Gas Gauge showing Full when tank is not - Why?

[Cirhere]

I have a 2020 RTL I filled up went about 100 miles stopped and shut it off and when I started it up the Gas gauge is showing full, What would cause that

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I have a 2020 RTL I filled up went about 100 miles stopped and shut it off and when I started it up the Gas gauge is showing full, What would cause that

Well you could be getting 38 to 40 MPG ..... and most gas gauges I have had read very slow if the tank is really full .... I use the OEM gas gauge as an ESTIMATE only .... Mike

[Peter Aawen]

If you do a Search & some reading, there's a fair bit of info on the Why's & Wherefores of these gas gauges being inherently unreliable & inaccurate, and a lot of recommendations to NEVER run the tank dry; NEVER rely on the gas gauge; and NEVER forget to reset a Trip meter when you fill up so that you can use your miles travelled since last filled to make sure you don't get caught out!!

[BajaRon]

If you do a Search & some reading, there's a fair bit of info on the Why's & Wherefores of these gas gauges being inherently unreliable & inaccurate, and a lot of recommendations to NEVER run the tank dry; NEVER rely on the gas gauge; and NEVER forget to reset a Trip meter when you fill up so that you can use your miles travelled since last filled to make sure you don't get caught out!!

That's a LOT of Nevers, there Peter... For guys like me that are always doing things I should never do. This is a tall order!

[Peter Aawen]

That's a LOT of Nevers, there Peter... For guys like me that are always doing things I should never do. This is a tall order!

Yeah, I know... but there are some things where you really should take the advice on board, and others where you can ignore it at your own discretion... or peril - it's sorta like deciding to stick your hands in a meat grinder or deciding to rely on a Spyder/Ryker gas gauge... They might not sound like they're much the same thing, certainly not physically; but both will probably ultimately result in a similar pain in your wallet, so you gotta be smart in your choices, don't you! Besides, it never ceases to amaze me (didja see what I did there?? ) how many people ignore those fairly simple strictures and then complain when the outcomes they were warned would happen if they ignored the 'nevers' actually does occur!! Surprise Surprise!

I reckon someone once said something along the lines of 'you can lead a horse to water, but you can't...' that might apply.... Or was it the admonition in Proverbs 23:9??

They ask, so I'm Just Sayin' & Puttin' it out there - then it's up to the individual reader/rider to do with it as they will, isn't it?!

[vito1943]

Unless I take my time and reduce the flow of the gas pump I will not get to fill the tank to close to its capacity. So when it clicks off, I then raise the gas pump nozzle a bit and usually easily get 1/2 to a full gallon in. If I stop at about 1/2 gallon after the initial click of the pump turning off I know I have about 6.5 gallons available. I also know that I normally get about 32 mpg. But being cautious I lower that estimate to 30 mpg, and look for a gas station when I am down to about a full gallon, meaning I can ride about 165 miles before being concerned. In truth, when I hit 150 I start planning on stopping to fill up. I am conservative in this because I hope to never get stuck running out of gas, and so far, with 40 years of riding, I have not had that particular problem.

[BajaRon]

Gas Gauge showing Full when tank is not - Why?

The short answer is, that's the way it was engineered. Could they make an accurate fuel gauge? Sure! Will they? Well, it's been going on 16 years and they haven't done it yet. The Ryker is horrendous! That gauge shows full or near full down to about 25% fuel. Then drops like a rock.

The advise to reset your trip indicator and get to know your bike is good. But depending on that particular ride. Your fuel mileage can vary a great deal. Filling your tank is the best insurance against grief. Very few actually do this, though many think they are because the gauge shows 'Full'. Another engineering feat of excellence... Well, not exactly.

It takes a bit of practice. But well worth the effort, thought just my personal opinion.

[rjinaz86323]

relating this to my Harley days, I think this also applies to the Spyder. The gas in the tank is also used to cool the fuel pump. Running it dry or close to dry, I believe, will put undo stress on the fuel pump. I try to never allow the low fuel light to come on. This still gives me around 200 miles on a tank, depending on the speed I am running. I have gone as far as 240 on some slower backroads and never saw the light.

[Cirhere]

Yeah, I know... but there are some things where you really should take the advice on board, and others where you can ignore it at your own discretion... or peril - it's sorta like deciding to stick your hands in a meat grinder or deciding to rely on a Spyder/Ryker gas gauge... They might not sound like they're much the same thing, certainly not physically; but both will probably ultimately result in a similar pain in your wallet, so you gotta be smart in your choices, don't you! Besides, it never ceases to amaze me (didja see what I did there?? ) how many people ignore those fairly simple strictures and then complain when the outcomes they were warned would happen if they ignored the 'nevers' actually does occur!! Surprise Surprise!

I reckon someone once said something along the lines of 'you can lead a horse to water, but you can't...' that might apply.... Or was it the admonition in Proverbs 23:9??

They ask, so I'm Just Sayin' & Puttin' it out there - then it's up to the individual reader/rider to do with it as they will, isn't it?!

I know all this I reset my trip and watch mileage My question was WHY is there a fix
I didn't ask anything else, I was not going to blame anyone if I ran out of gas, it was a simple inquiry into a solution or fix nothing more

[BajaRon]

Yeah, I know... but there are some things where you really should take the advice on board, and others where you can ignore it at your own discretion... or peril - it's sorta like deciding to stick your hands in a meat grinder or deciding to rely on a Spyder/Ryker gas gauge... They might not sound like they're much the same thing, certainly not physically; but both will probably ultimately result in a similar pain in your wallet, so you gotta be smart in your choices, don't you! Besides, it never ceases to amaze me (didja see what I did there?? ) how many people ignore those fairly simple strictures and then complain when the outcomes they were warned would happen if they ignored the 'nevers' actually does occur!! Surprise Surprise!

I reckon someone once said something along the lines of 'you can lead a horse to water, but you can't...' that might apply.... Or was it the admonition in Proverbs 23:9??

They ask, so I'm Just Sayin' & Puttin' it out there - then it's up to the individual reader/rider to do with it as they will, isn't it?!

Oh! I'm not arguing with you Peter. You're right, of course. And I agree that if you stick your hand in a meat grinder, knowing what the results will be (I saw someone who did this so I've decided I know all I need to know about the subject), I don't think you have the right to complain about it.

[Peter Aawen]

I know all this I reset my trip and watch mileage My question was WHY is there a fix
I didn't ask anything else, I was not going to blame anyone if I ran out of gas, it was a simple inquiry into a solution or fix nothing more

That post wasn't having a go at you Cirhere, just responding to Ron's post above it.

But there is a lot of discussion about the inherently inaccurate gas gauges here on the Forum, some with diagrams and pics of the odd tank shape that contributes so much to the issue, AND ALSO that makes it so bloody hard to properly fill your tank!

But as rjinaz mentions above, as with many fuel injected engines these days, the fuel pump (& sender) are immersed in the gas tank, and both the pump and the entire fuel injection system use the gas remaining in the tank as both coolant and lubricant for their extremely fine tolerance components, so you MUST leave enough gas in the tank to keep it all lubricated AND to sufficiently disperse the heat these high speed/high pressure fine tolerance & often PLASTIC components run at!! If you don't, you WILL be damaging those very important components! The bits that make them work & keep your engine running as powerfully and as economically as they can are often running so close together that even just a single molecule of water between them can be too big for them to handle without damage; but luckily that won't cause instant destruction &/or stoppage, or probably more correctly, UNluckily, cos if you try to compress tiny molecules of water under high pressure when there's enough heat around, they'll instantly flash to superheated steam that'll instantly melt any high quality steel the superheated steam comes into contact with, so you can imagine the damage that'll do to plastic!! And while that damage might not cause instant stoppage cos it's microscopic to start with, every time that tiny bit of damage rotates past its opposite component, usually in a marginally different place to the last time it went round, where it'll create even more damage, damage that only grows and ultimately destroys these very critical parts of your bike!

So there's really no solution that anyone but BRP/Can-Am could apply to this issue, but even if they did, it wouldn't ever be back-dated even if it was applicable to the earlier models; and the only safe 'fix' is to NEVER RELY on your gas gauge, cos it's inherently inaccurate & unreliable due to the shape of the tank and the design of the fuel pump & sender!

Bugga! There's ANOTHER 'never'!!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I know all this I reset my trip and watch mileage My question was WHY is there a fix
I didn't ask anything else, I was not going to blame anyone if I ran out of gas, it was a simple inquiry into a solution or fix nothing more

It's a crying Shame that Peter is always giving TOO MUCH INFORMATION ....Have you considered Flagging your post to the Moderators warning that Peter is giving out way to much useful, helpful info ...... .....JMHO .... Mike

[Mikey]

I know all this I reset my trip and watch mileage My question was WHY is there a fix
I didn't ask anything else, I was not going to blame anyone if I ran out of gas, it was a simple inquiry into a solution or fix nothing more

To put it in a nut shell,-----------------NO!!!

[DaniBoy]

If you do a Search & some reading, there's a fair bit of info on the Why's & Wherefores of these gas gauges being inherently unreliable & inaccurate, and a lot of recommendations to NEVER run the tank dry; NEVER rely on the gas gauge; and NEVER forget to reset a Trip meter when you fill up so that you can use your miles travelled since last filled to make sure you don't get caught out!!

Peter, this could be your shortest post ever!

[Peter Aawen]

Peter, this could be your shortest post ever!

No it's not!

[pegasus1300]

"I reckon someone once said something along the lines of 'you can lead a horse to water, but you can't...' that might apply...."Peter Aawen

and sometimes it doesn't help to salt the oats.

[Cirhere]

It was a simple question nothing more I have read threads about gas gauge being inaccurate but I thought someone may have a recent fix, I totally regret asking a simple question it won't happen again

[Peter Aawen]

It was a simple question nothing more I have read threads about gas gauge being inaccurate but I thought someone may have a recent fix, I totally regret asking a simple question it won't happen again

I don't think anyone's trying to be narky about your question Cirhere Well, not being narky at you or your question anyway, altho I couldn't/wouldn't say the same about what may have been posted regarding everyone else who may have replied here ( ) and especially not about BRP/Can Am and their hand in this ongoing inaccurate gas gauge problem that's STILL WITH US after 15 years or so...

And that's really what it all comes back to - BRP/Can Am are the ONLY entity who can realistically do anything truly worthwhile about the inherently inaccurate gas gauge by properly redesigning the sender, its float arrangement, & improving the fill-ability of the tanks; and as the most important people in keeping their business viable, we, their customers, have been complaining about the inaccurate gauges & the difficulties with filling the tank properly and harping on about it here & elsewhere as well as to them since about 2008, and over that time BRP/Can Am have been made aware of it in a multitude of ways, yet both issues are STILL BLOODY WELL HERE, and yet they've done basically NOTHING apart from making a pretty feeble attempt back in 2014 that slightly improved the regularity & reliability of the gauge itself that slightly improved the inherent inaccuracy of the gauge reading, but really did absofreakinlutely NOTHING to make the sender any more accurate to improve the reliability & accuracy of what the gauge shows with respect to the true amount of gas remaining in the tank; NOR have they done anything to make it any easier to properly fill their tanks in that time either!

Just Sayin'

[ARtraveler]

BRP is BRP is BRP.

I have owned seven Spyders since their inception. None have had perfect gas guages. One actually had a bad one that was way off. 2010 RT. Most of us fixed that one by disconnecting the actual gauge. In those days when the accessory gauge was disconnected it automatically went back to a digital gauge...which was more accurate.

The electronic "help" information is overrated baloney. The trip odometer is your friend. Set one to zero each time you fill up. When you get close to two hundred miles...time to fill up. Most 1330's, the fill light is not on yet. YOU must fill to the same level each time. After auto shut off...most people can get another gallon plus into the tank. Pull the nozzle out of the tank, fill to the ring, stop, let it settle for a couple seconds and fill to the ring again. That is the "secret."

Once you know "your machine," you can drive with confidence. "We don't need no steenking gas gauges."

[BajaRon]

It was a simple question nothing more I have read threads about gas gauge being inaccurate but I thought someone may have a recent fix, I totally regret asking a simple question it won't happen again

I would say your question was answered in great detail. The short answer is that there isn't a 'Fix' other than those offered. We all share your disappointment in this reality. But being disappointed in the Work-A-Rounds offered is, I think, misplaced.

[Woodenfish]

That post wasn't having a go at you Cirhere, just responding to Ron's post above it.

But there is a lot of discussion about the inherently inaccurate gas gauges here on the Forum, some with diagrams and pics of the odd tank shape that contributes so much to the issue, AND ALSO that makes it so bloody hard to properly fill your tank!

But as rjinaz mentions above, as with many fuel injected engines these days, the fuel pump (& sender) are immersed in the gas tank, and both the pump and the entire fuel injection system use the gas remaining in the tank as both coolant and lubricant for their extremely fine tolerance components, so you MUST leave enough gas in the tank to keep it all lubricated AND to sufficiently disperse the heat these high speed/high pressure fine tolerance & often PLASTIC components run at!! If you don't, you WILL be damaging those very important components! The bits that make them work & keep your engine running as powerfully and as economically as they can are often running so close together that even just a single molecule of water between them can be too big for them to handle without damage; but luckily that won't cause instant destruction &/or stoppage, or probably more correctly, UNluckily, cos if you try to compress tiny molecules of water under high pressure when there's enough heat around, they'll instantly flash to superheated steam that'll instantly melt any high quality steel the superheated steam comes into contact with, so you can imagine the damage that'll do to plastic!! And while that damage might not cause instant stoppage cos it's microscopic to start with, every time that tiny bit of damage rotates past its opposite component, usually in a marginally different place to the last time it went round, where it'll create even more damage, damage that only grows and ultimately destroys these very critical parts of your bike!

So there's really no solution that anyone but BRP/Can-Am could apply to this issue, but even if they did, it wouldn't ever be back-dated even if it was applicable to the earlier models; and the only safe 'fix' is to NEVER RELY on your gas gauge, cos it's inherently inaccurate & unreliable due to the shape of the tank and the design of the fuel pump & sender!

Bugga! There's ANOTHER 'never'!!

The “lubricity” of gasoline is practically nil. There is no barrier film protection provided by the gasoline to protect against any mechanical wear. Gasoline as a coolant for the pump is a rather dubious statement. When the engine depletes the fuel it and the pump shut off. The operating temperature of the in tank fuel pump is very low and insignificant to create any meltdown of any part. If true, the motorcycle would explode.

I have never seen one of these Spyder fuel tanks, it’s pump or the sending unit to make an accurate statement about its design and limitations. Filling the gas tank with the station pump nozzle is a difficult task with the design of the filler neck and its safety device used in my local area. The fuel gauge seems to read accurately after filling it up in my experience. The distance to empty is a scientific wild ass guess factored by a scientist who evidently got a D in class. Based on my own usage the gauge is at best a suggestion if making repeated regular short trips. I have not had the opportunity yet to make a trip long enough that I needed to stop and refill from total depletion so I don’t know how the fuel gauge performs on a lengthy trip compared to regular commuting. My best advice is for each to learn over time what to expect as it may differ from others use.

[Peter Aawen]

The “lubricity” of gasoline is practically nil. There is no barrier film protection provided by the gasoline to protect against any mechanical wear. Gasoline as a coolant for the pump is a rather dubious statement. When the engine depletes the fuel it and the pump shut off. The operating temperature of the in tank fuel pump is very low and insignificant to create any meltdown of any part. If true, the motorcycle would explode.

I have never seen one of these Spyder fuel tanks, it’s pump or the sending unit to make an accurate statement about its design and limitations. Filling the gas tank with the station pump nozzle is a difficult task with the design of the filler neck and its safety device used in my local area. The fuel gauge seems to read accurately after filling it up in my experience. The distance to empty is a scientific wild ass guess factored by a scientist who evidently got a D in class. Based on my own usage the gauge is at best a suggestion if making repeated regular short trips. I have not had the opportunity yet to make a trip long enough that I needed to stop and refill from total depletion so I don’t know how the fuel gauge performs on a lengthy trip compared to regular commuting. My best advice is for each to learn over time what to expect as it may differ from others use.

Dammit!! That first para above means the whole automotive industry has got it wrong then, and the millions of ICE powered vehicles out there running EFI Engines with fuel pumps immersed in their gas tanks for the very reasons I passed on simply won't work!!

I'll be sure to pass that on.... Sorry.


Oh, BTW, I HAVE seen more than one Spyder gas tank, the pump inside it, and the fuel gauge sending unit; and I HAVE seen the damage that occurs to fuel pumps and injection systems when the remaining gas in the tank gets too low to effectively carry out its task of both cooling and lubricating those components. And, I've also even been lucky enough to discuss & explore this whole concept quite extensively with a bunch of engineers who are amongst the leaders in the game of working at designing, fixing, & improving these things, but what would they know.

But, as I've said before & probably will again, I've just passed on the knowledge; you can either ignore it, laugh at it, or choose to do with it as you will, it's YOUR choice.



Ps: Even water can act as both a coolant and a lubricant in some circumstances, I'd guess that you can probably think of a few. The trick is that whatever you choose to use is readily available and then it just needs to be cooler than whatever is running in it/it needs to ccol; and as a lube, at a molecular level, it needs to fit into the gap between the components that it's intended to keep from contacting/wearing.

[Mikey]

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Dammit!! That first para above means the whole automotive industry has got it wrong then, and the millions of ICE powered vehicles out there running EFI Engines with fuel pumps immersed in their gas tanks for the very reasons I passed on simply won't work!!

I'll be sure to pass that on.... Sorry.


Oh, BTW, I HAVE seen more than one Spyder gas tank, the pump inside it, and the fuel gauge sending unit; and I HAVE seen the damage that occurs to fuel pumps and injection systems when the remaining gas in the tank gets too low to effectively carry out its task of both cooling and lubricating those components. And, I've also even been lucky enough to discuss & explore this whole concept quite extensively with a bunch of engineers who are amongst the leaders in the game of working at designing, fixing, & improving these things, but what would they know.

But, as I've said before & probably will again, I've just passed on the knowledge; you can either ignore it, laugh at it, or choose to do with it as you will, it's YOUR choice.



Ps: Even water can act as both a coolant and a lubricant in some circumstances, I'd guess that you can probably think of a few. The trick is that whatever you choose to use is readily available and then it just needs to be cooler than whatever is running in it/it needs to ccol; and as a lube, at a molecular level, it needs to fit into the gap between the components that it's intended to keep from contacting/wearing.

with Peter 99% .... On the Lubricity thing, I don't think the Fuel pump gets any " lubricity " from the Gas. ... It does Require the gas to help cool it ..... JMHO .... Mike

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I don't necessarily think the gas gauge is that terribly inaccurate! All you have to do is visualize two invisible bars at the top and one invisible bar at the bottom for a total of twelve bars. I find by doing that I generally get about 15 miles or so per bar, top bar to bottom bar. The top visible bar disappears after about 45 miles and when the gas light comes on there are two bars, one visible and one invisible, of gas left for about 30 more miles. And then there's still some left that you don't want to use up or you'll be stranded or suffer the consequences Peter warns about!