A Message for the Moderators

[ARtraveler]

I note that at the moment, I am the only moderator making a reply.

Let me tell you folks a tale. I am one of the "old fogies" on the site. Have been here since Feb 2010. I am not the oldest, by far, but have a little experience with the site. I have seen many people come and go. Many of the people who quit the site because of complaints, similar to yours, are back, and some are posting every day.

I have purchased and owned seven spyders and have close to 200,000 Spyder miles. I was able to purchase the first Spyder sold to a customer when they became available in Alaska in June of 2008. It was a GS SM5 (yes, a manual). I put a $500 deposit down in October of 2007 after I saw a "what's new" blurb in Cycle Magazine. I have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly with Spyders over the years.

A couple times, even I thought of quitting the site, over many of the same reasons as mentioned above. Turns out, I did not, and I am still here today. I would say that the site is a bit different since active moderators were brought on to the site (Sept 2018 or so). I and one other were brought on in fall of 2018. Others were added shortly thereafter. In short, we had a toxic mess going on at that time. If you think the site is bad now, you ain't seen nothing. Hate posts were rampant in those days.

I would also like to mention that we still have the original staff of moderators that we began with, less two who left for various reasons.

When we tried to do our job, and learned as we went, the haters, and similar could not wait to jump on our every word or actions. I had my head handed to me several times in those days. We received much opposition from the haters and others as we tried to clean up the site. Happily, we have an excellent staff of full time moderators, that work together on all critical decisions. We have NEVER had a major disagreement, and IMO, we all work together well. Each of us have found our "special" niche, and continue to work together.

The site is tamer than it was, and IMO, much better as we move along. Since we have "freedom" to post within the "site rules," and since we deal with the full gamut of participants, we are still going to run into people on the site that will "disagree" or seem to be perpetual complainers. That is where the "ignore" button can come in. Me, I do not use it. I want to see who the "opposition" is and what it is that they are saying. Sometimes things happen "behind the scenes" between the moderators and the "opposition." None of us take lightly the ability to sanction someone, or to outright ban someone. We have developed internal policies on these subjects and they are always subject to internal review. I was given the task to write the first draft of these policies. Refinements were added by others and these are the policies used today. In the early days, I was accused by admin to be quick on the trigger. I am much more mellow these days, but all my actions as well as those of the others on the moderator staff, are all done with the preservation of this site in mind, and keeping it suitable for "family" viewing.

[bigbadbrucie]

ThreeWheels was the first to remind me, and others have since, of a function on this forum that I had totally forgotten about.....the IGNORE list. I have now started using it. Many thanks to all who reminded me of this very handy tool.

[GoNoGo]

Unhappy folks spend much MORE time online sharing their bad experiences throughout the digital world..

..whereas happy folks are spending more time enjoying their hobbies.

[missouriboy]

...you will not find a forum that is all positive, they are just not out there.

Great point!

Any Forum like this is just a microcosm of life itself. Is life itself all positive?

Of course not! So, would a Forum really be honest if it pretended otherwise?

I suppose each of us must find our own answer, and that's perfectly okay, too.

[Pirate]

Im a relative noob to this site and Spyders in general (14 months of ownership). I consider it a wealth of information, not found on the various Spyder facebook sites I frequent. I don't consider the complaints as hating but more of venting frustrations.

[canamjhb]

Bruce, I would never try to talk you into staying on this forum if you are unhappy. That's your choice. It will make little difference to me If you stay or go. We don't know each other. But I will say, as a daily viewer on this forum, when I see your name come up, I have positive thoughts about you and your contributions. There are many others here who fall into that category.

I've been on this forum a few years now and have come to "know" many, many contributors. A lot of them feel like family. I sold my Spyder almost 3 years ago but still hang around here because of that family interaction. And, from time to time, sharing my past Spyder experience may have some value for others. I've gotten on the negative side a time or two and been spanked by the moderators. All of us can and will stray sometimes when emotions overrule sensibilities. Right now, I see a lot of negative posts (like you do) that I believe supply and sprocket issues cause. Guess that's just the world we live in today. The only thing we can count on is change. My best thoughts to you whatever you decide..... Jim

[bigbadbrucie]

Bruce, I would never try to talk you into staying on this forum if you are unhappy. That's your choice. It will make little difference to me If you stay or go. We don't know each other. But I will say, as a daily viewer on this forum, when I see your name come up, I have positive thoughts about you and your contributions. There are many others here who fall into that category.

I've been on this forum a few years now and have come to "know" many, many contributors. A lot of them feel like family. I sold my Spyder almost 3 years ago but still hang around here because of that family interaction. And, from time to time, sharing my past Spyder experience may have some value for others. I've gotten on the negative side a time or two and been spanked by the moderators. All of us can and will stray sometimes when emotions overrule sensibilities. Right now, I see a lot of negative posts (like you do) that I believe supply and sprocket issues cause. Guess that's just the world we live in today. The only thing we can count on is change. My best thoughts to you whatever you decide..... Jim

Thank you cor the kind thoughts...very much appreciated. Atvthe present time, I’m undecided but being reminded of the IGNORE option has made a big difference in my thoughts. Only time alone will tell. Bruce

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

For those of you who may wonder just how active the moderators are I'll share a comment I recently received from one of them when I asked why one member was no longer posting.

I can't tell you or say anything much about specific Mod (or Admin) actions, but if you haven't seen anything untoward in ******'s recent posts, then Thank You, as that means that we (the Mods) have been doing our job properly and in a very timely manner.

UserID's will go grey if a member has enough posts removed for Rule breaches &/or receives sufficient infractions to warrant a Restriction of their Posting Privileges, and it only occurs after repeated breaches of the Forum Rules.

The only time we will know of a moderator's action is when they post about it, or a member is suddenly not a poster any longer. The moderators have made it clear, either in a posting here in the forums, or in a PM to me, that an individual moderator seldom, if ever, takes action against a member on their own. The moderators work together as a team. I don't remember the specifics but I have been a recipient of moderators' wrist slapping!

In the past couple of years there has been a time or two where a poster was, indeed, sanctioned for excessive complaining. I surmise that is what happened when a complaint post suddenly disappeared, or a complaining member was suddenly blocked. Whining and complaining are characteristics of some people. I choose to maybe read them and then let them move on into oblivion.

Rest assured. The moderators are paying attention and keeping control of postings within the bounds of reasonableness.

[trikermutha]

Certain members should remember they are not perfect and accept others the way they are. Lets get real here.

Carry on!

[Cobwebs]

Positive or negative input to a subject is how debate occurs, to remove one or the other is to distort the outcome.

[Saluda]

Yes, Because this was a message meant for the Mods to begin with. There are other ways to contact the Mods other than a post in a public forum. They aren't facts, they are his Opinion.

And that's only your opinion.

[Heisty]

I’m pretty new to the forum. In my short experience I’ve learned a lot, and been exposed to the usual nay-sayers.

Frankly, the similarity between this forum and career from which I retired, is that the positive, helpful, make-your-day folks FAR outnumber the tiresome ones. The difference is that they are much easier to find here!

I had no idea there was an Ignore feature available, but then I don’t need it. Decades ago I learned how to dial in what I wanted to hear and learn….and REALLY tune out that which I thought was either offensive or a waste of my time. Many criticisms are actually valid and get addressed here and that’s great!! That’s how we learn, and share. However, when someone goes overboard (for me) I just hit my personal “Ignore” switch and move on. It would “cost” me too much to leave behind all that’s good about this group.

[Steve W.]

In my time here, I have noticed a few "complaints". Some of them are valid concerns, others could be taken as nit-picking. I have not noticed any kind of trend of who is making these comments.

If the "complaint" is about the Spyder, I think about whether I have noticed that, or even if it applies to my wife's Spyder. I will follow for a bit to see if there is a resolution to the complaint, again, without really noting who is posting.

It's nice that you have found the IGNORE feature, but when I first read YOUR "complaint", I was reminded about a statement I saw in another forum where somebody felt the same way you do (did?). The reply was "This is not an airport, you don't have to announce your departure."

Hopefully you will stick around, I have seen some good stuff coming from your keyboard from time to time.

.

[BajaRon]

I understand where you are coming from. But I do not know of a forum worth being a part of that avoids this issue.

As you can see by my avatar, I've been around awhile. Like everything else in life. This forum has gone through cycles. I think the moderators do a great job with a task much more difficult than it might seem. People will be people. When there is a problem, most look for sympathy and a solution. I would like for them to receive both right here.

Letting everyone have their say, (within reason) is part of what makes America great! But it does come at a cost. I've even had some say negative things about the products I make. But I feel that everyone is entitled to their opinion. As long as they understand that no one is obligated to agree with it. (Including mine!)

I've chosen to stay for the overwhelming number of good people who care and make this forum better. I understand that some decide to leave because of the few who may not fit that mold. But over the years, I've found that most of those end up being a positive addition and another forum member to stay for.

Me? I'm all for doing whatever I can to keep this forum, and our nation, as free as I can. I'm willing to take a hit now and then to preserve it.

[UtahPete]

Yes, Because this was a message meant for the Mods to begin with. There are other ways to contact the Mods other than a post in a public forum. They aren't facts, they are his Opinion.

I don't agree. This is a discussion forum. Why not have a discussion about the forum itself? If it bothers you, well ....

[UtahPete]

I personally feel that legitimate complaints about real issues with BRP, its dealers and products and policies AS THEY AFFECT THE WRITER are or can be, useful.

What gets my dander up is when the writer then draws unfounded conclusions about the likely cause of the issue being complained about and then denigrates management, engineering, or some other group (or even the occupant of the White House).

I guess I should avail myself of the ignore button, rather than push back against the obliviator (which invariably gets me in trouble). But then I would miss out on some interesting stuff.

Oh my, it ain't perfect but I think the benefits of being on this forum outweigh the negatives.

[Cirhere]

I have learned a lot from this site If you don't like it leave who cares the site will continue without you so don't threaten

[Jackhartjr]

Wow, I've not seen any of the issues that the guy is complaining about. It's a very nice site in my opinion!

[USAF]

I don't agree. This is a discussion forum. Why not have a discussion about the forum itself? If it bothers you, well ....

Didnt bother me in the least, You missed the point of the comment completely. Not worth continuing on with.......

[Deanna777]

Since I have been on this site, I have found this site helpful.

I have even helped other spyder owners on this site, by posting/starting threads for the spyder owners that are on this site( the threads that I have started have some very excellent information on them, and of you folks know which thread that is. I am not on this as much because "Life has gotten in the way", I do check the site when I can).

Also, to each his own.

The above is my 2 cents.

Deanna

[safecracker]

I have been on this site since the fall of 2012. I have seen some really smart people leave because of some disagreements. This site has helped me out alot. I hope I have been able to help others out, especially on the V-Twins. This site, like many others have posters come and go. I will be staying. I have pretty thick skin. Not much bothers me. As the old saying goes" Sticks and stones can break your bones but words can not hurt you"..... Bruce

[blacklightning]

Seems bad that someone would start a post complaining about people complaining. As long as it is spyder related, I am good with it. I have been here for quite some time, and have owned 6 spyders. I am glad that everyone is here and treasure input from everyone. Whether it is positive or negative, of if I agree or not. But if someone is unsatisfied with the forum, all I can say is bye. Hope you find what you are looking for. All is good and no hard feelings either way. I joined a year before buying a spyder and the positives and negatives helped me make my decision. All is good either way.

[AeroPilot]

All good comments along the way and although I also feel that we tend to complain too much these days but I try to remember three "truisms" from my working days.

1. Change is inevitable 2. Flexibility is the key to survival 3. Communication is always good.

Even if I may not agree or even like others opinion I can gain information to make decisions and process as I wish.

I have participated on Honda, Harley, and tractor forums and still toss in my 2 cents and enjoy this Spyderlovers forum over the years and find it less abrasive than most. Thanks Moderators!

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

2. Flexibility is the key to survival

My wife complained one time about a change in schedule of some family activities. I told her, "Haven't you figured out after 50 years the key to happiness in this family is flexibility?"

[UtahPete]

I have learned a lot from this site If you don't like it leave who cares the site will continue without you so don't threaten

I disagree with that sentiment. It's American not to accept what we are given, but rather to point out deficiencies in the offering in the hope of making a difference.