring the belt further to the right is if it were riding on the inside flange of the front pulley. With the adjusters, you should be able to move the belt to where it is hard against the inside flange on the rear pulley. You don't want this, of course. But the fact that you say you can't even get it close means something is very strange here.

The tensioners at the back of the swingarm are what make these adjustments. Are you loosening the axle when you do this?

[Peter Aawen]

No, I didn't Ron.
The best I could do, using a wooden wedge against the right side of the swing arm, was around 1.5mm gap to the inner flange... this was another pointer to a weird belt as usually I have no trouble setting belts to wherever I want them to sit; but the noise was there before I slackened the belt off, so this misalignment isn't causing the noise.

Well, that was timely... I looked at the pic and saw my trailer cable is rubbing thru.... ah well, another job on the list... gotta luv this bike!

Hey Russ, if that's the worst your belt gets, I'd be calling it 'aligned well enough' and leave it at that!! They do 'walk' a little on the sprocket as you ride, and while you don't want the belt either pushing up so hard on the inner flange that it rides up on it or walking off the outer edge, in reality, if it's anywhere in the middle of the width of the rear sprocket, it shouldn't be a major issue as long as it's running true and you've aligned the front wheels off the rear wheel!

However, from what you've told us, I'd be wondering more about the condition of the belt tensioners/aligners in the rear of the Swing Arms than anything else - BRP REALLY cheaped out on these things, and I've seen more than one Spyder with one or both of the bolts in them stretched unevenly or even stripped in parts of their threads, producing EXACTLY the concerns you have with slackening them off evenly and getting un-even results!! In my experience, and ESPECIALLY if a ham-fisted excuse of a dealer tech has ever aligned/tensioned the belt, they are just TOO CHEAP to consider that giving each bolt the same number of turns as you agpdjust will change the tension &/or alignment evenly - you hafta ignore the 'number of turns' thing completely, and simply go by where the belt ends up!

As for the noise, I've seen a few Spyders lately where the 'teeth' on the belts have been worn into an uneven shape, and so that uneven wear made a 'thrumming' noise (or worse!) on drive as the belts ran on the sprockets... Admittedly, most of these have been on high milage machines (well over 100,000 km) but one was fairly low milage machine that'd been ridden REALLY hard from the outset, and while 'normal riding' made this loud 'thrumming' noise on drive, really aggressive acceleration made it sound like a machine gun as the worn leading edges of the nubs on the teeth skipped over the cogs on the sprocket!! There were other problems with that one, and the owner didn't want to spend money to fix it as they were planning on selling as is, so it went home like that!

There was another relatively low milage machine that had been ridden a LOT in sandy conditions, and the nubs on that belt were quite worn while the cogs on the sprocket were worn to a measurable but far less extent. Everything still functioned fine, except for this loud 'thrumming' noise on drive... A few small dabs of silicone grease on the sprocket cured the noise for a short while, but it rapidly came back and to my mind, it was pretty clear that it was the wear of the teeth on the belt that was the major contributor to the noise. I suggested a new belt for that reason, and a watching brief on the sprockets; so that's what we did, and the noise disappeared; the last I heard, that'd resolved everything, and it was still racking up the (sandy) kms while running fine, despite the slightly worn sprocket teeth.

So, for whatever it's worth; I'd leave the alignment as is, or if you really feel the need, look at replacing the cheap arsed BRP alignment/tensioners with something of a better quality that is bolted into the swing arm and works positively both ways (I reckon Stu can help you there! ) and I'd carefully check the belt & sprocket teeth for wear, maybe trying the grease check to confirm that's where the noise is coming from, and only replacing belt &/or sprockets as necessary.

Over to you!

[merlot]

Thanks for reply Ron.
When I tried to align the belt, I loosened the right-side adjuster..... but the wheel doesn't move to the left because the belt tension pulls it to the right... so I used a wedge to push the wheel to the left then tightened the axle.... but when I tighten the axle, the right adjuster goes "loose", so the wheel is pulled right again under tension (bolt).... After 3 goes I gave up and accepted the belt alignment where it was....... When I fit my new belt, I will take the load off the belt then get the adjusters nipped, I won't be so lazy.... Rear wheel bearings (3) are fine..... Fitting the new belt and sprocket (front) today.

[merlot]

Hi Pete and thanks for reply.

If that thrumming is rhythmic (not constant) then that's what I've got.... I didn't want to address the front sprocket as I am leasing the bike out to an interstater at the end of the month and was going to attack the problem after the lease.... But the ride to the Healesville Muster has prompted me to get it fixed now..... I've got 2 good rides before the lease and want to enjoy them... Trying to align this belt was a challenge as when I tightened up the axle the right side adjuster was coming loose.... I got lazy and accepted the belt alignment, sure it was a little further away than I'd like but it was close... prob running on the outside of the front sprocket but I've pulled this bike apart so many times now (mainly frunk off to try different headlight globes) that I didn't want to go near it... Today I will fit the new gear then report back on the result.


Also when I picked up the new sprocket, I was given the choice... a new OEM sprocket (white) with the OEM bolt, or the upgrade sprocket with the newer HT bolt.... so I chose the latter... I am not looking for red dust fix, only the noise.

[Peter Aawen]

Hi Pete and thanks for reply.

If that thrumming is rhythmic (not constant) then that's what I've got.... ....

That it is!

Sorta sounds like some of the sprocket/belt teeth match up a bit better & make little or no noise, while others don't, so they make noise.... Only the 'frequency of thrumm' isn't anywhere near fast enough for it to be happening on every rotation of either the sprockets or the belt - so I reckon it's gotta be something to do with the harmonics of the belt teeth, sorta like the deeper resonance you get behind the plucked notes when you're trying to tune a guitar & the strings' tune doesn't quite match, if that makes any sense to you?!

That 'three pea-sized spots of grease spaced evenly around the sprocket' test usually quietens the thrumm for a little while, except for on that one Spyder with the 'machine gun' noise I mentioned, a noise that was due to the belt teeth skipping over the teeth on the sprocket under aggressive acceleration - the grease test only made that noise worse, but at least it made it pretty clear what was going on!

I'd guess that if you've still got the noise after replacing the front sprocket and the belt, then maybe it's the teeth on the rear sprocket that are the issue (just call me Captain Obvious if you want! )

Good Luck!

Ps: I reckon it's a good call going for the Silver/Pewter 'Sprocket & washer' with the newer HT bolt over the older ceramic coated White sprocket - if you're gonna replace it, then you might as well get the latest and greatest 'fix' even if you haven't seen the problem yet!

I haven't been able to inspect them side by side yet, but I suspect that the Silver/Pewter or whatever colour on the latest 'sprocket with washer' is a similar ceramic coating to that they put on the White sprockets - a coating that was applied to reduce the obtrusive 'wind noise' the sprockets made on the newer models with less tupperware covering that area; so by fitting that one you'll be killing two birds with one sto.... errrm, sprocket!

[Mikey]

I am sorry. I do not understand what you are doing here. How does a wooden wedge have anything to do with adjusting belt tension or position on the pulley? The only way you would not be able to bring the belt further to the right is if it were riding on the inside flange of the front pulley. With the adjusters, you should be able to move the belt to where it is hard against the inside flange on the rear pulley. You don't want this, of course. But the fact that you say you can't even get it close means something is very strange here.

The tensioners at the back of the swingarm are what make these adjustments. Are you loosening the axle when you do this?

Ron, I am thinking they are loosing the axle shaft to much, and are not getting the caps tight on the end of the swing arms! I can't wait to see what the out come is!!!

[merlot]

That it is!

Sorta sounds like some of the sprocket/belt teeth match up a bit better & make little or no noise, while others don't, so they make noise.... Only the 'frequency of thrumm' isn't anywhere near fast enough for it to be happening on every rotation of either the sprockets or the belt - so I reckon it's gotta be something to do with the harmonics of the belt teeth, sorta like the deeper resonance you get behind the plucked notes when you're trying to tune a guitar & the strings' tune doesn't quite match, if that makes any sense to you?!

That 'three pea-sized spots of grease spaced evenly around the sprocket' test usually quietens the thrumm for a little while, except for on that one Spyder with the 'machine gun' noise I mentioned, a noise that was due to the belt teeth skipping over the teeth on the sprocket under aggressive acceleration - the grease test only made that noise worse, but at least it made it pretty clear what was going on!

I'd guess that if you've still got the noise after replacing the front sprocket and the belt, then maybe it's the teeth on the rear sprocket that are the issue (just call me Captain Obvious if you want! )

Good Luck!

Ps: I reckon it's a good call going for the Silver/Pewter 'Sprocket & washer' with the newer HT bolt over the older ceramic coated White sprocket - if you're gonna replace it, then you might as well get the latest and greatest 'fix' even if you haven't seen the problem yet!

I haven't been able to inspect them side by side yet, but I suspect that the Silver/Pewter or whatever colour on the latest 'sprocket with washer' is a similar ceramic coating to that they put on the White sprockets - a coating that was applied to reduce the obtrusive 'wind noise' the sprockets made on the newer models with less tupperware covering that area; so by fitting that one you'll be killing two birds with one sto.... errrm, sprocket!

just to let u no Pete
yesterday i removed the pulley..as you can see from the pics it was rusted on....it was a bear to remove but after i fitted the new pulley and belt my tension increased from 140ft/lbs OTG to 200 ft/lbs OTG ......also the belt,when side by side with the new belt,showed stretching after 6 teeth. the new combo was a breeze to align and i left the tension at 200.there is now no acoustic anomalies and gear changes are noticeably improved(due to extra tension)...one happy camper