Navydad..in regards to your comment for PSA...

[wyliec]

I didn't want to interrupt Slice's thread. Below is your post.

"Surgery in 2018 and follow up radiation in 2019. Radiation in July and August and I was great until the final week and then the fatigue hit me hard. took most of September to get over that and then in October my wife and I left on a five week road trip on our Spyder. I do the check ups. PSA is non detectable as of November and has been for three years. Doing great and living our dream. Guys, get that PSA checked. It's a simple test and may save your life."

First, I'm glad to hear you're cancer free, and I agree with you concerning getting your PSA checked. But, PSA is detectable in all males. There are 4 different age groups. The youngest 40-49 and that goes 0.0-2.0ng/ml and from there the rating goes higher with age. I'm 1.8 at 74. However, when I had prostatitis a few years back it shot up to 23.4, but that did on indicate cancer.

[pidjones]

Yes, be watchful. Mine went into the high 20's lastfall after a bout of prostatitis (hit me two years in a row, while at Barber Vintage Weekend) and was only down to 5 something by December. A month of antibiotics in January to assure bacteria are gone and it is now down around 4. Will have it checked quarterly for a while, now. Prostate cancer is not in my family, but prostatitis and BPH is.

[Tango]

Mine shot up to 6.5, then 6.6. Triggered a biopsy, 12 samples. All negative. It has been mid 3's. New test 4.6. Off to the Urologist Wednesday. NOT! Tom

[wyliec]

Yes, be watchful. Mine went into the high 20's lastfall after a bout of prostatitis (hit me two years in a row, while at Barber Vintage Weekend) and was only down to 5 something by December. A month of antibiotics in January to assure bacteria are gone and it is now down around 4. Will have it checked quarterly for a while, now. Prostate cancer is not in my family, but prostatitis and BPH is.

When you have acute prostatitis you definitely need antibiotics quickly, or it can end badly. After my first bout I went 3 years without any problem, then it struck again.

[Navydad]

While it is true that a high PSA reading is not always an indication of cancer why take that chance? My cancer was on the outside of the prostate up against my bladder. The needle biopsy of 12 samples missed it, the old finger trick couldn't detect it where it was located. The ONLY indication was a PSA of 8.4. My doc insisted we get a scan even though I was reluctant. Guess what? I had cancer. My Gleason score was 4-3=7 with 4 being the dominate number. That indicates an aggressive cancer. If I had blown it off as high PSA due to whatever I wouldn't be typing this now. I know there are other causes for an elevated PSA and because I know that there are other causes I wasn't to eager to look further. Thankfully I had a good and Insistent Doc. PSA above 4? FIND OUT WHY! If doc looks at an x-ray and says hey, what's this spot on your lung? Are you gonna blow it off? No, you're going to get it checked out. PSA elevated? Find out why. It isn't difficult and it may be something else, but why risk it. Prostate cancer is very treatable if caught before it starts spreading. I have buddies that want to argue the issue about their elevated PSA with me quite often and personally if they get checked that's fine, if they don't that's fine too, BUT I've been down that road and I know my elevated PSA was the ONLY indicator I had until we did the scan and an got accurate biopsy. Choice is yours. Find out what your PSA scores means or roll the dice.

[Tango]

I had a CT scan, Ultrasound scan of my testicles, and lower abdomen two years ago. They also did an MRI with and without dye and found nothing. I read where PSA of older men, I'm 70, normal is 4-5. I will know more when soon. Tom

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

My next to oldest brother had an elevated PSA at age 54. The doctor dismissed it as being abnormal, a fluke, a false result. He was too young to have prostate cancer. The next year he was diagnosed with prostate cancer. He battled it for 17 years, an unusually long time. It finally took him out at age 72 after it had metastasized into painful bone cancer.

[2dogs]

PSA and Gleason's scores were both a 7 each 22 years ago when I was 57. Went through proton radiation therapy and I've been holding at .02 ever since. Testing once every year.

[2dogs]

My next to oldest brother had an elevated PSA at age 54. The doctor dismissed it as being abnormal, a fluke, a false result. He was too young to have prostate cancer. The next year he was diagnosed with prostate cancer. He battled it for 17 years, an unusually long time. It finally took him out at age 72 after it had metastasized into painful bone cancer.

Hopefully, that doctor has passed on and is no longer able to misdiagnose people anymore. Sorry for the early inexcusable loss of your brother.

[Navydad]

My next to oldest brother had an elevated PSA at age 54. The doctor dismissed it as being abnormal, a fluke, a false result. He was too young to have prostate cancer. The next year he was diagnosed with prostate cancer. He battled it for 17 years, an unusually long time. It finally took him out at age 72 after it had metastasized into painful bone cancer.

Sorry for your loss.

[wyliec]

While it is true that a high PSA reading is not always an indication of cancer why take that chance? My cancer was on the outside of the prostate up against my bladder. The needle biopsy of 12 samples missed it, the old finger trick couldn't detect it where it was located. The ONLY indication was a PSA of 8.4. My doc insisted we get a scan even though I was reluctant. Guess what? I had cancer. My Gleason score was 4-3=7 with 4 being the dominate number. That indicates an aggressive cancer. If I had blown it off as high PSA due to whatever I wouldn't be typing this now. I know there are other causes for an elevated PSA and because I know that there are other causes I wasn't to eager to look further. Thankfully I had a good and Insistent Doc. PSA above 4? FIND OUT WHY! If doc looks at an x-ray and says hey, what's this spot on your lung? Are you gonna blow it off? No, you're going to get it checked out. PSA elevated? Find out why. It isn't difficult and it may be something else, but why risk it. Prostate cancer is very treatable if caught before it starts spreading. I have buddies that want to argue the issue about their elevated PSA with me quite often and personally if they get checked that's fine, if they don't that's fine too, BUT I've been down that road and I know my elevated PSA was the ONLY indicator I had until we did the scan and an got accurate biopsy. Choice is yours. Find out what your PSA scores means or roll the dice.

I agree with everything you say. I was just curious that the dr. said your PSA was non detectible.


Also, up until just recently the "medical field" felt once you reached 70 it wasn't necessary to check your PSA. Their thinking was you probably had other comorbidities, and you wouldn't gain much vs years left. But, now that thought process has changed b/c people are living longer.

[Navydad]

I agree with everything you say. I was just curious that the dr. said you didn't have a PSA.

Also, up until just recently the "medical field" felt once you reached 70 it wasn't necessary to check your PSA. Their thinking was you probably had other comorbidities, and you wouldn't gain much vs years left. But, now that thought process has changed b/c people are living longer.

No PSA detectable because I have no prostate gland. Prostate-specific antigen (PSA) is a protein produced by normal as well as malignant cells of the prostate gland. I had the prostate removed due to the cancer and my PSA number dropped to near nothing, but after a bit they started to go up. No prostate to create PSA so that meant the cancer, while small, was still somewhere in my body. A new PSA specific scan showed no cancer in my bones or anywhere else for that matter. I underwent what they call salvage radiation in the area where my prostate was with attention to the bladder area where the cancer had been located. That was 2019 and since then my PSA has been non-detectable which is a good thing. So, it's correct that all males have PSA, but not if you don't have a prostate or prostate cancer.

True about living longer and while they usually give the 5 year and 10 year survival stats they are starting to include 20 year survival stats as well because of men living longer. The 20 years stats are quite good by the way. More proof that early detection and treatment work.

[RayBJ]

10 or so years ago I had 'seed implants' when my PSA went 4+ and biopsy found a 'trace' in 1 of the spots. Since then my PSA always comes back .01.

[Bangorbob]

I agree with everything you say. I was just curious that the dr. said your PSA was non detectible.


Also, up until just recently the "medical field" felt once you reached 70 it wasn't necessary to check your PSA. Their thinking was you probably had other comorbidities, and you wouldn't gain much vs years left. But, now that thought process has changed b/c people are living longer.

This is what my urologist said a couple years ago to me about turning 70. He said most men will die with prostate cancer, not because of it. I had a biopsy that didn't go well. All samples came back neg, but I wound up with e-coli in the blood and sepsis. Hard for me to get another biopsy if needed.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I sent a note to my doctor asking that he order a PSA with my next quarterly blood draw in about 4 weeks. It's been many years since I had one. I'm 78 and have diabetes, CAD, high blood pressure, and high cholesterol. All are pretty well controlled but I take a bucket load of meds each day. Here is his response.

A word of caution though is that it is not a very good test for determining prostate cancer [with?] his other conditions. It is not recommended for routine evaluation unless there are specific symptoms. It leads to unnecessary testing and procedures and overall routine screening has not been shown to decrease mortality to men due to prostate cancer. Having said that it is ordered.

The fatalistic take away from his comment is if you're going to die from prostate cancer you're going to die from prostate cancer and there's no way to predict it will or won't happen.

[wyliec]

I sent a note to my doctor asking that he order a PSA with my next quarterly blood draw in about 4 weeks. It's been many years since I had one. I'm 78 and have diabetes, CAD, high blood pressure, and high cholesterol. All are pretty well controlled but I take a bucket load of meds each day. Here is his response.



The fatalistic take away from his comment is if you're going to die from prostate cancer you're going to die from prostate cancer and there's no way to predict it will or won't happen.

I made some comments, and decided to withdraw them.

[pidjones]

This is what my urologist said a couple years ago to me about turning 70. He said most men will die with prostate cancer, not because of it. I had a biopsy that didn't go well. All samples came back neg, but I wound up with e-coli in the blood and sepsis. Hard for me to get another biopsy if needed.

Same here, except I demanded antibiotics as soon as I felt the infection and headed septis off. BTW, that urologist ordered the biopsy without even a digital exam, and wanted to operate when atypical was the finding although PSA was <4. Needless to say, I went to another urologist, who did his own PSA and tracking (and the finger wave, saying it felt normal). That was ~2005. I did have the green light lazer in about 2010 due to BPH, and that is all still good. Just slowly increasing PSA now.

[Navydad]

I sent a note to my doctor asking that he order a PSA with my next quarterly blood draw in about 4 weeks. It's been many years since I had one. I'm 78 and have diabetes, CAD, high blood pressure, and high cholesterol. All are pretty well controlled but I take a bucket load of meds each day. Here is his response.



The fatalistic take away from his comment is if you're going to die from prostate cancer you're going to die from prostate cancer and there's no way to predict it will or won't happen.

One thing you must remember is that every individual is different. My cancer was found at age 63 and I was otherwise healthy. Doc said we need to fix this. He also said if I had been 73 or had health issues he probably wouldn't do much of anything other than monitor or maybe one of the drugs that can retard the cancer growth. At 78 with some issues I bet your doc is thinking the latter. As already stated "many will die with it, not from it." One good thing is that in recent years there has been several breakthroughs on detection and treatments of this cancer. I, like many others that have been down this road, will live with regular checkups and the chance that the cancer will return someday. It is a very slow growing and fickle beast so you never use the word CURED, but I rarely give it any thought. I am 67, my psa non-detectable, and otherwise healthy. I consider myself fortunate and will keep touring with my wonderful wife on our Spyder or solo on my Guzzi.

[2dogs]

I made some comments, and decided to withdraw them.

Yea, me too. And likely for the same reasons.

[Tango]

Just returned from the Urologist. He was not impressed by my 4.7 PSA because of the size of my prostate. LOL He said it was rather large. Also the "Urolift" procedure is out of the question. They put me on "Finasteride" which will start to reduce the size. It will take up to 6 months to take effect. They did another ultrasound which showed my bladder was not empty after giving them a sample to test. So we wait. Tom

[redrazor]

10 or so years ago I had 'seed implants' when my PSA went 4+ and biopsy found a 'trace' in 1 of the spots. Since then my PSA always comes back .01.

Almost identical to my story, Ray! Mine was caught at PSA 4.0. Then biopsies; (positive for cancer), then radio active seed implants. HOWEVER: my bladder shut down completely a week later; and I now have a supra-pubic catheter that goes in my "second belly button" and into my bladder. The tube comes out and is strapped to my thigh with a draincock. I try to empty it every 3-4 hours, with no real inconvenience. I also don't have to get up during the night since I hook up the tube to a 2 liter bag that hangs on my bed frame! No more night trips to the bathroom. LOL I've been living a good life with all of this for almost 4 yrs now! Yearly PSA tests now at .02

Getting Old isn't for sissies they say, but at 76 I'm doing very well. My great wife and my Spyder and my Hot Rod Ford keep me feeling young and happy!

[Bangorbob]

Same here, except I demanded antibiotics as soon as I felt the infection and headed septis off. BTW, that urologist ordered the biopsy without even a digital exam, and wanted to operate when atypical was the finding although PSA was <4. Needless to say, I went to another urologist, who did his own PSA and tracking (and the finger wave, saying it felt normal). That was ~2005. I did have the green light lazer in about 2010 due to BPH, and that is all still good. Just slowly increasing PSA now.

The unfortunate thing for me was the septis came on so fast I didn't know what hit me. I started feeling around 8pm on a thursday night and by friday morning I was basically gone. The ER doctor thanked my wife for calling 911 and got me into the hospital by 630am. Dr said if I would have waited, I wouldn't be here now.
I agree with how serious this stuff can get. Hope all gets well and live a long happy life.

[2dogs]

Bob, you owe your wife dinner and some flowers my man. Glad you're still around. Thank her for all of us out here in spyderlovers world.

[Bangorbob]

I would like to take the opportunity to thank all who have posted on this subject and other medical subjects. It gives the rest of us time to thank our loved ones, friends, and people here for bringing to light and helping others understand medical issues that may or may not affect us.
Again, thanks to all.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Here are three articles that give a good discussion of the value, or lack of, of PSA tests. In short, an elevated PSA, >4.0, MAY be an indicator of POSSIBLE prostate cancer. Only about 25% of men with elevated PSA and who then had a biopsy actually had cancer. Maybe we need to pin our hopes on a new type of cancer test that a friend of mine had done at the Mayo Clinic in Arizona. It hasn't been approved yet by FDA for general use, but supposedly is close. Mayo apparently is using it but the patient has to pay for it. My friend said his doctor at Mayo said it is highly reliable in detecting the presence or propensity (I don't know which), of dozens of different types of cancer.

Here are the articles.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/...le-20110327214

https://www.cancer.gov/types/prostate/psa-fact-sheet

https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-pro...t/pac-20384731